Generally, I have a fair enough grasp on the rules and understanding of the game; as a player, I'd rather run characters that are interesting (slash real, though that term is subjective) rather than a sheet of numbers where I have to dump-stat Cha/Int/any stat without purpose.
Essentially, I have three characters, linked below, that are "finished". Might be important to point out that the summoner and inquisitor have their dump stat as con, which is me being mega-original and going for sickly-during-childhood; probably not optimal, but I'll live (hurr hurr).
What I do want to know, though, is generally what could be done to improve the characters. Feats, traits, skills, generally what enormous flaws can be spotted on the characters that would make him/her a massive liability (as opposed to useful enough that the low health won't be too big a problem).
I should also tell you I'm new to being a player. I don't know what optimal values are, what the average AC/attack/saves for enemies or PCs of particular levels are, and so on.
Not sure how to help. Just popped in to say your inquisitor link is busted.
Not sure how to help. Just popped in to say your inquisitor link is busted.
Argh, my bad.
Thank you for pointing this out.
On your female monk I just think you need to explore the "why she became a monk" angle. Usually that generates plenty of role playing opportunities for me.
In 4e I play a spiked chain ranger. Spiked chain is not considered to be particularly optimized, both due to its low damage and the need to give up your multi-class option to use one as a double weapon. But I have woven the chain into his backstory so much that the GM has been able to use that to provide hooks. Basically his family was captured by slave raiders and he was given to the slave raiders' blacksmith as a slave and grew up laboring in the blacksmith shop. Eventually he managed to sneak and hide enough scraps of metal that one night after getting the blacksmith to pass out in a drunken stupor, he fired up the forge and turned the scraps into a wicked, jagged chain. Picking the lock to the blacksmith shop, he moved to the gate and surprised the guards from behind, using his chain to kill them both and escape.
I have similarly woven his mastery of thrown daggers into the overall backstory and have introduced several specific habits that he has, such as smoking the most expensive cigars he can find (which I modeled after several cigar-chomping movie and comic book characters). He also enjoys taunting and belittling his opponents in combat. I role play him as being focused on one target almost to the exclusion of all else during combat, until that one target goes down, and he will yell at his own players to let him go mano-a-mano with the target until the rest of the enemies are down, he is down, or (more preferably and commonly) his target is down. This means that he sometimes loses track of the most optimal tactical option in his zeal to "do his job" as he sees it, which is usually to engage the most threatening melee opponent one on one while the rest of the party mops up the remaining ones or deals with ranged or spellcasting targets.
In our last encounter his target had an ability to push characters away from him, so my ranger found himself up against a wall surrounded by two lesser melee opponents. I knew he would take opportunity attacks, and in the back of his mind my ranger knew it too, but his target was still up and standing, so with a howl of rage he leapt over the nearest foe (taking an attack of opportunity in the process) and raced past the other foe (taking another one) so that he could complete his job as he saw it. Upon landing from his leap in the square adjacent to his target he spit his cigar into the target's face and said "You don't know what you are dealing with here!" as he proceeded to whale away on the target, killing it in that and the next turn. Yeah, he took some damage, but that's just how he is.
I think without knowing what type your gm is, what type of campaign your playing in and what the rest of your team is, it's going to be hard to really give advice on character builds.
That being said dumping con is usually a bad idea especially in combat oriented campaigns. The monk above the others is a melee character and needs more con over int. Dumping con usually results in character death very quickly and generally makes you more of a liability than any use you could provide.
Spoiler:On your female monk I just think you need to explore the "why she became a monk" angle. Usually that generates plenty of role playing opportunities for me.In 4e I play a spiked chain ranger. Spiked chain is not considered to be particularly optimized, both due to its low damage and the need to give up your multi-class option to use one as a double weapon. But I have woven the chain into his backstory so much that the GM has been able to use that to provide hooks. Basically his family was captured by slave raiders and he was given to the slave raiders' blacksmith as a slave and grew up laboring in the blacksmith shop. Eventually he managed to sneak and hide enough scraps of metal that one night after getting the blacksmith to pass out in a drunken stupor, he fired up the forge and turned the scraps into a wicked, jagged chain. Picking the lock to the blacksmith shop, he moved to the gate and surprised the guards from behind, using his chain to kill them both and escape.
