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To what extent does the skill Spellcraft allow a PC to identify magical properties – how much does the DM reveal?
Whilst playing Crown of the Kobold King the party found the Grasp of Droskar gauntlet. They were a little leery of it due to its description and the circumstances and surroundings in which it was located. Although it’s not specifically mentioned the gauntlet strikes me as being a cursed item of sorts. The Paladin used Detect Evil but this didn’t help as the item doesn’t give off an evil aura. Spellcraft, working in tandem with Detect Magic revealed that it exuded moderate transmutation and divination auras but that’s all.
What is the mechanic for revealing further information about the item? Indeed, is there one? Can the PC employ a skill or spell etc that reveals the exact nature of how an item will behave if activated? Following successful checks could I reveal that placing the glove on would cause excruciating pain that their appendage will curl into a tight fist and then slowly transform to supernaturally hard black stone, along with the various modifiers?
Thanks.
Detect Magic and a successful Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the magic item's caster level) should give all the informationn about the item. If failed, try again the next day (or with another PC).
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What Nixda said, but add +10 to the DC of the check to find out if it is cursed, as in...
That's not RAW (I believe) but I like it.
Of course, the GM is within rights to say the item is unique and give vague/ambiguous results for the Spellcraft.
IMCs and in general, when a player uses Spellcraft I provide the full information on the item or spell (if they're trying to identify a spell just cast or a lingering magical aura). But if the item or spell is a "one off", I feel justified in making the DC for full determination higher. Typically I will add +10 for an item or spell that the PC has never seen or heard of before but is capable of making, and +20 for an item they could not create. So a PC with Craft Wondrous Item who sees/finds a unique glove will have a harder time identifying it but it's still possible. And if they rolled less than the modified DC but more than the normal DC, I'll at least give them basic operation information. (Just like Stubs suggests with his "cursed" modifier.) Such information usually includes how to activate it.
If they fail the modified DC, they won't know the item's unique or special abilities. Although activating an item might trigger one of the special effects that they don't know about -- that depends on the particular item.
Also, using UMD to activate an item that hasn't been completely identified may accidentally trigger one of the "unknown" functions instead of the one expected by the skill user! I had a custom item in a campaign that included an effect similar to "Shout". While a PC was trying to UMD a different ability they actually got "Shout" and all of the players were like, "What?! How did THAT happen!?" But they were in the middle of an encounter so didn't have time to really ponder it. :)
I find that the above makes the Identify and Analyze Dweomer spells more relevant. Otherwise the Spellcraft modifiers go up so quickly that by L10 there's no need for the spells.
What Nixda said, but add +10 to the DC of the check to find out if it is cursed, as in...That's not RAW (I believe) but I like it.
Actually, it is.
With a successful Spellcraft check, a character has identified the magic item. He or she knows what it is, what it does, and any limitations it may have. If found in the Core Rulebook, just tell players the name and they can look the item up. If its something from another source, I try to have a printout or copy of the description to hand to the player that gets the item.
As an aside, the description for the Spellcraft skill does not state that a character knows if the check failed, and the item was misidentified. A GM can choose to make a concealed identification roll on behalf of the character, and provide a false identification should the roll fail to achieve the DC.
Thanks people... some good observations.
I suppose there are two strands to this – how much is revealed (and the flavour seems to be everything. Personally I thought the RAW was somewhat opaque by just stating its ‘properties’. This is open to all sorts of interpretation, which is fine; I understand that interpretation is an integral part of the game). The other strand is identifying what is ‘cursed’.
According to the RAW (page 536) cursed items are identified like any other magical item with one exception: unless the check made to identify the item exceeds the DC by 10 or more, the curse is not detected. If the check is not made by 10 but still succeeds, all that is revealed is the magical items ORIGINAL intent. That’s all well and good but turning to Droskar’s Gauntlet what would its original intent be? There is no subterfuge or disguise on its part – it doesn’t lie about itself or masquerade as something beneficial... if that makes sense. How would you reveal its properties without alluding to it being cursed?
