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The rule on 5-foot steps includes the phrase "You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement."
Does "perform any other kind of movement" include casting spells like dimension door or teleport? What about using the Dimensional Hop ability of the cleric's Travel domain?
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I would say "no".
I see "movement" as a creature taking advantage of one of the movement speeds listed for its creature type. So swimming for sahuagin, flying for dragons, burrowing for...
Even a creature with innate DD or Teleport wouldn't treat those as movement. (Hm, unless that were the creature's ONLY form of movement. In that case, I'd have to consider other details of the creature in question.)
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The rule on 5-foot steps includes the phrase "You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement."
Does "perform any other kind of movement" include casting spells like dimension door or teleport? What about using the Dimensional Hop ability of the cleric's Travel domain?
You'll have to refer to the ability/spell, for clarification, because it will vary. For example, dimension door states:
After using the spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn
So, could a creature take a 5-foot step and cast dimension door? Sure, it's a 5-foot step and a standard action to cast the spell. Could the creature cast the spell and then take a 5-foot step? No, because that's a standard action (first) then followed by the completion of the spell wich prohibits any additional actions until the next turn. The 5-foot step, though a "miscellaneous" action, is still an action. In fact, the creature could even take a full movement action, then cast the spell, but again could not do the same in reverse (caste the spell and then move). As long as the move, or move equivalent action is taken before dimension door is cast, they're golden. Once the spell is completed, their turn ends.
In the case of the cleric's Dimensional Hop ability, the description reads:
...you can teleport up to 10 feet per cleric level per day as a move action. (emphasis mine)
In this case, the ability is specifically a move action, and you cannot take a 5-foot step with any other move action in the same round. So, no 5-foot step in the round that this ability is used, period.
In short, this will vary by scenario and the order in which the actions are taken. In my opinion (that is, not necessarily RAW), if the description of the ability is vague or mum on the function of movement, I would always rule in favor of allowing the 5-foot step. This miscellaneous action should be allowed under most situations unless the ability specifically states that it's not allowed, or the defined actions of the ability (such as the move action in dimensional hop) would specifically prevent the addition of a 5-foot step.
The rule on 5-foot steps includes the phrase "You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement."
Does "perform any other kind of movement" include casting spells like dimension door or teleport? What about using the Dimensional Hop ability of the cleric's Travel domain?
Movement includes things that have an actual movement speed such as walking, burrowing, flying, swimming, and anything I have missed. Magical movement is not movement. There is nothing stopping you from using a mode of movement I just mentioned and then teleporting(such as the teleport spell or dimension door).
PS:With Dimension door you need to remember that if you use DD first you are done for the round.
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In the case of the cleric's Dimensional Hop ability, the description reads:
In this case, the ability is specifically a move action, and you cannot take a 5-foot step with any other move action in the same round. So, no 5-foot step in the round that this ability is used, period.
Uhh... that advice is so far off the mark I can`t believe it.
MOVE ACTIONS (previously known by the clearer name `move-equivalent actions`) don`t prevent 5` steps: ACTUAL MOVEMENT prevents 5` steps. Drawing an item as a Move Action, Using the item as a Standard Action, and taking a 5` step would be the classic example of how 5` steps are supposed to work.--------------------------------------------------------
`Movement` is almost always going to correspond to some `Move Speed` as people say,
but more specifically, `movement` is something that can potentiall provoke AoO`s and implies a CONTINUOUS movement between 2 points on a line. Movement involves MOTION, and thus INERTIA. Movement can be either mundane or magical (e.g. Fly spell). When the game rules talk about movement, they don`t count things like standing up from prone, because that isn`t changing position on a grid/matrix.
Teleportation effects are not continuous movement between two points, you are instantaneously in a new location... In other words, they could be called `instantaneous positional substitution` rather than movement. There is no motion or inertia involved in them.
Thus, 5` steps are compatable with teleportation type effects, though as Concerro notes, Dimension Door ends ALL of your actions after it occurs, INCLUDING 5` steps (and everything else, movement-related or not).
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Uhh... that advice is so far off the mark I can`t believe it.
First off, no need to preface your corrections with a dose of attitude. We're here to help each other. I made one error in my interpretation, but the rest of the advice was sound. So, I'm not so far off the mark in my attempts to help another player...
MOVE ACTIONS (previously known by the clearer name `move-equivalent actions`) don`t prevent 5` steps: ACTUAL MOVEMENT prevents 5` steps. Drawing an item as a Move Action, Using the item as a Standard Action, and taking a 5` step would be the classic example of how 5` steps are supposed to work.
Fair enough, and I stand corrected on the difference between a "move" and a move action. However, since we're going to burrow into the details (pg. 189 Core Rulebook):
Take 5-Foot Step
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.
