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The title more or less says it all, but for details, my halfling, mounted on a riding dog, charged a beast wielding his longsword. Can the dog make a bite along with the halfling's sword attack?
This is about as simple as the mounted charge questions come. I'm not talking down to you, but as godsDMit alludes to, it gets more complicated very quickly.
Yes, the sword wielding halfling and dog can both attack with the charge. The mount needs to be Combat Trained. The halfling needs to make a Ride check to Fight with a Combat-Trained mount, DC 10. If the mount isn't Combat Trained, it rapidly enters "make it up on the fly/houserule" territory; I would borrow the DC 25 for pushing via Handle Animal, but that's just sorta shooting from the hip on my part. If the halfling fails the Ride check, only one can attack.
It's a DC 20 Ride check to control a untrained mount in combat as a move action. If you fail it becomes a full-round action.
Also, remember that most mounts will only attack humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals unless you push them (a full-round action). Teaching them to attack other types of creatures takes an additional trick which a mount may or may not have.
Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for horses or ponies trained for combat.
So the rider isn't going to attack, I would even rule that neither (s)he nor the mount will attack.
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Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for horses or ponies trained for combat.So the rider isn't going to attack, I would even rule that neither (s)he nor the mount will attack.
I wasn't considering the uncontrolled mount control issue, and yes it's also in play. "While in battle" is a phrase that I've seen interpreted in a wide variety of ways, from "any time in initiative" to "if threatened." It certainly seems to apply in OP's question, tho.
If failing the check, then I agree that neither is attacking, but if the control mount check succeeds, I don't see why the rider can't attack, nor why the mount can't attack. However, I recognize that the action interactions between rider and mount are vague and subject to a lot of variance.
Edit: just had an "Oh yeah," moment...editing this, pls wait if replying.
Ok...forgetting that rider attacking with mount is only for mounts that are combat trained. So, if mount must be controlled in battle due to not being combat trained, the two can't both attack regardless.
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If the halfling fails the Ride check, only one can attack.Has this changed?
I thought that the check was for the rider to be able to attack and that failing the check would have the rider not attack rather than a choice between the two.
-James
It hasn't changed other than in the clarification of what mounts it's possible with. If rider attacks first and fails the check...then the mount can't attack. If the mount attack first and the rider then attempts to attack, he needs the check or can't attack. Based on range, the order is a choice.
I'd generally agree that the order has to be decided prior to the check.
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I guess I always played it that since if you failed the check you couldn't attack that you had to make the check before you made your attack otherwise the mount could not.
Otherwise its easy to bypass this, as you demonstrate.
"Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action."
I understand the check to be if you both can attack. The fail result is that you can't both attack. But, I suspect that you'd agree that the mounted combat rules are so distributed and vague that variation from one person's understanding to that of another is hardly a shock. :)
If your halflings riding dog is Battle Trained, you only need to make a DC 10 ride check and you can have your war trained dog attack with you on any attack you make.
If it is war/battle trained you never need to make ride checks to keep it 'controlled in battle' as it relates to that titled section in Ride, as that only applies to non war trained mounts.
Remember that attack itself is an animal trick that needs to be trained, so if your mount is not war trained or at least knows the attack trick, it won't do it at all, and some creature types it still won't attack without extra training.
If your War Dog is War Trained then a DC 10 ride check allows it to attack along with you on a mounted charge. Since it has charge it will get one attack (with a primary natural attack in the dog's case) at a +2 to hit and suffer a -2 to AC until the start of it's next turn, just like you will.
It took me some serious research and comparing a few things...
This is how Combat works with RaW from what I understand.
It goes in this order.
Untrained Combat Mount
Roll Ride Check DC 20
Success means you get to actually charge
You get to attack... As your mount Rides by the target you can attack at any point in the move.
If your mount is Charging Directly at the Target
Grey Area 1 ... Technically it would be a slam attack if allowed by the GM or use Combat Manuever Overrun Bull Rush etc...on a Failure your mount does not move at all because you can not direct it and it is a full round action to keep it from fleeing.
Now here is where the grey area comes in again... If you follow the rules to the T, You and your mount are Considered 1 Creature, Your mount is treated as your movement and you are using the Stanadard Action. Based on this if you choose to attack your mount can not, If you let your mount attack You can not.
Just from what I have read... Any further Ideas please share.
Incorrect. You are not treated as one creature. You are two creatures who happen to share the same space. Read the entire section in Combat about Mounted Combat, and you'll see several examples that prove that you don't share actions.
For instance, you can cast spells in the middle of your mount's movement, even if the mount takes a full-round action to run.
So if your mount charges you both can get an attack, as long as you succeeded on your Ride check, and even if the Ride check took a move action. You spent a move action on your ride check, the mount took a full-round action to charge, and you spend a standard action to attack at the end of the charge, gaining the bonuses and penalties associated with the charge. This is also explained in the Combat While Mounted subsection.