If the school has a dress code (and surely they must) I don't really see a problem with this. The lesson is if you break the rules you get in trouble.
And besides how long is "the rest of the year" in the middle of june?
Is the dress code different for men and women?
If so, isn't that inherently sexist?
I got into this argument over the length of my hair at an old job. My hair was no longer than any of the female employees, yet I was told it had to be cut. Amazingly the dress code was changed only a week after I asked for a copy to show my lawyer.
I have since quit that company for a higher paying one, just so no one makes a "gee I wonder why you don't work there anymore hurr hurr" joke.
A rule stating that women are not allowed to wear slacks and must wear skirts and heels would be in court so fast that the guy writing the rule would think his pen was The Flash, so why would this rule be ok? Local area lawyers should be making some phone calls, I hear cash machines ringing.
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Okay, I have no problem with the mom trying to teach a lesson to a mouthy 15 year old. I have no problem with the school suspending the kid IF there was grounds to do so. I do have a problem with the kid not using his gray matter and figuring out that school may not be the best place to try and make his point.
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If the school has a dress code (and surely they must) I don't really see a problem with this. The lesson is if you break the rules you get in trouble.
And besides how long is "the rest of the year" in the middle of june?
Is the dress code different for men and women?
I did a little digging and here is the school dress code. I suppose that it could be argued that a dude in high heels qualifies as "unsafe footwear." Beyond that I see no reason dress code wise that he would run afoul with the school's fashion po-po.
So if this kid had not been trying to prove a point, you would be totally ok with this discriminatory course of action?
This would be ok if instead he had gotten up this morning and decided "Hey, I'm gonna wear a dress because I feel like it" and got suspended?
If the genders were switched about and a girl was suspended for wearing pants?
Also, I don't know what things are like where other people went to school but I went to a very strict military catholic school and dress code violations meant you went home for the day and told to not do it again, not suspended for a few months and banned from school events. There is a lot more to this story than the "some kid violated school rules and got suspended" that it's made out to be.
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First off I see nothing discriminatiory about the action that the school took. Based on the way the story has been presented, and by all accounts the family was consulted or at least interviewed, this was not normal behavior for this young man. He is not cl;aiming to be transgendered or anything like that, and he is not an immigrant or minority that comes from a culture where men wearing clothing that we might term "a dress" is traditional. He is just a kid trying to prove his mom wrong. He was not asserting that he has a right to wear what he wants to school, and therefore there is no basis for a discrimination claim. You are right about there being more to the story, because the article left out the part where he was given a chance to go home and change with the only penalty being that he would miss part of his classes. Only when he refused did he get suspended, as is school policy. Since this happened last week and the final day of school for the school is June 22nd he would have recieved what amounted to a week suspension.
First off I see nothing discriminatiory about the action that the school took. Based on the way the story has been presented, and by all accounts the family was consulted or at least interviewed, this was not normal behavior for this young man. He is not cl;aiming to be transgendered or anything like that, and he is not an immigrant or minority that comes from a culture where men wearing clothing that we might term "a dress" is traditional. He is just a kid trying to prove his mom wrong. He was not asserting that he has a right to wear what he wants to school, and therefore there is no basis for a discrimination claim. You are right about there being more to the story, because the article left out the part where he was given a chance to go home and change with the only penalty being that he would miss part of his classes. Only when he refused did he get suspended, as is school policy. Since this happened last week and the final day of school for the school is June 22nd he would have recieved what amounted to a week suspension.
So if he were transgendered he could wear it, but because he is not he can't.
You're not sounding less discriminatory here, just sort of confused. Again, switch the genders on this story (Girl suspended for wearing pants to prove father wrong!) and where would it go?
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The boy did not wear the dres to prove his mom wrong, he wore the heels to prove his mom wrong. The dress was all his idea. The school would not have suspended a girl for wearing jeans; a girl wearing jeans is used to illustrate the school dress code. I can understand why some people want to turn this into a discrimination case, but it simply isn't. The simplest answer is that he violated the school dress code by wearing what amounted to dangerous footwear. One example in the dress code is flip flops. Flip flops and high heels have similar risks involved in their wear. In fact, for all we know the school may have suspended girls for wearing heels. There really is no need to turn it into something more.
