Quick question: Can the damage output from flurry of blows be improved by Strong Jaw?
I ask since, although one's fists are a natural attack, in the text of flurry of blows says: " A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks."
Thus at the moment, an enlarged 11th level monk goes from d10 to 2d8 damage with every hit.
IF strong jaw works, I am assuming it goes from 2d8 to 4d8.
However, this makes the monk very powerful with multiple attacks a round with flurry, with 5 attacks dishing out 4d8 damage, before STR bonuses etc!
I have tried in vain to find out the answer to this....
PLUS: would improved natural attack be possible for a monk as well? Or has this been changed too (as a result of the above wording?)
Thanks
Ben
PLUS: would improved natural attack be possible for a monk as well? Or has this been changed too (as a result of the above wording?)
I know the answer to this one at least; improved natural attack is a monster feat so it's not available to player-characters. That said, we're not using improved natural attack for the monk, although one of the animal companions might be using it.
Improved Natural Attack has been specifically errated to not work with unarmed strikes. However, Strong Jaw has no such restriction, and as such, would work with monk's strike since they count as "... both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."
Put it this way: If magic fang works, then why wouldn't strong jaw work?
Also, your damage die calculations are correct.
Thanks. Thing is, if improved natural attack can't work with flurry, then is it possible to magically enhance your natural attacks with Magic Fang or Strong Jaw - since as the rules of Flurry of Blows says: "A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks." Thus....???? is it only possible to buff a one off attack with your fists, and not with flurry of blows? I am trying to get my head round the legal language of flurry!!
Thanks. Thing is, if improved natural attack can't work with flurry, then is it possible to magically enhance your natural attacks with Magic Fang or Strong Jaw - since as the rules of Flurry of Blows says: "A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks." Thus....???? is it only possible to buff a one off attack with your fists, and not with flurry of blows? I am trying to get my head round the legal language of flurry!!
If a monk gets a claw attack, he cannot use the claw attack in addition to his unarmed attack in a flurry.
Unarmed attack/monk weapons are all that are allowed during a flurry. If you can buff your unarmed attack (size, magic fang, strong jaw) you can still flurry with it, as the buff does not change what kind of attack it is.
This is a misunderstanding. His unarmed strike is not a natural weapon. It counts as a natural weapon when you try to benefit from a spell or effect that would enhance natural weapons.
So when you use strong jaw, it counts as a natural weapon and benefits.
Flurry of blows does not improve his unarmed strike, it just gives him more unarmed strikes on a full attack as if he were twf'ing. So there is no conflict here. Also that phrase is not referring to his unarmed strikes. He cannot make natural attacks in addition to hit flurry of blow attacks.
Normally on a full attack, you can make natural attacks(as secondary natural attacks) in addition to your regular weapon attacks. So if you were twf'ing with 2 shortswords and you had a bite and a slam attack, you could make all your shortsword attacks and then make a bite and slam attack at -5.
That part of flurry of blows is just clarifying how a full attack using flurry of...
Thanks thepuregamer and Tarantula. Issue cleared up. I will now go and weep into my cup! 4d8 + d6 electricity x5 per round it is then!!!! My poor critters! lol!!
Don't worry too much. Strong jaw only lasts minutes and thus it is very unlikely that they will have it up before many encounters.
The Mage has cast it using permanency! So until he meets a critter/ npc with dispel magic, it stays! :S
The Mage has cast it using permanency! So until he meets a critter/ npc with dispel magic, it stays! :S
It's a magic item rather than permanency, but yes, dispel magic is a worry. ;)
The Mage has cast it using permanency! So until he meets a critter/ npc with dispel magic, it stays! :SIt's a magic item rather than permanency, but yes, dispel magic is a worry. ;)
aha! Yes, an enlarged monk, doing 8d8 damage (+d6 electric from gauntlets) with his fists 5 times a round - as it turns out. Forgot to factor in his Monks Robes! ARGH!
You won't see that too often, as enlarge has some penalties to it, and 4d8 is plenty to be getting on with!
You won't see that too often, as enlarge has some penalties to it, and 4d8 is plenty to be getting on with!
Thank The Lord!
So the player has a wondrous item that continuously buffs strong jaw?
Yes, enchanted gloves. They're not a standard item, but were created via the magic item creation rules by the party mage.
So the player has a wondrous item that continuously buffs strong jaw?Yes, enchanted gloves. They're not a standard item, but were created via the magic item creation rules by the party mage.
Once you start allowing custom-designed wonderous items, you may as well throw out the standard power curves and bump the CR of all encounters. Yes, the rules exist, but they're designed more for GMs to create new magic items for their worlds than for players to create the perfect item for their party.
This is not to say that you shouldn't allow it, or that you're wrong if you do. It's just that you need to be aware of the change in power level that it enables.
This has become apparent as the campaign has gone on. Next time, we're going to cut back on item creation.
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There's always a way to fix this stuff in-game.
Just talk to your players about how all the custom gear is throwing game balance off and making it extremely difficult for you to dm a fun game. Let them know that you're going to be removing it through storyline, but that you'll arrange for them to be able to replace them with equal value from pre-existing items.
It results in one less-than-thrilling session, and many more awesome ones.
As long as you explain the reasons why you're taking their shinies away, you should be fine. I had this happen to me once. It wasn't too terrible, and the game got much better afterwards.
Ah well, Ben's the GM, and I'm the player of the monk.
I think we've agreed to play this campaign out, then start afresh in a new campaign with all we've learned.
Ah well, Ben's the GM, and I'm the player of the monk.
I think we've agreed to play this campaign out, then start afresh in a new campaign with all we've learned.
That's probably the best way, provided the end is somewhere in sight. And in the meantime, have fun being amazingly powerful.
The wheels are definitely flying off the campaign, but it's remained fun nonetheless. Even the GM enjoys it, although he struggles to provide a challenge for our characters. It's all about the spectacle!