Perhaps this - if a successful Spellcraft check was made at DC 15 + 10 (the items caster level) I would reveal that the gauntlet is magically designed to smash or break hard substances and can form stone into objects. If the check exceed 25 by 10 then I’d reveal its exact nature, drawbacks and all!
Perhaps this - if a successful Spellcraft check was made at DC 15 + 10 (the items caster level) I would reveal that the gauntlet is magically designed to smash or break hard substances and can form stone into objects. If the check exceed 25 by 10 then I’d reveal its exact nature, drawbacks and all!
First, it's important to note that a grasp of Droskar is not a cursed item. A successful check would reveal both it beneficial and harmful effects, as they are both part of the item's original intent. That's just how the item was created; Droskar is not a very friendly deity.
That said, if it were cursed the process you described sounds about right. Building off my earlier statement, I'd prepare two item descriptions. The first would only include the item's beneficial properties. It would look like a complete description entry, and I would give it to the players if they failed to identify the item as cursed.
The second description would be complete, including the cursed properties, and would be given to players that met the higher DC.
Heaven's Agent - I agree with all you have said but is it not cursed on the basis that it is a magical item with some sort of negative impact, notwithstanding the GoD was made intentionally? It makes sense that an item created by a deity or whomever, which in the hands of a being other than the intended recipient, could amount to a cursed object? You will note in its description that the gauntlet cannot be removed without a successful casting of remove curse... or similar spell. The imputation is that it could be regarded as cursed. I agree with you that preparing descriptions as to its properties should be two fold depending on the result and not one disclosure based on the usual terms of success minus the additional +10 DC, but this of course presupposes that the DM has made a decision as to whether it’s cursed! Aaaargh my head aches!
Good, I'm happy that having thrashed it out I'm clearer as to what to do next time this situation comes up - unless another view is put forward that changes that!
Cheers.
Cursed items are either made to fool someone, or something in their making has gone wrong, so a pc with high but not high enough spellcraft might be fooled (while a pc with low spellcraft just had no idea what the thing might be in the first place).
Think of animals using some kind of disguise, like a fly with black and yellow stripes imitating a wasp.
Knowledge Insects -2: no idea what kind of animal that might be or what it might do.
Knowledge Insects +5: Take care, it stings!
Knowledge Insects +15: Ah, it's really harmless!
The Grasp of Droskar doesn't try to fool someone on purpose, nor did something go wrong in its creation. So somebody with high enough spellcraft to know about these kinds of items would know about their usual downsides as well.
I suppose I just repeated in an unnecessary convoluted way what Heaven's Agent already stated. Oh my.
Nixda is correct on all counts. The abilities of a grasp of Droskar are all intentional, a supposed boon from the deity to his most devout followers. That one of the spells that can remove the item happens to be remove curse does not mean it is a cursed item. What you are seeing as negative effects are simply the manner in which the positive effects of the item function.
As for not being able to remove the item at will, that's intentional as well. Droskar's not a nice guy; a true follower would not want it to be removed. Additionally, if a former follower left Droskar's flock, not being able to take the item off would be punishment for abandoning the deity.
Fair enough, I understand what is being said and I don't fall out with it. If we decide it's not cursed per-se we reveal its 'properties' using the aforementioned Spellcraft mechanics.
Given the Alignment of the articles creator perhaps it should exude an evil aura (if actively examined for that presence). In the description bar for GoD there's no word of an evil aura. I've not got the rules to hand but IIRC magical item aura's pertain only to schools of magic as opposed to what, if appropriate, the object 'stands for' i.e Law, Chaos, Good, Evil.
I've not got the rules to hand but IIRC magical item aura's pertain only to schools of magic as opposed to what, if appropriate, the object 'stands for' i.e Law, Chaos, Good, Evil.
That's correct; unless an item's description states it possesses additional auras, it detects solely based on its associated school(s) of magic.
You might also consider allowing a Knowledge (religion) check to provide information on it, since a grasp of Droskar is so closely linked to a specific deity's worship. But this, like anything outside the core, would be a house rule.