I did a little digging and here is the school dress code. I suppose that it could be argued that a dude in high heels qualifies as "unsafe footwear." Beyond that I see no reason dress code wise that he would run afoul with the school's fashion po-po.Is the dress code different for men and women?
I think it was a little higher up.
"Clothing which interferes with or distracts from the educational process "
Teachers shouldn't have to put up with kids twisting equality rights to make statements when they are trying to teach. It's the end of the year, it's hard ENOUGH to get the kids to concentrate without Smart-alec Jimmy showing up in a Dress and heels.
There's a difference between 'having a little fun' in school... and purposefully just trying to be a distraction. He definitely should have been sent home.
Multiple day suspension and/or expulsion is a bit much...
Director of Narrative
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I got put in on-campus suspension because I dyed my hair red in 11th grade. They told me I could go home and dye it a natural color, or stay in the locked down suspension room until I corrected the issue. I asked them if they would pay for some dye, because, quite frankly, I didn’t want to pay for some more myself when my family saw nothing wrong with it. They used the generic “it’s disruptive” card, though no one really reacted to it at all and the classes I attended that morning went by just fine. After sitting in detention for an hour, I got up and went home. I shaved my head down to the skin, put on a nice suit, and went back to school. Funny thing, the bald head and suit got way more attention in class than red hair. The best part of the whole thing was sitting in the principal’s office while he called my Mom and listening to her chew him out.
When I was teaching high school, there was a boy who showed up every day in a dress and makeup. I think he did it because the chicks went all ga-ga over it and were always crawling all over him -- and he otherwise didn't have much in the way of personality, outside of that gimmick. No one ever suspended him for it, though, that I know of.
Almost all of these stories, with a notable exception of Kirth's, are good illustrations of my old maxim:
School sucks!
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Director of Narrative
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School kicked ass. I got to play with things (art supplies, science gear, darkrooms, etc) I wouldn’t have had access to, and there were some fine people to teach me all kinds of things; all I had to do was ask. Sure, there was bureaucracy and some evil f*+@s who didn’t care at all about imparting wisdom and knowledge, but part of the process is learning who to pay attention to. School would be a lot better if they actually highlighted that point. Sometimes authority is wrong, and they need to be called on it. Empowering the youth can yield great rewards. You can try and empower some teenage jackass, but it’s not going to work. Just like lectures and unnecessary rules don’t work on those kids. Sure it’s a wasted effort, but in the long run, it’s an investment. Even one or two truly great kids in a class can make up for the remaining apathetic and hopeless ones.
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Almost all of these stories, with a notable exception of Kirth's, are good illustrations of my old maxim:
School sucks!
Public schools seem good at teaching obedience to the state and authority, but they seem to be doing a very poor job teaching kids much else.
I always found public schools intense hostility to critical thinking and individuality disturbing.
I always found public schools intense hostility to critical thinking and individuality disturbing.It's a crucible. The best of us get out mostly unscathed. ;)
Some truth to that, but it also breeds a herd mentality.
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Director of Narrative
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Some truth to that, but it also breeds a herd mentality.I always found public schools intense hostility to critical thinking and individuality disturbing.It's a crucible. The best of us get out mostly unscathed. ;)
I'm not arguing, but life breeds a herd mentality. Look around at stuff that's popular. Look at housing subdivisions where all the little boxes spread as far as the eye can see. Look at the proliferation of chain restaurants and big box stores. Popular pays, apparently. People get nervous when the boat rocks, but nothing spectacular has ever come from keeping the boat on even keel. I dunno. I guess the world needs all types.
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Crossing gender lines (barriers) is dangerous stuff. Especially in established social institutions like school.
I'm actually surprised he didn't get beaten down.
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School is supposed to mold you into a good worker for the workforce. Not feed your happiness.
School is supposed to pound the odd-balls, overly intelligent, naturally creative among our children into line with everyone else, so they look and act like everyone else.
