Without knowing more about either the monsters' builds or the PCs builds, it's hard to say. Things I note:
1) They got to lose 2 of their party in random encounters. This isn't a good sign, as often random encounters are designed to be weaker than the preplanned encounters of an adventure, at least when tables for generating monsters are used.
2) Why do the party members have different levels? The negative levels from death are removable, and you never truly go down a level; you pick up a permanent negative level or two instead. The mix of levels will make encounters more difficult to adjudicate, and since the party had 2 deaths just getting to the 1st designed encounter, it's going to get rougher from there. But even with 2 deaths, plus the vampire beatdown, the fighter's got a level on everyone.
3) No dedicated battlefield controller here, at least that I can see. The party is hurting for lack of a wizard to do that. Summoners can do buffing well, but I don't see how you deal with the battlefield if you're the party, as they're missing access to things like web, glitterdust, and wall spells.
If I were your party, I wouldn't go in until they're fully recovered from the beating they took. Given the 8-10 negative levels the vampires dished out, plus levels from dying, that's going to take time to deal with. Assuming the PCs were revived via raise dead, that's going to take a week if restoration is their go-to spell for level loss abatement. Then they need to figure out how to deal with their problems, such as how to keep the fighter from getting dominated so easily.
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Also, leaving the dungeon is problamatic as the only way in/out that they have found is through a 150' corridor that is magically poisoned (touching the floor, ceiling, or wall triggers a Fort save to avoid d6 CON damage). They aren't fond of the idea of going back out right now.
*big smile* :D
Anywho, the important question is: do the players enjoy the game? Some players love highly-fatal adventures, whereas others prefer a more relaxed, casual game. Ask your players.
There is no "right" or "wrong" with RPGs, as long as your players are happy, everything else is an afterthought.
I would say you're being a bit harsh, but as long as they aren't complaining, I wouldn't be too concerned. I would ask them about it though, as they might not be complaining in fear of you making it worse.
It sounds like they are isolated, which is also a factor. You should take that into account. In such isolated situations, I'd avoid random encounters more than CR + 1 or CR + 2. They have no way to replenish their supplies, which makes things harder.
Definitely ask the players what they think. I personally dislike 'easy' adventures as much as I dislike 'impossible' adventures. It's a good group of players that are able to work to the balance between the two. It's a Great GM that is willing to make the group play well together :)
Good luck and I don't think the PCs were unfairly 'abused.' Sometimes it's just bum luck.
GNOME
Hmm, I wonder how optimized your group is. A 6 member party of mostly 9th level and 1 10th level should have been able to take the 2 powered down vampires (without their gear). Was it poor rolling on their part? Or where they unprepared? Maybe the dont have level appropriate gear? That really starts to show through at mid levels.
Just popping in to let you know that the vampires could have dominated a new person every standard action. I think your party actually TPKd.
That said, they should be able to take a CR11 encounter no problem. It's honestly not your fault they didn't have magic circle against evil or protection against evil handy to put on the fighter.
It sounds like you were giving him saves when the vampires gave him orders that contradicted his nature, so, again, not your fault he can't roll above 10 with a +2, likely 3 times in a row.
So, saying that, remember that, well... your PCs may not be as 'game savvy' as your encounters are suggesting they should be. I've had people in groups that had no concept of tactics whatsoever-- the moment the combat mat came out, they would cross it in what seemed like an attempt to get to the other side and get surrounded as quick as possible. I've had people who used cantrips and crossbows when they had level 3 spells. I've seen rangers focus-fire mobs that had four people in melee combat with it while ignoring targets that had no one near it.
You might want to tell your PCs to be more tactical and play smarter. Or, you might want to play dumber and less tactical on your end, if that's the case.
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They have a decent amount of gear, but are far behind the recommended wealth by level. I did this on purpose, magic is supposed to be very rare in this setting (the PCs are, of course, exceptional). Most of their magic gear was crafted by the party and/or looted off some of the more powerful enemies they have faced. To help offset this loss of power I remove most or all of the magic items from the enemies they face-the vampires had no gear partially for that reason and partially to help them lure the party into lowering their guard. They didn't roll too badly, except for the fighter's will saves versus domination (he didn't roll over a 10). The main problem was that, with the fighter working for the vampires, it was very difficult for anyone else to do enough damage to break their DR.
Actually, if they are far behind the recommended wealth by level, then they really don't have a decent amount of gear. If you want to run a game where magic is rare, and the players have less than the recommended gear, then you need to expect them to have more difficulty with encounters that are a higher CR (or in some cases, even a CR equal to their own). Also, while the monsters have less gear as well, they often have less need of their gear than the players do. A vampire without gear can still drain levels and dominate opponents, and players with less gear are going to have lower saves (so less likely to resist Dominate) and lower armor class (so easier to hit with a slam attack for Energy Drain). Also, I suspect that a party that was equipped with gear equivalent to their level would also have had an easier time overcoming the vampires DR. So, it kind of seems to me that you've set them up to fail, although others may disagree.
