Hi all,
I started yesterday Harrowstone with 6 players using characters with 20 Points Buy (high Fantasy):
Monk, Cleric, Paladin, Rouge, Wizard, Sorcerer
Now..they just swatted away the Goons from the Burial (the monk disarming them mostly and the Paladin punching them out) in 3 rounds. The wizard already cracked some very tough research items...and that’s just the first day after the burial....
I went today and added up all the XP's that the PC could get in Ravengro and I end up with 8070 -> 1345 per PC using the Medium Path that’s not enough for 2nd level.
Adding up all XP's in Harrowstone (like ALL) I get to 24270->4038 ppc. This would make players just 3th level when they are finished
I'm a bit unsure if this means that either the Adventure will be TOO easy for them or if they venture into Harrowstone with 1st they just get owned.
So my Question;
Should I up the challenges (more Monsters), use the FAST XP track or just go along with it. I tend to either the first or the last options.
What’s your call?
Hi all,
I started yesterday Harrowstone with 6 players using characters with 20 Points Buy (high Fantasy):
Monk, Cleric, Paladin, Rouge, Wizard, SorcererNow..they just swatted away the Goons from the Burial (the monk disarming them mostly and the Paladin punching them out) in 3 rounds. The wizard already cracked some very tough research items...and that’s just the first day after the burial....
I went today and added up all the XP's that the PC could get in Ravengro and I end up with 8070 -> 1345 per PC using the Medium Path that’s not enough for 2nd level.
Adding up all XP's in Harrowstone (like ALL) I get to 24270->4038 ppc. This would make players just 3th level when they are finished
I'm a bit unsure if this means that either the Adventure will be TOO easy for them or if they venture into Harrowstone with 1st they just get owned.So my Question;
Should I up the challenges (more Monsters), use the FAST XP track or just go along with it. I tend to either the first or the last options.
What’s your call?
I would leave it as-is, with the caveat that you might need to do some on-the-fly adjustments if things get way too tough (eg: knock a few hit points off the bad guys, drop the DCs for their saves, etc). In general, though, XP vs. Party Numbers is pretty self-correcting. A group of six players may not get as much XP each as designed, but the fact that there is six balances this out.
The only time it can be a problem is if there is something specific required of the higher level "dungeon" - such as the necessity for casting 3rd level spells, for example. In that case, I'd add in an encounter or two to "bump" them up to the required level...but only just! :)
IMO you should definitely up the CR as per the Pathfinder rules for all the encounters. Next, (though it may be too late from what you implied in your post) I'd up the xp reward for each of the research things by 50% (so multiply the value by 1.5). And finally imo even if the PC rolls a 25 on a research (say, Harrowstone research) I definitely would not reward them all the research up to their roll. The way I'm doing it I merely give them the lowest DC reward. So like for instance, on the first roll my guys rolled 21 and I gave them only the DC10 one. Next time they had to beat 15.
Btw, I'm also running a 6 player group, and I'm doing all of the above. But I'm also not using high fantasy point buy and my PCs spent skills/feats on roleplaying bits which gimps them somewhat.
Good luck!
...up the xp reward ...rolls a 25 on a research ...
Yeah..I actually didnt ment uping the XP's they get but getting more Monsters on the playing field. In regards to the research I actually did the same as you.
As a DM I prefer Roleplaying and I give rewards for that, thats why I relly like Carrion Crown cause it gives me enought Rollplay opportunities.I'm normaly Combat light in my Adventures so I was looking FW to give the PC's finaly some Combat challenges...I properly mix in the Porfessor inviting some of his new firends to a house party :)
Nothing better then a good Zombie/Skeleton home invation. That should see them to 2nd level and I let them run from their into Harrowstone....
...up the xp reward ...rolls a 25 on a research ...
Yeah..I actually didnt ment uping the XP's they get but getting more Monsters on the playing field. In regards to the research I actually did the same as you.
As a DM I prefer Roleplaying and I give rewards for that, thats why I relly like Carrion Crown cause it gives me enought Rollplay opportunities.