It's probably this process that makes so many people hate school. It's like a prison -- and causes Pink Floyd songs..
Got to give the kid credit for sheer chutzpah (if not so much for common sense).
But if there's nothing in the school dress code about it, suspending him for more than, say, a day or two (much less the rest of the year)? That's bogus.
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Almost all of these stories, with a notable exception of Kirth's, are good illustrations of my old maxim:
School sucks!
Public schools seem good at teaching obedience to the state and authority, but they seem to be doing a very poor job teaching kids much else.
I always found public schools intense hostility to critical thinking and individuality disturbing.
[sarcasm]Take a good look at countrys without a public education system.
Take a good lock at all the nonconformist, self assured individuals there. All the critical thinking going on[sarkasm off]It is knowledge, most importantly a broad education, that enables us to question the system, to question media and to question propaganda. I have yet to see a system without public education providing that knowledge to a wide public. It is true: most public (and I daresay most private) schools don't teach you to critical thinking, but all (some better, some worse) provide you the tools to do so - but you need to dare take them and use them.
No teacher can make you do that.
No school can make you do that.
I've seen students at more then one universtiy that told me Professor A opened their eyes, made them question the establishment yadda, yadda yadda. It didn't take me long to see that they would have followed that Professors mindset everywhere, that they applied critical thinking only where he told them to.
I've seen that more then once, and if I look at history, I see even more examples of that. You cannot teach someone to do the thinking. You can encourage, if you are careful not to overdo it, you can provide tools. That is all.
The system isn't perfect by a long shot. but as long as we don't know a better, working system, we better not break it.
sorry for the rant.
Almost all of these stories, with a notable exception of Kirth's, are good illustrations of my old maxim:
School sucks!
Public schools seem good at teaching obedience to the state and authority, but they seem to be doing a very poor job teaching kids much else.
I always found public schools intense hostility to critical thinking and individuality disturbing.
[sarcasm]Take a good look at countrys without a public education system.
Take a good lock at all the nonconformist, self assured individuals there. All the critical thinking going on[sarkasm off]
The system isn't perfect by a long shot. but as long as we don't know a better, working system, we better not break it.
There is a better system than the mean. That's not the issue. The issue is which system is the government willing to pay for.
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There is a better system than the mean. That's not the issue. The issue is which system is the government willing to pay for.Almost all of these stories, with a notable exception of Kirth's, are good illustrations of my old maxim:
School sucks!
Public schools seem good at teaching obedience to the state and authority, but they seem to be doing a very poor job teaching kids much else.
I always found public schools intense hostility to critical thinking and individuality disturbing.
[sarcasm]Take a good look at countrys without a public education system.
Take a good lock at all the nonconformist, self assured individuals there. All the critical thinking going on[sarkasm off]
The system isn't perfect by a long shot. but as long as we don't know a better, working system, we better not break it.
If the goverment pays for it, they are still public schools. I understood this as a take on public schools per se. Sorry if I was wrong.
Note to self: Next time i'm in high school if I want a day off just wear some rocking high heels.
Important note: I'm 30 now, so going back to High School is highly unlikely
If the goverment pays for it, they are still public schools. I understood this as a take on public schools per se. Sorry if I was wrong.There is a better system than the mean. That's not the issue. The issue is which system is the government willing to pay for.Almost all of these stories, with a notable exception of Kirth's, are good illustrations of my old maxim:
School sucks!
Public schools seem good at teaching obedience to the state and authority, but they seem to be doing a very poor job teaching kids much else.
I always found public schools intense hostility to critical thinking and individuality disturbing.
[sarcasm]Take a good look at countrys without a public education system.
Take a good lock at all the nonconformist, self assured individuals there. All the critical thinking going on[sarkasm off]
The system isn't perfect by a long shot. but as long as we don't know a better, working system, we better not break it.
it is about public schools. we have the schools that the government is willing to pay for. they can be better, but system needs the money to realize it.
Well he was in breach of the school dress code on two counts, so he was in the wrong.
