RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32
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So, I am preparing this encounter from "Racing to Ruin" and I just don't get it. Maybe it's cause i am working from wrong assumptions.
So Nkechi takes the characters on a spirit quest where they are turned in to animals (as per beast shape II). I assumed that the character's stats get modified as the spell and then those stats are placed into the animal as a replacement for the default stats of the animal. The beast shape II gives them access to a number of abilities of that animal. I also assumed that the characters, for combat later against the dream snake, have to use the animal's attacks and abilities against the dream snake.
However, a hawk's CR is 1/3. Seems underpowered. Especially against a CR 6 snake. The other CRs of the possible forms are equally weak, with the exception of the elephant, which is a huge creature (and thus shouldn't be possible with [i]beast shape II[i].
Also, spellcasters... can they cast spells in the dream world? Or are they limited by the fact that their animal form doesn't have opposable thumbs or access to the spell component pouch? (actually I was planning on letting spellcaster cast spells as normal, hand-waving the need for somatic and material component.)
Any suggestions? Explanations? How did y'all run this encounter?
My hunch: You are misreading the beast shape rules. The only effects are natural attacks and adding some minor ability changes. Remember that the ONLY change to the PC's stats are the ones mentioned in the text. To us our group as an example: This means that even as a hawk with two 1d4 claws, our barbarian has str 18 while raging (20 normally, -2 from hawk), so he'll be doing 1d4+4 damage on two attacks (with no multiple attacks-minuses) This is opposed to the 1d10+7 he would normally do. That's not great, but it doesn't means he automatically out.
As for the spellcasting, I would go hardline RAW and say that the wizards can't cast spells, or give them a hard Concentration check. Worst case I would tone down the snake's deadliness. That's entirely flavor, though, since I like the though of spirit animal doing animal stuff, not casting spells. If a druid (or a polymorphing-based wizard) has the feat for it, though, I would let him. But if you want to be FAIR, then let the casters cast (even maybe fudge the rolls and let them become monkeys or apes? They have hands...)
As far as the elephant goes, I would say the PC becomes Large and gets a 2d6 gore and 1d8 stomp (that's still a pretty wicked beast shape). Note that he does NOT gain trample (as per Beast Shape II).
EDIT: It looks like the elephant has natural attacks that are one size bigger than the norm, so I wouldn't say it's not wrong to say that the PC gets a 1d8 gore and 1d6 stomp as by "natural attacks by size" in the PRD since he's not supposed to get "standard elephant" (again, still a pretty rad beast shape).
I plan on using this as a bit of foreshadowing.
When the PCs fight the snake, there will be other animals watching, shadowy and faded. I plan on hitting the players hard and will make it a dream TPK if I can, but, if any of the players try to get the other animals to help, then the snake will be shredded, even if most of the PCs die.
I plan on hitting the players hard and will make it a dream TPK if I can ...
I think you underestimate the damage potential of a beastshape fighter, ranger, paladin or barbarian (I assue you have of them). If the PC gets a good shape or just rages/smites/fav'enemies, they can still do decent damage. I have no illusions about the deadliness of the Hawk Barbarian. And the Elephant Paladin would knock the socks off any kind of monster.
I think you underestimate the damage potential of a beastshape fighter, ranger, paladin or barbarian (I assue you have of them).
As the PCs will have fought one serpent folk so far, I will have the serpent know a few things about the group, and will likely plan attacks to maximize the serpent's attacks (taking out weaker members first, like the mages and bards, poisoning and moving away, etc.
And my current group of PCs don't have a paladin or barbarian, so I am safe from that aspect :)
I ran this encounter a few days ago without making any adjustments to it and my group loved it anyways. I don't see the need to forcefully TPK just to make a point, the message came across just as well by simply letting Nkechi interpret the encounter and foreshadow great obstacles and formidable opponents.
Just saying, some players might take offense if the GM forces a predetermined outcome of an encounter, be it a spiritual or a real one.
I ran this encounter just the other day and if anything I found that it was very easy.
The party's Inquisitor and Guide Ranger used Bane and Ranger's Focus + Power Attack respectively. Since the npc who started the spirit form thing was able to talk while in his crab form, I let the party's wordcaster sorcerer cast spells by using the careful metaword (making them still spells, and he already doesn't need materials). The witch had gotten a cat form and got several hits when she pounced. In the end, the snake died in a single round without landing a single hit.