I think that you need to adjust encounters so that they are tailored to the changes you've made to standard Pathfinder ruleset, which assumes that PCs will have access to level-equivalent gear. If they don't, if magic is rare, they're going to have a much harder time with things like DR (not to mention SOS/SOD abilities that they can't save against as well). I mean, really, just how likely was that ill-equipped Fighter to make a DC 22 Will save (or a pair of them back-to-back, for that matter). Although, maybe you lowered the Will save to compensate.
Lastly, I'm not a fan of random encounters. I like challenging encounters that are tailored to the strengths and weaknesses of a party, and you don't really get that with random encounters, because they're...well...random.
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Sorry, I was left with the impression that the party had much less in the way of equipment.
It sounds as though the PCs were foolish for not crafting Cloaks of Resistance (hell, they're dirt cheap).
Also, if I were the Fighter in a low-magic game, I would have spent one of my many feats on Iron Will. If the Fighter had a 12 Wisdom, +3 Cloak of Resistance (crafted for 4500 gp), and Iron Will, his Will Save would be +9, or +13 when given an order against his nature, and while under Protection from Evil. That might have significantly changed the encounter.
And that Oracle probably wishes that he'd learned Death Ward as a spell known.
Did the Summoner or the Oracle know Dispel Magic, at least?
I guess this just goes to style of play, but I'm much more defensively-minded as a player. I tend to try to cover my (and the party's) defensive holes before finding yet another way to kill things.
And one of those players really needs to replace their dead PC with a Wizard or Sorcerer...
In answer to your question about re-tooling encounters...whatever the reason for the high level of recent PC fatalities in your game, the players probably need to have the encounters toned down, or you're going to see more of the same. Maybe they need to work better as a team? Maybe they need a different mix of classes in the group? Until they figure out what they do need, it might be better to go a little easy for the next session or two.
I'm not saying give the players a cakewalk. I'm saying just let up a little.
Lastly, in the low-magic games that I've played in, we always did much better against CR-appropriate humanoid opponents (especially encounters with relatively few casters). Fewer weird abilities for us to contend with without always having the appropriate defense, I suppose. The Fighter having a +4 Will save (whatever the reason) should be a bit of a wake up call as to the party's fragility.
9th level character cast a cantrip over and over again instead of engaging in melee combat where they likely excel or trying to stop the fighter... reactive healing... buffing their pet instead of battlefield control
I've had people who used cantrips and crossbows when they had level 3 spells.
It's not you. Your PCs are just very bad tactically.
If most of the party is having problems with a vampire's DR, then that glabrezu will be no picnic. And that thing's modified BAB will let it rip right through an AC 28 without nearly as much trouble as the vampires, which means it could do a truckload of damage just in melee if it so desires.
Lathiira: I have a plan to help with that. There are one or two weapons hidden in the dungeon that will bypass the Glabrezu's DR. Also, the tactics I wrote for it should help lessen its impact a little bit (basically, it starts out as very overconfidant and more or less plays with the PCs until they hurt it significantly).
I hope they find them then. That's one potential problem. Also hope you play gently really well, because that thing's +20 BAB and rend let it tear one of my characters in half who was underequipped for her level at 17th level or thereabouts after 2 rounds or so of battle with minions. I might suggest it summons demons and teleports away instead of engaging them, as it's hp total will keep even the fighter busy if he can hit it bypassing DR.
I'd encourage the PCs to divide up the stuff their dead comrades left behind to give them a boost in power, assuming they can get some use out of that stuff. I'd also treat the party as if they were 9th level on average despite their greater numbers, as the reduced amount of magical wealth offsets that numerical advantage, especially with a new player in the group. I'd also look carefully at the loot in the next few encounters and adjust it to things they could use based on their performance in the last few battles. Sounds like saving throws are a problem as well as weaponry to bypass DR. A wand of align weapon with a few charges in it could serve as a useful hint to the party about one of their priorities, for example.
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gran rey de los mono: you're right. The vampire's Dominate ability is supernatural, not spell-like, so it can't be dispelled.
The Glabrezu will likely lead to a TPK. Bear in mind that he has several ways to lock down the Fighter without even engaging him in melee. Reverse Gravity will hose most characters who can't fly (unless they rely on ranged attacks). Also, Confusion will hose the Fighter and the party every bit as much as the Vampire's Dominate ability (especially since it can affect several party members at once and doesn't allow subsequent saves).
Also, while you could dispel a Glabrezu's spell-like abilities, he'll be CL 14.
Any character he engages in melee, he's likely to kill. If the vampires hit enough times to drain 8 levels, I'm guessing that most of the party is sitting in the low 20s for AC. The Glabrezu's melee attacks are all at +20. If he hits with every attack with a full round, he's going to do an average 80 damage without crits (120 damage with Power Attack, although he'll only be at a +16 then).
