Chill Touch


Rules Questions


I was reading the write up for chill touch and it says I can make the attack one time per level, so does this mean that when I use the spell I keep the "charge" until I've used it a number of times equal to my caster level or does it mean I make three (I am level 3 atm) attacks with the spell the turn I cast it?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I used to feel like the rules for spells that allow multiple touches are incomplete or contradictory, but I just came across this:

Quote:
Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.

But there is also this:

Quote:

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

I would think that chill touch allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds because "one target/level" can reach much higher than 6, and it would seem odd that you lose the extra touches since the spell does not state a limit... and there are plenty of spells that set limits.

Normally, casting a touch spell comes with a free touch in the round that you cast the spell, so you can cast the spell as a standard action, move as a move action, and then, touch as a free action.

Going strictly by RAW, I could see that you get one free action touch attack in the round that you cast the spell, and then, following rounds can be used to make up to 6 touch attacks as a full-round action. This means 1 touch in the round that you cast the spell, and up to 6 touches in the following rounds.

However, I would allow the casting of the spell to include up to 6 touches if you extend the standard action into a full-round action, so this way you can cast and touch up to 6 in the round that you cast the spell, and up to 6 more touches in following rounds.

Liberty's Edge

lord_void wrote:
I was reading the write up for chill touch and it says I can make the attack one time per level, so does this mean that when I use the spell I keep the "charge" until I've used it a number of times equal to my caster level or does it mean I make three (I am level 3 atm) attacks with the spell the turn I cast it?

You can make a touch attack as part of the standard action to cast the spell. After that, you can make a touch attack as a standard action or you can make as many touch attacks as your BAB allows as a full round action.

Touching multiple targets is a reference to things like teleport. With chill touch, you aren't merely touching them, you are making touch attacks. Touch attacks are attacks; the rules on how many attacks you can make in a round apply.


reefwood wrote:

I used to feel like the rules for spells that allow multiple touches are incomplete or contradictory, but I just came across this:

Quote:
Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.

But there is also this:

Quote:

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

I would think that chill touch allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds because "one target/level" can reach much higher than 6, and it would seem odd that you lose the extra touches since the spell does not state a limit... and there are plenty of spells that set limits.

Normally, casting a touch spell comes with a free touch in the round that you cast the spell, so you can cast the spell as a standard action, move as a move action, and then, touch as a free action.

Going strictly by RAW, I could see that you get one free action touch attack in the round that you cast the spell, and then, following rounds can be used to make up to 6 touch attacks as a full-round action. This means...

The two rules you quoted are talking about different things. The first one deals with "If you have multiple rounds, how many can you use each round." The second deals with "If you have multiple touches in one round, how long do you have?" It's really two opposite scenarios.

In this case, because chill touch doesn't say anything about "over multiple rounds", only the rule about not being able to hold the charge applies. Which makes it not very useful, but then it is a 1st level spell. Compare to vampiric touch (which is only one target) and elemental touch (which has a duration rather than a limit on touches).

Dark Archive

Howie23 wrote:
lord_void wrote:
I was reading the write up for chill touch and it says I can make the attack one time per level, so does this mean that when I use the spell I keep the "charge" until I've used it a number of times equal to my caster level or does it mean I make three (I am level 3 atm) attacks with the spell the turn I cast it?

You can make a touch attack as part of the standard action to cast the spell. After that, you can make a touch attack as a standard action or you can make as many touch attacks as your BAB allows as a full round action.

Touching multiple targets is a reference to things like teleport. With chill touch, you aren't merely touching them, you are making touch attacks. Touch attacks are attacks; the rules on how many attacks you can make in a round apply.

Which is why this is a fun spell for a rogue with the Major Magic talent.

a touch attack that does 1d6 neg damage, +1 str damage, +sneak attack (if possible) for a number of touches = to rogue level, 3 times a day? Too useful.


Bobson wrote:

The two rules you quoted are talking about different things. The first one deals with "If you have multiple rounds, how many can you use each round." The second deals with "If you have multiple touches in one round, how long do you have?" It's really two opposite scenarios.

In this case, because chill touch doesn't say anything about "over multiple rounds", only the rule about not being able to hold the charge applies. Which makes it not very useful, but then it is a 1st level spell. Compare to vampiric touch (which is only one target) and elemental touch (which has a duration rather than a limit on touches).

The rules don't make any sense. The only way you could touch more than one target with a 'multiple touch' spell would be to cast it Quickened. Otherwise you don't have a full-round action to take on the turn you cast it to attempt to touch more than one target.


Lets say your BAB is +6.

Round one, you cast the spell and touch attack one target. You also get a move action.

Round two, you can full attack and make two touch attacks at +6 and +1 plus take a 5' step. OR make one touch attack at +6 and then a move action.