Had the matter been approached a bit more sensibly, he should have simlpy been sent home to change, and given a warning about dressing in line with the guidelines.
Just because he was carrying on like a pork chop didn't mean they needed to do the same.
Poor form that school, poor form.
Reading this, and dear God/Bhudda/Allah/DoubleRainbowofUnicornHappiness let the mother and son be doing this for a lark or to make a point, not to clog an already overworked and overloaded legal system with yet more bogus bullcrap for no other purpose than 15 minutes of fame/Quick Money.
To the people who're saying 'bad parenting' ... I get her claims to not wanting a 'cookie cutter' child. I will be waiting to see if she's still proud of her avant-garde child when the crushing, joy-stealing implacable face of Real Life turns up and chews the child up like so much cotton-candy?
You have the right to do whatever you want, so long as it is not illegal or is otherwise infringing upon other peoples' rights. If he was so determined to have this out with his mother, why not do it after school hours when they would not be affecting other people trying to do their job/get an education?
For the TL:DR crowd, you live in a Democracy, where you are free to suffer the consequences of your own stupidity.
Big facepalm to the School, however. Ban for a day would have been more appropriate, especially since this prank was going on at what I am reading to be end of term. Also 30, and also remember the insanity of hundreds, if not thousands, of teenagers all on the verge of 'freedom'. A full week is definitely not going to do anything more than bring out the rent-a-crowd group protesting over 'freedoms'. Make him sit out in front of the Public wearing a sign with 'Public Nuisance' on it if you want to get sued that badly.
Otherwise just send him home and mark him as absent. When/if the Mother complains, tell her that the whims of her one child do not matter more than the futures of the other youths whose grades will hell determine their ability to enter university and the work-force at a higher level than their peers.
This was also the same man who got the stink-eye from the rest of the public-school teachers at my High School when he told us during a school assembly to go to TAFE first and get the training, then go to TEE (university) and get a degree. He also threatened to come after anyone from his class who 'has such little respect for themselves and the education system to major in a Bachelor of Arts degree.'
He's now 52 and still attempting to bludgeon the Government School System into producing intelligent, varied people with similar educations rather than the perpetually dumbed-down instant-gratification tools that are now being churned out. Point of irony, the Local Government fiddler in charge of that district has tried to get him fired four times. Four times the Parents Board has petitioned to have him reinstated by completely bypassing the State School Board and spam-petitioning the actual Minister. Four times the Parents Board have won over the idiots who are supposedly full-bottles on the latest education methods.
But really, are we expecting Common Sense from a Government-run Institution? What's next, proper moral and fiscal accountability from the Banks, 24/7 access to local Government employees or Big Business taking a short-term loss from their billions of dollar profits to re-gear their enterprises for cleaner, more efficient technology now rather than when it's too late? I mean, really people!
Teachers shouldn't have to put up with kids twisting equality rights to make statements when they are trying to teach. It's the end of the year, it's hard ENOUGH to get the kids to concentrate without Smart-alec Jimmy showing up in a Dress and heels.
There's a difference between 'having a little fun' in school... and purposefully just trying to be a distraction. He definitely should have been sent home.
Multiple day suspension and/or expulsion is a bit much...
Yes, junior high is known for quiet, organized classes, that only get interrupted when one person shows up dressed weird; why aside from that the students are all angels who no I can't continue this even as a joke.
Yes, junior high is known for quiet, organized classes, that only get interrupted when one person shows up dressed weird; why aside from that the students are all angels who no I can't continue this even as a joke.
I'd say more along the lines of the teachers not needing one more idiot trying to be 'cool'.
In other words, additional straw + Camel's back = time for a new camel.
And yes you have to be old to get that one. Shaddup. Lemme alone.
There are certainly fights worth fighting and there are those that aren't. The key is to realize what a situation falls into.
According to a previous poster, the kid was told to change and/or go home for the day, but refused. If that is true, then I have little sympathy for him. Making a statement is one thing, getting yourself suspended for not complying is another.
In the real world, acting like this kid did is going to get you fired in a heart beat or worse arrested (see link). We can all feel those are wrong, but that is how the world is. Acting otherwise is like arguing that the world is flat. Learn to adapt to your environment.