Even if you hand the party a few weapons that can bypass his DR, you're only going to wind up with a one two PCs who actually have an impact on the combat. Plus, he can delay having to deal with those one or two weapons, since he has Mirror Image at will.
I think you need to reconsider that encounter, especially given everything you've told us about the party.
So in the last 4 weeks, I have managed to kill 3 PCs (1 10th level and 2 9th level) and seriously injure several others (stat damage and/or negative levels). Two of the deaths were caused by random encounters travelling to the real adventure, and the third occured about 1/4 of the way through the dungeon. I don't think I am throwing encounters at them that are too difficult, but maybe I am wrong.
To use last night as an example, the party (10th level Fighter, 9th level Oracle, 9th level Summoner, 9th level Monk, 9th level Fighter/Rogue, and 9th level Inquisitor/Ranger) only had one encounter, two Vampires (I used the example ones in the Bestiary, only removed all of their magical equipment and adjusted stats/DCs accordingly). I Dominated the Fighter, had her 'kill' the Summoner's Eidolon, and then kill (as in -40HP) the Monk. I also dealt out 8 or 10 total negative levels and hit the party with 4 or 5 fireballs. The party had about 95% of their spells and such before the encounter, and used a large percentage of them during and after the fight, particularly healing spells. Now they are faced with the option of continuing on without the Eidolon-their 2nd best melee combatant-or waiting until the next day so the Summoner can call his Eidolon again (it is well before noon for the PCs, around 8am). This was the first real encounter of the dungeon, more encounters of roughly the same CR await them in the next few rooms.
I guess my question is this: Do I need to rework my encounters to lower the CRs (most are in the CR 8 to 10 range), or do I just let them struggle through as best they can?
What madness is this? The party has an APL of 11 and they were drubbed by two gearless vampire sorceresses? HAH! I say, HAH! /tongue now removed from cheek
They have (well, had) two divine casters. The results will require rest and re-preparation forthwith. Let us hope that they do not have a doomsday clock ticking. ;)
Now that they have some idea of what they're dealing with, they will most likely come in loaded for bear. That the inquisitor and oracle don't have a simple protection from evil ready to toss on their weak-minded companions is rather their own fault I think.
If they press forward ... kill 'em, kill 'em all. Just don't do it arbitrarily, rather within the framework of what's there.
They'd best hope that they did not sound an alarm...
By the by, protection from evil and its ilk prevent the exercise of mental control, such as dominate person. The fighter should have been free and clear to carve the blood-sucking hussies up like so much sushi.
Well, at least until they dispelled it... :)
By the by, protection from evil and its ilk prevent the exercise of mental control, such as dominate person. The fighter should have been free and clear to carve the blood-sucking hussies up like so much sushi.
Well, at least until they dispelled it... :)
It makes them immune to further attempts to exercise mental control, and a +2 save against an effect that's on them right then.
The real question is why the oracle doesn't have magic circle against evil and why they don't cast it on themselves and another party member before they go into dungeons. It lasts 90 minutes, it's a buff you put on to protect you.
As an aside, the new player who's never played the game before is playing a kobold multiclass ranged weapon using semicaster with spell-like abilities who has multiple bonuses in specific areas and against specific foes? Wow. Did someone make that for him, or did he sit down with the concept in mind to make the most complex character possible?
He has to track:
His domain, its uses per day and what it does
Judgments, what each one does, how many uses per day it has
Rounds of bane, and know what creature type each creature is
How each knowledge skill interacts with each creature type, and in your game, if it's appropriate to spend a round playing the jug and stomping and thinking about what the monster does
Divine spells from Inquisitor and what they do
Divine spells from Ranger and what they do
Discern lies and its uses per day, when it's appropriate to use it
Teamwork feats, if they apply, when they apply, which ones to swap to in specific situations
His favored enemy and if he's fighting it, and all the bonuses he gets against that creature-- no one will remind him gets a +2 bonus to bluff, for example, so he has to track this himself
His favored terrain, if he's in it, and all the bonuses he gets while in it-- no one will remind him he gets a +2 bonus to stealth, for example, so he has to track this himself
Meanwhile, let's say like, a fighter has to track:
Is power attack on
This is all in addition to things like when to leave ranged to get in flank, his feat choices, how to get away from creatures that are threatening him, how fast he's moving, shooting into melee, prioritizing ranged targets, and maybe directing a pet if he's 5/4 split (though I think he's 6/3).
It's kind of no wonder he got confus and decided to bust cantrips.
But like I said earlier, what you are throwing at them is level appropriate if they had magic items (and it sounds like they do). They're just not as tactically minded as they could be to make these encounters not extremely hard. You could take them through some easier encounters, and tell them to be much more tactically minded in the future, and you'd probably be able to play the kind of fights you want once the PCs have learned to excel at difficult combats.