Italic emphases mine. In this case, the use of the cleric ability or dimension door or any other spell or ability that relocates the creature from one location to another can be considered to have "moved" the creature. Thus, since the creature has moved "any distance" it can no longer take a 5-foot step.
`Movement` is almost always going to correspond to some `Move Speed` as people say,
but more specifically, `movement` is something that can potentiall provoke AoO`s and implies a CONTINUOUS movement between 2 points. Movement involves MOTION, and thus INERTIA. Movement can be either mundane or magical (e.g. Fly spell).
As you said yourself, movement can be mundane or magical. Dimension door and dimensional hop are magical forms of movement, thus prohibiting a 5-foot step.
Teleportation effects are not continuous movement between two points, you are instantaneously in a new location... In other words, they could be called `instantaneous positional substitution` rather than movement. There is no motion or inertia involved in them.
This no longer has anything to do with the rules. It's just your interpretation of what the effects of such spells are. Anyone could reasonably argue (again, with opinion, not RAW) that disappearing from point A and reappearing at point B means the character has moved a distance, thus prohibiting the 5-foot step.
Thus, 5` steps are compatable with teleportation type effects, though as Concerro notes, Dimension Door ends ALL of your actions after it occurs, INCLUDING 5` steps (and everything else, movement-related or not).
Debatable, IMO, and that is how these threads spiral out of control. Discuss.
I high-lighted that one specific error you made because not doing so would be a dis-service to any player trying to understand how the game works from this thread. I wasn`t trying to imply anything else, beyond that the error itself was egregiously misleading. I make mistakes too.
If you want to consider teleportation as `movement`, that means there are a whole host of questions that then crop up: Do you provoke as if moving thru that entire distance? If Teleportation is movement, what part of the rules exempts it from provoking along it`s Line of Effect? Why does the Feat `Teleport Tactician` NOT reference AoO`s from Movement at all, specifically allowing AoOs vs. Teleportation OUT of threat areas which would normally be allowed by your interpreation, along with INTO them (which would be superfluous with Barbarian Unexpected Strike which works on threat entry of ANY type of movement)?
Teleport Tactician (Combat)
You are highly alert for enemies using teleportation to approach you or flee from you.
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Disruptive, Spellbreaker.Benefit: Any creature using a teleportation effect to enter or leave a square threatened by you provokes an attack of opportunity, even if casting defensively or using a supernatural ability.
Since movement can be interrupted, how does a Readied Action vs. your ¨movement¨ entering the destination square play out? I presume recognizing Teleportation as movement thusly prevents using it when Entangled or Grappled, etc... And I suppose if you were paralyzed (barring movement) you couldn`t take advantage of a Silent, Still, Eschewed Teleport spell you had memorized if it counts as `movement`.
Even IF you consider teleportation as movement (with the above complications)
it wouldn`t actually trigger the 5` step/movement mutually exclusive clause,
any more than being Bullrushed by somebody else previous in the round, or by your own spell Bullrushing yourself would:
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement.
It`s clear in saying `when YOU don`t PERFORM` other kind of movement.
It doesn`t say when `when you haven`t changed position in the previous round`.Teleportation or Hydraulic Push use the Cast a Spell Action to trigger their effect, i.e. you are performing the Cast a Spell action. Cast a Spell itself isn`t `performing movement`. The SPELL EFFECT may include moving the target(s), but YOU aren`t PERFORMING that movement, the spell is. Using a Wand isn`t considered different than Casting a Spell yourself, and using a Wand of Hydraulic Push (or a Wind spell strong enough to move yourself around) AGAIN should not count as `you, yourself, performing movement`. Not much different than if an enemy Bullrushed you earlier in the round, which is never interpreted to bar 5` steps. Or if you SUGGESTED the Enemy to Bullrush you. Or if your Summons Bullrushes you because that is known to be it`s automatic mode of attack.
I would say "no".
I see "movement" as a creature taking advantage of one of the movement speeds listed for its creature type. So swimming for sahuagin, flying for dragons, burrowing for...
Even a creature with innate DD or Teleport wouldn't treat those as movement. (Hm, unless that were the creature's ONLY form of movement. In that case, I'd have to consider other details of the creature in question.)
This is how the groups I play with have always played (with the caveat that DDoor immediately ends your turn).
Re: a creature with no other form of movement beyond magical/supernatural translocation, I'm not sure it could take a 5' step, anyway.
Re: a creature with no other form of movement beyond magical/supernatural translocation, I'm not sure it could take a 5' step, anyway.
Right, it can`t because of the following rule:
BTW, @RedWulf: In the games you play where Teleportation is counted as `movement`,
does that mean that a Caster using Quickened Teleportation (or any similar SLA or Su ability)
will provoke for moving away from a threatened square even if they avoided the AoO for Casting while Threatened?