I'm normaly Combat light in my Adventures so I was looking FW to give the PC's finaly some Combat challenges...I properly mix in the Porfessor inviting some of his new firends to a house party :)
Nothing better then a good Zombie/Skeleton home invation. That should see them to 2nd level and I let them run from their into Harrowstone....
The AP is balanced for 4 players and 15 point buy, so if you are running 6 pcs you will definitely want to scale encounters a bit. That being said, skills and RP are very important in this AP, so be sure you have at least one face character and all the skill basics are covered. The suggested skills in the players guide give good clues as to what is useful.
The problem with upping CRs, however, is that the issue will continue all the way through the game. If you leave it as-is, then the first few encounters will be a little easier, but the later encounters (which are designed for, say, 4 players of Level 3) will even themselves out (as they'll be hit by, say, 6 players of Level 2), because the XP from those earier, easier encounters will be spread among 6 characters, meaning each character is getting 33% less XP.
The problem with upping CRs, however, is that the issue will continue all the way through the game. If you leave it as-is, then the first few encounters will be a little easier, but the later encounters (which are designed for, say, 4 players of Level 3) will even themselves out (as they'll be hit by, say, 6 players of Level 2), because the XP from those earier, easier encounters will be spread among 6 characters, meaning each character is getting 33% less XP.
After boss chracters get so far above the PC's the PC's just can't win without GM help. 4 level X PC's won't be the same as 6 level Y PC's.
It is worth it and not all that difficult to increase the CR in order to keep things even.
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I actually got rid of XP when running APs. Each adventure suggests what level the PCs should be at each point. I tell my player to level their character each time we reach the next point in the adventure. It has really made things easy. I don't have to worry about adding more encounters and I still make the boss monsters a little tougher.
I actually got rid of XP when running APs. Each adventure suggests what level the PCs should be at each point. I tell my player to level their character each time we reach the next point in the adventure. It has really made things easy. I don't have to worry about adding more encounters and I still make the boss monsters a little tougher.
Fascinating! Have you run Carrion Crown and, if so, could you tell me at what various points you have had the players level up?
I would love to hear other GMs comment on this suggestion. It would be a nice simplification to not worry about XP, and I don't immediately see major downsides. I could see it benefiting lazy players who zoom through an adventure through the path of least resistance and avoiding encounters, but I'm not worried about this in my group -- especially because I wouldn't let them know I wasn't counting XP...
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I ran the first two adventures of Curse of the Crimson Throne on weekends, before work and life got in the way. My players loved it.
We started a new game on Tuesdays with a few different players which is now an Age of Worms campaign run by someone else. He is doing the same thing. No XP just we just level our characters when he feels we need to.
In my opinion as a player and a GM I love it. There isn't a grind to get XP to level up. Our Age of Worms campaign will probably finish up by August, which is when I plan on starting Carrion Crown. Here's an estimate of how I'm going to level the PCs for Haunting of Harrowstone:
Part One: 1st Level
Part Two and Three: 2nd Level
Part Four: 3rd Level
End: 4th Level
Since I'm not sure how it will it play out. It will be flexible. If I find that the PCs are having a hard time. I will tell them to level their characters for the next session.
...
I like the Idea. I used to do that too, but never thought of using it in a pre-writen campain...
Using you methode i could up the Mosnters etc....hmmmm..worth an go.
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Our Carrion Crown campaign started with 5 players and is now up to 6.
The first thing we did was eliminate XP. I tell them when the level up. It works quite well.
I too found the encounters to be rather easy, but until we added the 6th player I wasn't worried about it enough to increase the challenges. Now that we have a 6th player I will go through the encounters and probably add more opponents to increase the challenge.
I'll probably add even more random encounters and side treks into the game than before. They need to get a bit bloodied every once in a while anyway! lol
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My campaign has six players. We have ran four sessions so far and half the group just hit 3rd level. A couple who started in session two are second level. I had to scale some of the encounters up or down depending. I have one more season and the group should be finished with Haunting of Harrowstone.