I am in no way saying that I will "force" a TPK, but I will not pull any punches.
Also, if the players get to use beast shape II for their characters, then so will the serpent folk character that they will be fighting, along with a possible boost, to make the encounter very challenging.
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To me this encounter was more a story piece to remind the players of the snakes element of the AP and hint at whats to come. I'd focus on the bit the says about how NKechi foreshadows the unveiling of the ruins of a forgotten city from ancient folklore. I had him journey through a thick cloud and float above a city the glittered as if it was made of pure gold. Around the city they could see several forces coming towards it. One an army of mantis, one a legion of sea vermin (crabs and the like), one of gold coins, etc (basically things that could represent the different factions). As the group floats across towards the center of the city the clouds get darker and lightening crackles around them. They see a deep dark pit and its from out of there that the snake comes.
To me thats what this part is really intended to be. Its the set up for the rest of book 2 and a hint at whats to come in the AP. I don't think its intended to challenge the PCs or become a tough combat. I think that the combat bit of this part is just there to give it a bit of action. There's no risk of character death so I handled it lightly and tried to make it a different and give it a bit of uniqueness.
I went off script a bit and stepped outside the rules by ignoring the whole beast shape II bit. I just gave PCs AC 12+Dex/Wis (their choice) and for their attacks just gave them the respective animal's type of attack (eg: slam, claw, talon, whatever). For that attack rolls they used their base attack, but could choose to use their INT/STR bonus to attack and damage. Made their damage d6 or d4 depending on the size of the animal. Other than that PCs still had the same hit points, saves, skills, feats and initiative bonuses. It just made things a bit more interesting and different while still being simple and easy to do on the fly. Plus saves having to flip through books and mess about readjusting stats, attacks, etc.
I'd also recommend being prepared for player creativity. One of my guys was a peacock (he's a bard) so I allowed him to make a dazzling display with his feathers even though he doesn't have the feat. The monkey spent a round flinging dung at it to distract it so I gave the snake a -2 penalty on its next attack. Small things that the players did because they were in the moment so I wanted to encourage that by giving them a benefit for it. The guys enjoyed it and took the combat on with a creative mindset which made it fun.
BQ, that's a great foreshadowing idea with the converging armies of stuff! Consider it "borrowed".
I agree that suddenly figuring out the stat-changed for the PCs will be a pain. Saying "you all get beast shape II" to my group will bring the proceedings to a screeching halt for about 30mins while they figure out their stats, which they will use for just one encounter. I intend to let them roll for spirit-animal beforehand, so that I can set up the stat changes and maybe tweak it a bit before beginning (if one gets elephant, for example). We also have a wannabe dragon disciple in our group, I'm going to think about how to incorporate that into the whole "spirit form" arrangement.
For the beast shape change, I will ask the players ahead of time for a copy of the character sheets, so that I can make the changes ahead of time.
I will make the necessary changes to their sheets, provide them with a word sheet with their character and with their animal form as a watermark. Something a little bit different for them to keep.
For the beast shape change, I will ask the players ahead of time for a copy of the character sheets, so that I can make the changes ahead of time.
I will make the necessary changes to their sheets, provide them with a word sheet with their character and with their animal form as a watermark. Something a little bit different for them to keep.
had this last night
our monk (cheetah) and barbarian (dire rat) utterly annilated the serpent
monk kept high AC and as the barbar could rage
my witch (hyena) is utterly hopeless, as she couldnt use hexes (well thats what we ruled)...despite cackle fitting nicely
i quite liked the scene, and maybe we can totem shape again at some point
I agree that suddenly figuring out the stat-changed for the PCs will be a pain. Saying "you all get beast shape II" to my group will bring the proceedings to a screeching halt for about 30mins while they figure out their stats, which they will use for just one encounter.
yep, it did kill the session for a combat that didnt last a round
I am running this encounter this weekend. Right now I am going through and making up a 3x5 card for each animal that details the changes to the characters. I am assuming that while under beast shape, you retain your attributes, skills, feats and Saves, whole gaining the animals senses (darkvision, etc), attacks (but using your own BAB + Str to hit, including a bonus or penalty to damage for size and damage), armor class (but using your dex + natural armor +/1 size, + magic), and some special attacks. So when they get their animal spirit guide, they get the card which should be fairly simple for them to calculate their new stats.
I'm not sure if that is how the spell works, but that is how I am working it for this situation.