Round three+ - Repeat above until the touch attacks made equal your caster level. If you cast another spell any other "charges" are wasted any your chill touch spell ends.


Bobson wrote:

The two rules you quoted are talking about different things. The first one deals with "If you have multiple rounds, how many can you use each round." The second deals with "If you have multiple touches in one round, how long do you have?" It's really two opposite scenarios.

In this case, because chill touch doesn't say anything about "over multiple rounds", only the rule about not being able to hold the charge applies. Which makes it not very useful, but then it is a 1st level spell. Compare to vampiric touch (which is only one target) and elemental touch (which has a duration rather than a limit on touches).

Out of curiosity, what spells say that you can touch creatures over multiple rounds?

And how would you handle chill touch? Standard action to cast and free action for one touch? If I understand you correctly (which maybe I'm not), you can only use this spell to touch one creature because you can only get one touch in the round that it is cast, and the spell will not carryover to the next round. But if this is the case, why is the limit up to one creature/level? This seems to indicate that you can touch multiple creatures, and I think the only way to do that would be for the spell to carryover multiple rounds. But maybe I'm missing something you said or something in the rules?

EDIT:

Adam Ormond wrote:
The rules don't make any sense. The only way you could touch more than one target with a 'multiple touch' spell would be to cast it Quickened. Otherwise you don't have a full-round action to take on the turn you cast it to attempt to touch more than one target.

I wouldn't say they don't make any sense, but there sure does seem to be a problem on how to handle melee touch spells that can target multiple opponents.

Shadow Lodge

Thazar wrote:

Lets say your BAB is +6.

Round one, you cast the spell and touch attack one target. You also get a move action.

Round two, you can full attack and make two touch attacks at +6 and +1 plus take a 5' step. OR make one touch attack at +6 and then a move action.

Round three+ - Repeat above until the touch attacks made equal your caster level. If you cast another spell any other "charges" are wasted any your chill touch spell ends.

This is precisely correct.

The spell is instantaneous, and gives you a touch attack that is usable for a number of successful touch attacks equal to your caster level, OR until you cast a different spell, OR you start touching something else.

The act of casting a touch attack spell grants you the ability to make a touch attack as a free action, once, usable only in the round when the spell is cast. In later rounds, the touch attack requires an attack action, which may be a full attack, circumstances permitting.

The rules about touching six targets in a single round refer to willing targets only. So, yes, if all your friends want to get Chill Touched, you can touch six in a single round. But only then.

If you want to make multiple touch attacks in a single round, the two main ways you can do it are to get your BAB high enough, or to polymorph into a form that gets multiple natural attacks and cast the spell once polymorphed.

Shadow Lodge

reefwood wrote:

Out of curiosity, what spells say that you can touch creatures over multiple rounds?

And how would you handle chill touch? Standard action to cast and free action for one touch? If I understand you correctly (which maybe I'm not), you can only use this spell to touch one creature because you can only get one touch in the round that it is cast, and the spell will not carryover to the next round. But if this is the case, why is the limit up to one creature/level? This seems to indicate that you can touch multiple creatures, and I think the only way to do that would be for the spell to carryover multiple rounds. But maybe I'm missing something you said or something in the rules?

As far as I can remember, Chill Touch and Elemental Touch are the only multiple touch spells. Elemental Touch has a duration; that's pretty straightforward. Chill Touch grants the caster a touch attack, successfully dischargable a number of times equal to your caster level.

Now the real question is what happens when you cast Chill Touch and start grappling someone.


InVinoVeritas wrote:
reefwood wrote:

Out of curiosity, what spells say that you can touch creatures over multiple rounds?

And how would you handle chill touch? Standard action to cast and free action for one touch? If I understand you correctly (which maybe I'm not), you can only use this spell to touch one creature because you can only get one touch in the round that it is cast, and the spell will not carryover to the next round. But if this is the case, why is the limit up to one creature/level? This seems to indicate that you can touch multiple creatures, and I think the only way to do that would be for the spell to carryover multiple rounds. But maybe I'm missing something you said or something in the rules?

As far as I can remember, Chill Touch and Elemental Touch are the only multiple touch spells. Elemental Touch has a duration; that's pretty straightforward. Chill Touch grants the caster a touch attack, successfully dischargable a number of times equal to your caster level.

Now the real question is what happens when you cast Chill Touch and start grappling someone.

The world still wants to know.. No seriously, and what if it is the converse and i am holding the charge?

Grand Lodge

I literally just asked this question yesterday. Seriously. It's still on the first page. While it wasn't the same question verbatim, you'd've gotten the same answer out of it.

LINK

Or did you want to know what happens with a grapple....

Go read any of the dozens of questions about touch spells and grapple. It only goes off if you use your maintain grapple check to apply it.


I think the 6 touches as a full-round action thing is for willing targets only.

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