And thank gods for having attended a school (a public school, in a working class, immigrant-rich neighbourhood btw), where walking down to the recreation room in a woman's blouse was met with the reaction of "Why are you wearing that?" followed by "Oh? Cool," when they got the response.
Given the school dress code, I suppose I can see the argument of a dress code violation. Still, a three day suspension is going overboard. If he didn't have a change of clothes with him, then sending him home for the day should have been enough. You'd think they have enough trouble keeping kids in school to want to send them away.
Given the school dress code, I suppose I can see the argument of a dress code violation. Still, a three day suspension is going overboard. If he didn't have a change of clothes with him, then sending him home for the day should have been enough. You'd think they have enough trouble keeping kids in school to want to send them away.
If what David said was true:
You are right about there being more to the story, because the article left out the part where he was given a chance to go home and change with the only penalty being that he would miss part of his classes. Only when he refused did he get suspended, as is school policy. Since this happened last week and the final day of school for the school is June 22nd he would have recieved what amounted to a week suspension.
Then the suspension was probably for insubordination.
Almost all of these stories, with a notable exception of Kirth's, are good illustrations of my old maxim:
School sucks!
Public schools seem good at teaching obedience to the state and authority, but they seem to be doing a very poor job teaching kids much else.
I always found public schools intense hostility to critical thinking and individuality disturbing.
[sarcasm]Take a good look at countrys without a public education system.
Take a good lock at all the nonconformist, self assured individuals there. All the critical thinking going on[sarkasm off]It is knowledge, most importantly a broad education, that enables us to question the system, to question media and to question propaganda. I have yet to see a system without public education providing that knowledge to a wide public. It is true: most public (and I daresay most private) schools don't teach you to critical thinking, but all (some better, some worse) provide you the tools to do so - but you need to dare take them and use them.
No teacher can make you do that.
No school can make you do that.I've seen students at more then one universtiy that told me Professor A opened their eyes, made them question the establishment yadda, yadda yadda. It didn't take me long to see that they would have followed that Professors mindset everywhere, that they applied critical thinking only where he told them to.
I've seen that more then once, and if I look at history, I see even more examples of that. You cannot teach someone to do the thinking. You can encourage, if you are careful not to overdo it, you can provide tools. That is all.
The system isn't perfect by a long shot. but as long as we don't know a better, working system, we better not break it.
sorry for the rant.
I don't see where I said public education should be done away with. I think we should make it suck less. The US leads the world in education spending, but our public education system is simply a failure it is already broken. One doesn't have to ban public education to encourage critical thinking skills and attitudes. It is absurd and destructive to use public education as a tool to repress creativity, expression, and thinking even if this somehow yielded some useful education outcome. We have the worst of all worlds. We have an ineffective, expensive, and repressive education system. The current system is way beyond not perfect; it's very broken already.
When I was in High School there were three cases of men wearing dresses to school:
The first was a guy that had been living as a woman since middle school and after he turn eighteen started the process to have his gender changed. He wore tasteful make-up and dressed in women clothing at all times, not just dresses or skirts, but other clothing cut for women. His parents were to the best of my knowledge supportive and I'm sure that they had to fight tooth and nail that he be allowed to wear women's clothing to school.
One of the guys I was friends with showed up in a dress one day during our senior. A full dress, shoulders to knees. When I asked him why, he told me all the rest of his cloths were dirty, he didn't have time to go to the laundrymat and he didn't want to skip school that day. He was a bit strange all told and I have no doubt that was why he wore a dress to school. He got suspened for a week.
The last was when all of the sports teams decided for senior prank to wear dresses to school. We had football, soccer, lacross, basketball, track, and baseball. So that was a lot of guys in dresses walking around all day. Not a single one got more than a hard look from the school.
Take from that what you will.
As for the United States public education in general: I work in it and while I'm still young enough to have hope, I have to agree that it's pretty damn awful for the most part. We're operating with a school system and structure that was developed during the industrial revolution and refuses to update unless it's dragged kicking and screaming.