The group will all be mid 3rd level by then. The half of level I'm going to work into a sidetrek as they travel to Lepidstadt. Which works fine for me since I can add my own stuff to the adventure path and be a bit creative.
Just a heads up how the Campain is going.
The Professor just crashed the Party with some of his new friends. I had in total 6 Zombies and 4 Skelletons and that gave my Party some 5 Round challenge. The Paladin, the Necromancer and the Cleric cleaned up most of them with the Rought a lucky second. Said that I was able to knock out 3 of them and reduce the Paladin to 2HP. So FINLY they pured some sweat.
I dont normaly kill party peopel (except if they are REALY stupid) but I like to get them sweating and be scared.
This means that I seam to be in the right realm of upscale. I ATM still stay with the XP's as my players lacking the intrest to research and roleplay (I eill get them there) but yesterday they finaly realized that it makes sence to research as it gets them XP's.
Said that they STILL ignore the vandalisation of the Monument (didnt even go there yet) on the other hand the Rouge wants to go and kill Gibs Hephenus just cause of the trouble @ the Restalands....
OK...now I figured out the right mixture. Doube the encounters and fix up the Monsters to full HP's. E.g. Skelleton: book 4HP (1d8) -> 8 hp
and they are challanged finaly...also giving them the needed more Xp's.
PS: The Second letter is on the Monumnet and guess what...they stll ignore it....
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I actually got rid of XP when running APs. Each adventure suggests what level the PCs should be at each point. I tell my player to level their character each time we reach the next point in the adventure. It has really made things easy. I don't have to worry about adding more encounters and I still make the boss monsters a little tougher.Fascinating! Have you run Carrion Crown and, if so, could you tell me at what various points you have had the players level up?
I would love to hear other GMs comment on this suggestion. It would be a nice simplification to not worry about XP, and I don't immediately see major downsides. I could see it benefiting lazy players who zoom through an adventure through the path of least resistance and avoiding encounters, but I'm not worried about this in my group -- especially because I wouldn't let them know I wasn't counting XP...
It's right in the sidebar in HoH what levelthe PC's should be at what point in the adventure. They should be almost 2nd before exploring Harrowstone and 3rd before entering the dungeon level.
--Vrock the House!
It's right in the sidebar in HoH what levelthe PC's should be at what point in the adventure. They should be almost 2nd before exploring Harrowstone and 3rd before entering the dungeon level.
--Vrock the House!
Yeah...but my group just cleaned the first level of Harrowstone and THEN leveld....no fuged dice....and I up'ed all encounters to full HP's instead of average....
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Yeah...but my group just cleaned the first level of Harrowstone and THEN leveld....no fuged dice....and I up'ed all encounters to full HP's instead of average....
Then leveled to what? 2nd or 3rd?
For my 6 (soon to be 8) PC's I am doing exactly that, adding +1 to the CR to reflect the +1 APL and giving the beasts full hp. I'm using SKR's "alternate level advancement" so all I have to worry about is the treasure numbers. Needless to say Harrowstone will have a quite a few Alchemical Ooze swarms floating here and there!
--Vrock you like Hurricane
Then leveled to what? 2nd or 3rd?
--Vrock you like Hurricane
right..lol
the where 1st level and cleared the 1st level (ground level and the outside)
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Then leveled to what? 2nd or 3rd?
--Vrock you like Hurricaneright..lol
the where 1st level and cleared the 1st level (ground level and the outside)
How many days have passed? Sounds like you need to use the Wandering Monsters table a little more. Definitely use some of the Optional Events to stir up trouble in town. Having Prof Lorrimor rise as a zombie and knock on Kendra's door when the PC's are back in town is a good one.
How many days have passed? Sounds like you need to use the Wandering Monsters table a little more. Definitely use some of the Optional Events to stir up trouble in town. Having Prof Lorrimor rise as a zombie and knock on Kendra's door when the PC's are back in town is a good one.
We are 5 days into it and most of the events have happend. Its just that tehy didnt reseached that well and all this XP's where missing.
As for the prof...read above...