Scarwall question

[cibet44]

In the AP it says:

Spoiler:

"As long as Mithrodar exists, Scarwall is destined to remain a cursed and haunted place, and only when this curse is lifted can the PCs finish their mission to retrieve Serithtial."

My question is: Why? Why does the curse need to be lifted before the PCs retrieve Serithtial? I know it might be easier once the curse is lifted, and I know that if the PCs stay a week in Scarwall and miss their Will saves it will be necessary. Aside from these two possibilities, I don't see anything that makes lifting the curse required to gain Serithtial. In fact if the PCs somehow manage to figure out where Serithtial is in Scarwall it would be easier to just get it and go and not bother with the curse.

Did I miss something?

[graywulfe]

cibet44 wrote:

In the AP it says:

** spoiler omitted **

answer, I think:

Part of the effect of Mithrodar's presence is that the entirety of Scarwall is under a 'Dimensional Anchor' effect. All of the spells that would allow you to enter the area that eventually lead to Serithial require some form of interdimensional travel. The simplest being the main "door" which never opens but if activated correctly creates a "Phase Door" effect.

[cibet44]

graywulfe wrote:

cibet44 wrote:

In the AP it says:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Except:

Spoiler:

There is a mundane secret door in area 37 that allows access to the star tower.

According to the authors errata thread:

"On the map on page 34 add a secret door in the alcove behind the statue in room 37."

Maybe this errata is incorrect?

[Gonturan]

I posed this same question on a different thread, but I never got a completely satisfactory answer.

I get the impression that the adventure's designers were second-guessing the deadliness of their encounters (probably rightly so), and kept building back-doors into the module so that GMs could give PCs a lucky break now and then. They ended up with so many back-doors that PCs can now effectively back-door their way through the whole castle.

When I ran Scarwall, I had a Paladin in the party who felt obliged to free all the shackled souls. I also had Zellara enslaved by Mithrodar, so the PCs had a personal reason to fight the chained spirit.

You could also keep Serithial's exact location a secret, but indicate that one of the imprisoned spirits can lead the PCs there IF s/he is freed. That's essentially what happens with Count Andachi (who?) -- it just needs some telegraphing in advance, so the PCs know there will be a payoff.

[Blue_Hill]

Gonturan wrote:

You could also keep Serithial's exact location a secret, but indicate that one of the imprisoned spirits can lead the PCs there IF s/he is freed. That's essentially what happens with Count Andachi (who?) -- it just needs some telegraphing in advance, so the PCs know there will be a payoff.

Using spoilers just to be safe:

Spoiler:

That's really good thing to do. I kept Serithiel's location AND what it really is secret most of the time. Zellara didn't tell much ("daughter of steel" and "herald of Champion" and it is imprisoned), them Silas told them more about it (it is something or someone who/what helped Mandraivus the Champion destroy Kazavon but not its remains). Then wraith Mandraivus yelled them that "Serithiel! She is mine, mine only!" (again with personal pronoun to confuse them).

One of my players mentioned name Serithiel while fighting Mithrodar and I made him cry in agony and attack that PC. More confusion about what happened in the castle or what they are looking for. Devils of course don't know anything about Serithiel if asked. Belshallam knows the legend about Serithiel better than Silas and if party negotiates with him he can tell that it's weapon or some sort of item that can hurt Kazavon. He doesn't know where it it. Then Count Andachi reveals that it's a weapon but doesn't know the type even if PCs ask about it.

My party was suprised it was sword, they expected something else but they realized that pf course it's sword as they knew Mandraivus was paladin of Iomedae. I think this more mysterious approach worked better than plain "fetch the magical sword". By making them learn things after discussing with Silas now party is thinking if they should tell their new info to Silas. After speaking with Andachi they aren't sure if they can trust Brotherhood of Bones. Funny thing is that they owe much to them so making Brotherhood look evil (as they are) was great thing. Drama, I love it.

Hopefully someone can catch my train of thought.

[cibet44]

Gonturan wrote:

They ended up with so many back-doors that PCs can now effectively back-door their way through the whole castle.

I think that pretty much explains it. I could see how this would happen if you were just reading through the adventure and looking for balance. Unfortunately I think it does it quite a disservice. I don't think the back doors were necessary and in fact make it harder to DM and more confusing for the players. As a DM you have to know every back door the PCs may potentially find and as you read the adventure more and more keep popping up. As a player the story encourages you to defeat a "great evil" in the castle and lift the curse then simultaneously removes any actual reason why you need to do it unless you want to. Really takes the heart out of it, I think.

[Gonturan]

cibet44 wrote:

As a player the story encourages you to defeat a "great evil" in the castle and lift the curse then simultaneously removes any actual reason why you need to do it unless you want to. Really takes the heart out of it, I think.

I agree. Having run the adventure as part of Crimson Throne, I can say with confidence that it would make a far better stand-alone module, with the objective precisely as you've described. Serithial is a MacGuffin, and it weakens the gothic horror atmosphere to make the PCs focus exclusively on recovering it.

There may be other ways to tie Scarwall more intrinsically into the Crimson Throne story arc, but I couldn't come up with anything on the fly.