That it's in such a terrible state is used more as a tool for personal gain and power than as a rally cry for reform and honest inprovement. Polictical forces stand on it's broken back for reelection and spending while draining it's life blood, parents use it as a excuse for their children's poor behavior, and the teacher's union works to increase their strangle hold.
The worse part for me is that you really have no choice. The setup of the American education system doesn't really allow for true innovation or differences of opinion. "You'll do it this way because we think it's the best way to do it." Yes, it's better than nothing but that's no excuse.
As for the children, I see the school system as a blind metalsmith widely hammering on his anvil. A lot of children are lost as slag, most are simply bent and beaten, but every so often a strong and well forge pieces emerges.
Also, a pet peeve of mine, I'm already paying taxes for the school I shouldn't have to buy cakes or pizzas or raffle tickets or whatever else every month to support it. (Though, I do love those pizzas)
Yet for some reason we all survived with our imaginations intact.
If what David said was true:
You are right about there being more to the story, because the article left out the part where he was given a chance to go home and change with the only penalty being that he would miss part of his classes. Only when he refused did he get suspended, as is school policy. Since this happened last week and the final day of school for the school is June 22nd he would have recieved what amounted to a week suspension.Then the suspension was probably for insubordination.
That's what someone claimed in the comments. No one's confirmed it.
That's what someone claimed in the comments. No one's confirmed it.If what David said was true:
You are right about there being more to the story, because the article left out the part where he was given a chance to go home and change with the only penalty being that he would miss part of his classes. Only when he refused did he get suspended, as is school policy. Since this happened last week and the final day of school for the school is June 22nd he would have recieved what amounted to a week suspension.Then the suspension was probably for insubordination.
Here is another article about the story.
In this article it says:
Now if this article is true, then everyone who said that sending him home was appropriate but not suspending him, will I hope recognize that he wasn't suspended for his clothing choice, but for his insubordinate behavior.
Some truth to that, but it also breeds a herd mentality.I always found public schools intense hostility to critical thinking and individuality disturbing.It's a crucible. The best of us get out mostly unscathed. ;)
As do families, nations, churchs, sports teams, unions, charities, businesses, and military units. We are social animals with strong biological behavioural drivers that push us towards forming social groups which work together and dislike individuals who are not members of said group.
Saying that something breeds herd mentality is redundant, because we are social animals. Herd mentality is our natural state.
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I don't see where I said public education should be done away with. I think we should make it suck less. The US leads the world in education spending, but our public education system is simply a failure it is already broken. One doesn't have to ban public education to encourage critical thinking skills and attitudes. It is absurd and destructive to use public education as a tool to repress creativity, expression, and thinking even if this somehow yielded some useful education outcome. We have the worst of all worlds. We have an ineffective, expensive, and repressive education system. The current system is way beyond not perfect; it's very broken already.
I then humbly ask you to accept my apology. As I wrote, I took your post for something it wasn't, I am sorry. Although I don't blame public schools for the suppression of critical thinking (see my own post above), I agree with you that, if the situation is in fact as ugly as you describe it, the system should be tweaked to improve it.
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Some truth to that, but it also breeds a herd mentality.I always found public schools intense hostility to critical thinking and individuality disturbing.It's a crucible. The best of us get out mostly unscathed. ;)As do families, nations, churchs, sports teams, unions, charities, businesses, and military units. We are social animals with strong biological behavioural drivers that push us towards forming social groups which work together and dislike individuals who are not members of said group.
Saying that something breeds herd mentality is redundant, because we are social animals. Herd mentality is our natural state.
I don't believe I ever suggested that public schools are the only institutions that suppress individuality and encourage conformity in the US. I would think it would go with out saying that there is a broad range of "breeding herd mentality" between and withing the institutions you cite.
I do think it is particularly odious in the case of public schools because attendance is largely compulsory, and funding it is compulsory, and I don't see the systematic repression of expression, creativity, and critical thinking to be very helpful to the learning process. I'm not opposed to discipline, per say, but I don't think discipline should be lazy or capricious.