PCs and monster feats?

[thepuregamer]

I have posted for awhile and this one thing comes up somewhat frequently.

Is DM permission required for a player to take a monster feat that they meet all the prerequisites for? (any more so than a player to take weapon focus). I understand that many people may think that well, you should run any character idea past a dm. But in that regard, monster feats aren't any different than regular feats.

In the prd at the very top of the monster feats section wrote:

Monster Feats

Most of the following feats apply specifically to monsters, although some player characters might qualify for them (particularly Craft Construct).

It would seem to me that if you meet the prerequisites, then you can take the monster feat. I have not seen any other rules sources that relate to this issue. Developer's posting or otherwise.

but I will see people pop into a thread and post that you particularly need DM permission to take a monster feat. And then they leave the thread satisfied that they have clarified an issue.

Is the DM permission required RAW for taking monster feats or is this a paizo board myth?

[Fozbek]

In a non-Pathfinder Society game, you can take any feat you qualify for, generally. PFS has its own rules about such things (and specifically bans feats from the Bestiary), but if you're not playing a Society game, generally speaking, they're allowed if you meet the prerequisites. All of this is subject to Rule 0, of course.

[thepuregamer]

Fozbek wrote:

In a non-Pathfinder Society game, you can take any feat you qualify for, generally. PFS has its own rules about such things (and specifically bans feats from the Bestiary), but if you're not playing a Society game, generally speaking, they're allowed if you meet the prerequisites.

yeah I get that PFS bans it. But I am more interested in the regular rules.

Quote:

All of this is subject to Rule 0, of course.

On this note, I am trying to convey, that everything is subject to Rule 0. I do not see why monster feats would then need special mention.

[Fozbek]

thepuregamer wrote:

Quote:

All of this is subject to Rule 0, of course.

On this note, I am trying to convey, that everything is subject to Rule 0. I do not see why monster feats would then need special mention.

Some people feel that "monster feats" must only be for monsters, irregardless of the fact that several of them are perfectly reasonable for PCs (such as Craft Construct, Ability Focus, and Flyby Attack). There is no rules justification for disallowing them, save for Rule 0, which as you say applies to everything equally.

[Are]

Part of the reason many disallow them for PCs may be that the 3.5 Monster Manual said "this section includes a number of feats that are typically used only by monsters". Later 3.5 MMs specified that PCs could take the monster feats if they met the prerequisites.

Edit: I don't know what the 3.0 MM said on the matter, but Savage Species (released at the tail end of 3.0) said this: "With your DM's permission, you may be able to choose monstrous feats for your character if your character acquired unusual abilities through transformation or by advancing in a prestige class".

[Magicdealer]

Well, the pathfinder bestiary says this under monster feats:
"Most of the following feats apply specifically to monsters, although some player characters might qualify for them (particularly Craft Construct).

Part of the problem is that there are certain assumptions that go hand-in-hand with monster feats that don't necessarily follow through to pcs.

For example, in previous editions feats that modified spell-like or supernatural abilities only modified naturally gained abilities, not those added through class features. I remember this topic coming up a lot with the warlock in particular.

Personally, most dms I've played with haven't had a problem with players using bestiary feats as long as they followed official errata and what-have-you.

However, that is not true of all dms, so its best to check ahead with your dm before bringing a character to the table that you can't play :)