I have similarly woven his mastery of thrown daggers into the overall backstory and have introduced several specific habits that he has, such as smoking the most expensive cigars he can find (which I modeled after several cigar-chomping movie and comic book characters). He also enjoys taunting and belittling his opponents in combat. I role play him as being focused on one target almost to the exclusion of all else during combat, until that one target goes down, and he will yell at his own players to let him go mano-a-mano with the target until the rest of the enemies are down, he is down, or (more preferably and commonly) his target is down. This means that he sometimes loses track of the most optimal tactical option in his zeal to "do his job" as he sees it, which is usually to engage the most threatening melee opponent one on one while the rest of the party mops up the remaining ones or deals with ranged or spellcasting targets.
In our last encounter his target had an ability to push characters away from him, so my ranger found himself...
Aye, thank you for replying; I haven't decided yet on background and purpose, but your anecdote has given me more insight in how to do a compelling character. I'll whip something up in time, depending on the campaign I join.
Spoiler:I think without knowing what type your gm is, what type of campaign your playing in and what the rest of your team is, it's going to be hard to really give advice on character builds.That being said dumping con is usually a bad idea especially in combat oriented campaigns. The monk above the others is a melee character and needs more con over int. Dumping con usually results in character death very quickly and generally makes you more of a liability than any use you could provide.
Thank you for the reply as well - I imagine it must be difficult without knowing what the other players will play with. I also know dumping Con is very dangerous, but it also makes for interesting character interaction (or so I would think - unless the character dies. Which is exactly the concern).
I'm really just curious if my characters are too gimped or weak in regards of what I'm aiming for and for a decently balanced party (subject to personal interpretation). As mentioned, I have little experience with being a player. What I don't want the characters to be is a liability.
As for the monk, the high int is because of combat expertise and high combat manoeuvre checks, or that's what the original intent was.
Whether dumping con is a bad idea (beyond the general statement that "dumping" any stat is a bad idea) depends on how lethal your GM's campaign is. If it's a pretty lethal campaign, particularly if the GM includes a lot of poison, disease or save-or-die spell attacks from NPCs, then you could be in trouble. But if not, you may be fine.
Either way I would say play the character you want to play and try to make it work first.
Combat Expertise is nice but really, is a monk going to want to nerf their already lacklustre attack bonus? Unless you are going to rack up lots of combat manoeuvres, that's not going to be a good way to go. However, if you are heading that way, then forget strength, max out dexterity and take Agile Maneuvers. Dex can and will do your heavy lifting with the right feats, and it makes your character less 'MAD'.
I'll review my monk again and see if I can make her less MAD, then.
What about Zen Archer for the Monk?
If you're going for the challenge of being a melee character with low Con, I'd be a trip monkey and make the tank in your group look good. Since you're starting level 1, I'd probably go for Spring Attack feats first, then take Combat Expertise just to get to Imp Trip as you level up. I'd use a Temple Sword, Hanbo, or a Monk weapon that has Trip, so you can drop it and punch (or cower in fear) in an emergency. Plus, any enchantments you get on the weapon stack if used for the CMB.
I think your Summoner is all wrong, though. I would switch your Dex and Int scores for sure. I don't know how Skill-heavy your campaigns are, but I found I could augment a lot of that with spells and equipment. You'll be needing to use that bow a lot. Put some money into it. You're a secondary spellcaster that is really only good at buffs and control spells, so you will often find times when you just don't have a good spell or you run out. Get Spell Focus Conjuration next as it improves the saves of most of your good spells.
Also, I got a little too married to the idea of an Eidolon early on. About half the time, the Eidolon wasn't as useful as a Summoned Monster with Aug Summon. Plus, you don't have to worry about healing a Summoned Monster.
Summoner;
Martial Weapon Prof: Longbow Feat- at low levels you are only getting 1 attack/round anyway, use a light crossbow (same dam). At higher levels you should be summoning allies or casting spells and should only need to break out the bow in very unusual situations. Put the feat into SpellFocus Conjuration (so you can pickup Augment Summoning ASAP). In my group, Augment Summoning means the monsters are around for 1 extra round.
Since he doesn't appear to wear armour, Mage Armor would probably be a better choice than Shield for spells known. And with a 10 str, you probably don't want to get armor until you can afford Mithral stuff.
As a summoner/ranged attacker you might be able to get away with a 9 con...but probably not. Watch out for Area of Effect damage.