I remember from way back in 2e that you couldn't wear armor 24/10. you needed to get out of your armor in order to do such mundane things like sleeping and bathing and flirting with the tavern wenches...
I was fairly certain that the rule was also in 3e, but I appear to be totally unable to find it in Pathfinder.
Anyone know where it is or why its no longer there if it was removed?
Have a look at the Endurance feat.
I remember playing through 90% of the original fable wearing full-plate and finally taking it off somewhere near the end of the game to see that my character had turned into a pale old man, covered in lines and stains from his armor. Never took it off again.
Sleeping in armour results in the character being fatigued the next day unless one has Endurance. Even taking that into account, though, there are matters of personal comfort and hygiene to consider.
Sleeping in armour results in the character being fatigued the next day unless one has Endurance. Even taking that into account, though, there are matters of personal comfort and hygiene to consider.
I accept that as axiom, but where is it in the rules?
ie: Assuming they have endurance, a Barbarian with a level of fighter or a fighter/barbarian gestalt likely wouldn't care about the smell so much until the elven wizard got tired of the smell and TK'ed his ass into the local stream to get rid of the stench...
Prestidigitation.
Prestidigitation.
Yes, that would help solve the problem, but that wasn't my question.
My question is where is it in the rules that there are other health concerns that aren't addressed by the endurance feat?
we all know that in real life gangrene and trench-foot would set in quickly because the character isn't taking care of himself. Endurance only covers fatigue related effects of sleeping in your armor. Which is fine, but if you don't get out of your armor for a few hours every day, there would be consequences to your health. When do you go use the chamber pot? It's not something you can do in armor. Sure you could pee in your armor, but not the other.
No, using the 'facilities' isn't in the rules, but just like on TV it's something that everyone is assumed to be doing during the down time each day and off screen, unless it comes up for some reason, like you stating that your character never leaves his armor because he has the endurance feat.
where are the rules that cover that stuff?
where are the rules that cover that stuff?
In your head, you learned them growing up. They are called common sense and basic personal hygiene and generally don't need to be reprinted in a game.
Some games/groups get super detailed about what happens outside of combat. Some have the adventure as the sole focus of the game. Since rules on showering, bathing, cleaing clothes, etc are pretty gosh darn boring and frankly, not really needed by any but the most anal of gamers, most games skip them. (Maybe all and not most).
Maybe you might want to be more detailed as to WHY you need these armor wearing restriction rules and folks could be more helpful? Is there a player in your game who refuses to ever remove their armor? Are YOU a player in a game who refuses to ever remove their armor? Etc?
Think of a mideval or classical era soldier. They only took off their armor to sleep. That is the only point where you HAVE to take it off. Bathing in a non-modern world was nowhere near as common as it is now. In the mideval era some people might not bathe for 6 months. And in some cultures people wore armor into the tavern. There are no issues that need to be addressed for this besides the sleeping thing. As for bathing or flirting, it is up to the dm and the social norms of his or her world to establish where or when that is appropriate. There's no need for mechanics.
Think of a mideval or classical era soldier. They only took off their armor to sleep. That is the only point where you HAVE to take it off. Bathing in a non-modern world was nowhere near as common as it is now. In the mideval era some people might not bathe for 6 months. And in some cultures people wore armor into the tavern. There are no issues that need to be addressed for this besides the sleeping thing. As for bathing or flirting, it is up to the dm and the social norms of his or her world to establish where or when that is appropriate. There's no need for mechanics.
Agreed. It's just like maintenance. Armor requires maintenance, which can't be done while being worn. The game doesn't have rules for it, because it's left up to the GM.
In my own games, I usually hand wave it, and assume that if they have the feats, they are taking the armor off and cleaning it every day, taking a bath very frequently or getting a caster to hit them with prestidigitation (if they're wearing it 24/7, they need to to avoid trench foot, etc).
Pathfinder apparently cut that section out of the CRB. Understandable considering they combined the PHB and DMG from 3.5 so space was probably an issue.
Sleeping in Armor: A character who sleeps in medium or heavy
armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He or she takes a –2
penalty on Strength and Dexterity and can’t charge or run. Sleeping
in light armor does not cause fatigue.
