So, I've been running Kingmaker for a party of 6 (9 if you count animal companions, and as of last night 11 for animal companions and cohorts). That part is broken, but I'm ok with it for now.
What I'm more concerned about is the potential brokenness of the kingdom economy, which seems to be a common idea on these boards.
ATM the kingdom of Spellstitch has a set of saves of Econ. +99, Loyalty +72, Stability +72. They are at a size of 28, and I'm debating whether I want them to go to the full 50-60 as suggested in the Varnhold Vanishing, or cut them short. They are currently generating around 175 BP per month. Now, that seems to be the common story across these boards, however, where this is different is that they have withdrawn, in the now 3 years a grand total of 1 BP for personal use. EVERYTHING has gone back into the kingdom.
So, I am presented with a problem or two.
First, I'm wondering if the kingdom is incredibly over powered, or if, when mass combat comes around their at a point where they can weather the storm without too much worry (kind of what I'm hoping).
Second, they are starting to think of building armies. Should I allow them, or will that mess things up when Tatzleford is attacked later?
So, I've been running Kingmaker for a party of 6 (9 if you count animal companions, and as of last night 11 for animal companions and cohorts). That part is broken, but I'm ok with it for now.
What I'm more concerned about is the potential brokenness of the kingdom economy, which seems to be a common idea on these boards.
ATM the kingdom of Spellstitch has a set of saves of Econ. +99, Loyalty +72, Stability +72. They are at a size of 28, and I'm debating whether I want them to go to the full 50-60 as suggested in the Varnhold Vanishing, or cut them short. They are currently generating around 175 BP per month. Now, that seems to be the common story across these boards, however, where this is different is that they have withdrawn, in the now 3 years a grand total of 1 BP for personal use. EVERYTHING has gone back into the kingdom.
So, I am presented with a problem or two.
First, I'm wondering if the kingdom is incredibly over powered, or if, when mass combat comes around their at a point where they can weather the storm without too much worry (kind of what I'm hoping).
Second, they are starting to think of building armies. Should I allow them, or will that mess things up when Tatzleford is attacked later?
Those are pretty impressive scores for a three year old kingdom. To reach them, I'm assuming that your players have had full access to the kingdom building rules and have been able to exploit the many loopholes or that they have heavily invested in the magic item economy. I don't know that the kingdom is overpowered, but it is certainly more than where it needs to be to begin Varnhold Vanishing. How powerful their kingdom is won't really effect that adventure. Where it becomes important and potentially unbalancing is when they reach the latter parts of the adventure, if their size and economic power allows them to build devastating and undefeatable armies. Take a look in the fifth installment, which has the mass combat rules, at what the various armies cost in upkeep, compare what your group could afford to support and what their potential adversaries will field, and that should give you a good idea of whether your group's kingdom is overpowered. Of course, even if they are overpowered, that doesn't mean you can't ramp up the opposition to match them as well. It's just like optimization of characters - if the group optimizes, then so does the opposition. Unless you like cakewalks. I think some do.
I actually applaud your group for plowing everything back into the kingdom, and they should reap the rewards of that decision.
As for creating standing armies early, let them do it if they want to. It will have little impact on the game other than as a drain on their BP. It's actually very logical of them to do so, given they live in a dangerous neighborhood, and they don't know if and when they will be attacked. If that makes them a little more prepared for early conflict than they would be otherwise, well then that was wise planning on their part, in my book.
Man. Those are impressive scores alright. I'm particularly impressed by the 175 BP per month income (though I suppose, once they hit 100 BP, they can just keep building Waterfront cities and just increase their profits pretty geometrically.)
I mean, my group aren't exactly slouches, but with a kingdom size in the 50s they only have an Economy score in the high 80s.
(Yes you should let them grow - bigger kingdom = more consumption, which equals less BP. How many cities could there possibly be in your Kingdom anyhow?)
I'd have the same issue but I only allow 1 magic item sale per city or city district now. It got out of hand for a few months once they hit that point. Now they can only sell two items per month and they have two major items. It's made things lot more reasonable and it given them a reason to expand their kingdom. More cities mean more magic items they can sell. To get more cities they have to increase the amount of hexes they control. It works pretty good.
Standing armies can be a good money sink if you are worried about them having too much. I would encourage the players to start investing in one.
I would also reward the players for investing in one. Nothing says that those random encounters need to be the only ones available. Having a rampaging barbarian tribe, an uprizing, or just about anything that an army could deal with is a great reward for their investment. I would have fun with kingdom encounters if they do decide to raise an army so that they feel like they made a good decision and didn't just invest in a money sink.
I'd have the same issue but I only allow 1 magic item sale per city or city district now.That's the default rule?
-Kle.
Could be but I didn't want to say for sure as I didn't have the book on hand. So I checked last night and yes it is. I know I missed it when we were playing and just implemented that out common sense. Applying that rule cuts down the BP getting out of hand.
To answer your original post, I'd say yes - this needs to be fixed.
I've answered the question in detail in other threads but basically, 50-60 BP/turn easily meets the needs of army building in book 5. If they have significantly more than this the mass combat portion of the AP becomes too easy. The CR of armies is based almost entirely on the amount of money you have to spend. With over triple what you need to face the challenges of the upcoming, the PCs will be able to field armies with a total CR of about 4 higher than what they'll need.
If you want a good analogy, it would be like playing the first book of the AP with characters starting at 5th level. Sure, they'll trounce everything, but it's not exactly fun when there's no challenge.
There are many suggestions on these boards regarding modifying (or eliminating) magic items from the economy of their kingdom. It would be wise (IMO) to consider them before getting too much further along.