Two-Handed Fighting and multiple arms


Rules Questions


10 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I'm playing a summoner and I had planned to have an Eidolon who uses multiple arms with multiple greatswords or Elven Curve Swords(the summon itself is flavored to have multiple invisible arms ala Elfen Lied).

I'm confused on how this works. Say I have 10 limbs and am holding 5 swords in each pair of limbs. Would one set count as the "primary" when using multi-weapon rules? If so, what would the strength bonus be on all of the arms? Normally a THW gets 1.5 Str. Would an off-Hand, THW get 1.0 strength or .5 strength?


Jack of Tales wrote:
I'm confused on how this works. Say I have 10 limbs and am holding 5 swords in each pair of limbs. Would one set count as the "primary" when using multi-weapon rules?

Based on what the multiweapon feat in the Bestiary calls the normal rules. I would say yes one hand is primary and everything else is an off-hand.

Jack of Tales wrote:
If so, what would the strength bonus be on all of the arms? Normally a THW gets 1.5 Str. Would an off-Hand, THW get 1.0 strength or .5 strength?

A strict rules-as-written answer is that all two-handed weapons deal 1-1/2 times STR modifier to damage.

But, using two "off-hands" isn't exactly what the developers had in mind when they wrote that. I would rule it does 1 times STR. Since primary hand does 1 times STR with a one-handed weapon and off-hand does 1/2 times STR; two hands normally does the sum of those two namely 1 and 1/2. So, it seems logical that you would add the bonus for two off-hands, namely 1 times STR modifier.


Some call me Tim wrote:
Jack of Tales wrote:
I'm confused on how this works. Say I have 10 limbs and am holding 5 swords in each pair of limbs. Would one set count as the "primary" when using multi-weapon rules?

Based on what the multiweapon feat in the Bestiary calls the normal rules. I would say yes one hand is primary and everything else is an off-hand.

Jack of Tales wrote:
If so, what would the strength bonus be on all of the arms? Normally a THW gets 1.5 Str. Would an off-Hand, THW get 1.0 strength or .5 strength?

A strict rules-as-written answer is that all two-handed weapons deal 1-1/2 times STR modifier to damage.

But, using two "off-hands" isn't exactly what the developers had in mind when they wrote that. I would rule it does 1 times STR. Since primary hand does 1 times STR with a one-handed weapon and off-hand does 1/2 times STR; two hands normally does the sum of those two namely 1 and 1/2. So, it seems logical that you would add the bonus for two off-hands, namely 1 times STR modifier.

There is a Feat that allows you to gain a x1 STR modifier on off-hand attacks.

So, what would you do then?

There is no way to make Power Attack do more than 1 for 1 in damage on off-hand attacks and secondary natural attack.

Just mentioning this, because the multiplication rules are not defined anywhere.

I suppose the most RAW interpretation would be to take all applicable multiplication rules, apply each to the original number and then add the increase/decrease.


Jack of Tales wrote:

I'm playing a summoner and I had planned to have an Eidolon who uses multiple arms with multiple greatswords or Elven Curve Swords(the summon itself is flavored to have multiple invisible arms ala Elfen Lied).

I'm confused on how this works. Say I have 10 limbs and am holding 5 swords in each pair of limbs. Would one set count as the "primary" when using multi-weapon rules? If so, what would the strength bonus be on all of the arms? Normally a THW gets 1.5 Str. Would an off-Hand, THW get 1.0 strength or .5 strength?

I would hit the FAQ button. You will most likely get a different ruling from every GM until something official is stated.


wraithstrike wrote:
Jack of Tales wrote:

I'm playing a summoner and I had planned to have an Eidolon who uses multiple arms with multiple greatswords or Elven Curve Swords(the summon itself is flavored to have multiple invisible arms ala Elfen Lied).

I'm confused on how this works. Say I have 10 limbs and am holding 5 swords in each pair of limbs. Would one set count as the "primary" when using multi-weapon rules? If so, what would the strength bonus be on all of the arms? Normally a THW gets 1.5 Str. Would an off-Hand, THW get 1.0 strength or .5 strength?

I would hit the FAQ button. You will most likely get a different ruling from every GM until something official is stated.

Thanks, I didn't even really know what that was until you mentioned it. I've hit it for an answer! Next time I play with my friends I'll ask the DM what he thinks it should be too, for his game.


Xraal wrote:
Some call me Tim wrote:
But, using two "off-hands" isn't exactly what the developers had in mind when they wrote that. I would rule it does 1 times STR. Since primary hand does 1 times STR with a one-handed weapon and off-hand does 1/2 times STR; two hands normally does the sum of those two namely 1 and 1/2. So, it seems logical that you would add the bonus for two off-hands, namely 1 times STR modifier.

There is a Feat that allows you to gain a x1 STR modifier on off-hand attacks.

So, what would you do then?

Which answer do you want because I could come up with reasons to answer 1X, 1-1/2X, or 2X.

I would rule at my table it doesn't apply because it is a feat designed for two weapons not two-handed weapons and stick with the original 1 times STR. To wit: "Your off-hand weapon while dual-wielding strikes with greater power."

Of course the argument could be made that using two greats swords are dual-wielding, but what if you got six arms and are tri-wielding....Guess the feat doesn't apply then.

This is the problem with any rule set and even any answer in a FAQ. There is always that odd feat or ability that doesn't play nicely with the rest of the rules. You eventually end up playing whack-a-mole with all the exceptions.

Love it or hate there will always be a place for GM fiat.


But there IS a rule stating that using many arms works along the same rules as two-weapon fighting. Read the multiattack feat, I think that is the one. I'm not near my books.


Xraal wrote:
But there IS a rule stating that using many arms works along the same rules as two-weapon fighting. Read the multiattack feat, I think that is the one. I'm not near my books.

Multi-weapon fighting is the one. Multi-attack reduces the penalty for using secondary natural attacks to -2.


Yup, thank you. That was the one.

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