Aside from this rule, there is no rule for wearing armor 24/7/365. I would suggest requiring random Fortitude saves after a period of time, and upping the DC with each passing time increment following the initial save. Have the effect deal some sort of physical ability damage, and be very graphic in the description of the problem. Maybe you could even find pictures of real life cases.
Best of luck. :)
Think of a mideval or classical era soldier. They only took off their armor to sleep. That is the only point where you HAVE to take it off. Bathing in a non-modern world was nowhere near as common as it is now. In the mideval era some people might not bathe for 6 months. And in some cultures people wore armor into the tavern. There are no issues that need to be addressed for this besides the sleeping thing. As for bathing or flirting, it is up to the dm and the social norms of his or her world to establish where or when that is appropriate. There's no need for mechanics.Agreed. It's just like maintenance. Armor requires maintenance, which can't be done while being worn. The game doesn't have rules for it, because it's left up to the GM.
In my own games, I usually hand wave it, and assume that if they have the feats, they are taking the armor off and cleaning it every day, taking a bath very frequently or getting a caster to hit them with prestidigitation (if they're wearing it 24/7, they need to to avoid trench foot, etc).
Trench foot, armor sores etc is a level of simulation that the game doesnt go to. I also handwave it. Just like I assume swords are sharpened and oiled, axe handles repaired/replaced, and spell components are replenished. Certainly there are some minor tasks that need to be done to maintain equipment, but the vast majority of games arent interested in getting into those details. You are profficient with it, not just in it's use but in it's care as well.
Just like there arent rules for how often a player has to use the restroom, its not a detail the game needs to go into.
Trench foot, armor sores etc is a level of simulation that the game doesnt go to. I also handwave it. Just like I assume swords are sharpened and oiled, axe handles repaired/replaced, and spell components are replenished. Certainly there are some minor tasks that need to be done to maintain equipment, but the vast majority of games arent interested in getting into those details. You are profficient with it, not just in it's use but in it's care as well.
Just like there arent rules for how often a player has to use the restroom, its not a detail the game needs to go into.
I agree for the most part, but there are occasions where a player seems to "forget" those handwaved details and shoots up out of his bedroll fully armed and armored in the dead of night when he's ambushed. The fatigue doesn't concern him, it's a small price to pay for being prepared for anything, in the player's mind.
Thus it helps to have a way to remind them that they are still mortal and susceptible to mundane illnesses. Plus, throwing something like this in every now and again refreshes the immersion. I wouldn't suggest using this much detail in every session.
I agree for the most part, but there are occasions where a player seems to "forget" those handwaved details and shoots up out of his bedroll fully armed and armored in the dead of night when he's ambushed. The fatigue doesn't concern him, it's a small price to pay for being prepared for anything, in the player's mind.Thus it helps to have a way to remind them that they are still mortal and susceptible to mundane illnesses. Plus, throwing something like this in every now and again refreshes the immersion. I wouldn't suggest using this much detail in every session.
Nobody said we're handwaiving the endurance feat, just the trench foot thing, same as bathrooms and sharpening weapons.
If he doesn't have endurance, then he's still fatigued from sleeping in the armor (and even with endurance, he can only do Medium armor).
Or possibly those gamers who don't have familiarity with those activities in real life?
*Sigh* While I have a lot of great memories of Gen Con over the last 30 years, I have as many bad memories of smelly gamers AT Gen Con over the last 30 years. ROFL
Nobody said we're handwaiving the endurance feat, just the trench foot thing, same as bathrooms and sharpening weapons.
If he doesn't have endurance, then he's still fatigued from sleeping in the armor (and even with endurance, he can only do Medium armor).
I wasn't talking about handwaving Endurance, I was talking about handwaving things like trenchfoot. Sorry if what I said wasn't clear.
I know my players forget that things like that exist, and I have one guy who thinks it's a video game, wants to sleep in his armor, never bathes, doesn't think about eating, has no interest in anything but weapons... it's kinda irritating when those players think they can just completely ignore the mundane. Throwing details like this at my players is something I do to counter that.