I am not sure this is exactly the right place, I try anyway.
The party encountered Rolth yesterday...
...in the Temple of Urgathoa. The Temple was on alert.
The entered the room with the vats, facing 3 doctors, 6 Priests and a buffed Rolth (hovering above the walkways).
Round one: Rolth takes 30+ damage from the ranger. Blindness from Rolth is saved by ranger. Group attacks goons. Cleric heals Rolth.
Round two: Rolth takes another 30+ damage from ranger and ports out...
My trouble is, am I too thick to offer them a challenge?
I don't think the ranger is over powered, but she always seems to win the day. Precise shot + rapid shot + many shot + fav. enemy (humans)
at level 7:
Attack +7base +3Dex +1w.focus +1weapon +4fav.enemy -2rapid shot =
+14/+14/+8 4x 1d8 +6 (42) points of damage
Is that correct even?
I am at a loss how I could have made this encounter more challenging without killing them all outright.
The sorcerer of the party went down after being hit by a hold person from a cleric and then took 2 alchemists bombs. it is not like nothing happened.
The cavalier is a little unhappy because the ranger (in his view) always takes out the boss and leaves the dross for the party.
|
Are the clerics of the type that can add on a defensive magic to the boss? Shield of Faith, Obscurring mist? Maybe one has shatter and thinks "oh, that's a lot of arrows, shatter the bow so i don't get one to the face"? Or heck, a wizard with lvl 2 spells gets protection from arrows if you have one of those handy. Even if it doesn't block all the damage that can pretty well shrug off a lot.
I admit I am reluctant to change the NPCs so they can "disable" one specific player.
Maybe it is the general trouble I am having with the party and how they act. They are one-trick ponies...
I don't want to kill them off, but I want them to face a challenge and that hasn't happened in a while, mainly because of the ranger's damage output. Seven Days plays to the ranger's strengths and melee classes' weaknesses: loads of casters and ranged monsters.
How do I stop the "shooting fish in barrel" situation?
I feel I get angry looks when enemy casters cast control spells like hold person.
|
|
Well any caster is going to use spells like that to win. Yeah you don't want to fight your players, but your enemy casters are gonna go on and try their hardest to win so if they're a little mean it should be expected.
And look at creatures with piercing DR. Blobs for example. Or sneaky creatures that can ambush and set up traps. Or perhaps something that could really mess up a ranged fighter, a guy with a tower shield.
Heck you get three knights, all with tower shields and you have a living wall that is actually cover, not just AC. Any person with a bow will be cursing if they have to fight a guy behind a wall. If those shield guys are smart they'll have a quick unlock and spikes on the shield bottom so they can place their tower shields like personal defensive barriers and fight behind them to cover their flanks. High class mercenaries right there.
It looks like I will have to retool and change every encounter from now on. This irks me lots.
To a certain degree, I have been unhappy with the party for some time and they with the AP or me, I am not sure.
I have invested some time to convert the AP to PF and to add some storylines and flavour to the pre-existing material.
NPCs in my campaigns are not clue giving automatons and NPCs are actually capable of lying, cheating, ignorance and they possess personal motives.
This seems to vex the sorcerer's player, he thinks I never give them any information. I told him, they often ask either the wrong person or the wrong questions, mostly both at the same time. And they are very antagonistic towards "outsiders". Conversations quickly turn into interrogations.
On the other hand, the let obvious cues fall to the wayside.
Two players have a tendency to stall plot development by advancing or beginning useless sidequests. So that pre-planned encounters do not happen or are post-poned. I don't want to railroad them more than I already have to.
You are correct, Rolth and the priests are ill-equipped to handle missile attacks.
As Gregg Carrier mentioned: Obscuring Mist (cleric-1) is a great spell to ensure melee, not missile combats.
But a couple of cheap (20gp) Smokesticks can simulate that situation as well.
Another great tactic for Rolth would be to use his magic missile wand from behind cover (+4 AC) or while prone (+4 AC against missiles) or both (including "improved cover") which would give him a whopping +8 AC against your ranger!
Even with your ranger's +14 to hit, against Rolth's buffed-up 21 AC (now 29 with cover/prone), your Ranger's chance to hit has been reduced to 25% (15 or better on d20).
Precise shot + rapid shot + many shot + fav. enemy (humans)
at level 7:
Attack +7base +3Dex +1w.focus +1weapon +4fav.enemy -2rapid shot =
+14/+14/+8 4x 1d8 +6 (42) points of damage
Don't know if you are playing 3.5 or PF but from the 3.5 SRD:
It must be PFRPG -- note that he also gets a bonus on attack rolls from his favored enemy (which is not a 3.5 thing).
Precise shot + rapid shot + many shot + fav. enemy (humans)
at level 7:
Attack +7base +3Dex +1w.focus +1weapon +4fav.enemy -2rapid shot =
+14/+14/+8 4x 1d8 +6 (42) points of damage
For Pathfinder, I think it is more like this:
7th-level Ranger BAB = +7/+2
Bonuses to attack (+3Dex +1w.focus +1weapon +4fav.enemy) = +9, so attacks increased to +16/+11
Rapid Shot: (-2 penalty to all attacks, but gain extra attack) = +14/+14/+9
Manyshot: (first attack fires two arrows - but no extra roll to hit) = +14(counts as 2 hits)/+14/+9
So the maximum times he could hit = 4 (at 1d8+6) so max dam = 56 (ave 40)
Note: all of the Ranger's multi-attacks are based on a full-attack actions, so if you force him to move, he only gets 1 attack/rnd.
Ranged powerhouse stuff.
Intelligent opponents will adapt to combat situations quickly, given the opportunity.
Example: Our enemies have an outstanding and deadly archer on their side and he's decimating our forces. What do we do?
1)Take cover and fight from cover.
2)Alter our tactics to mass damage on the greatest threat (i.e. the ranger). Perhaps that hold person + bombs combo should have targeted the ranger rather than the sorcerer.
3) He's a great archer. How is he in hand-to-hand combat? Let's mob him and find out. While we're at it, let's see if we can't sunder that bow before he gets a chance to drop it.
As for Rolth, he got away and become a recurring thorn in my PCs collective sides. He's got a high Int, so he'll take the time to research spells and collect items that will give him an edge in future conflicts with them, having first hand experience with their tactics and abilities.
|
I sympathize with your plight. It is an excellent AP overall so I hope you stick with it and manage to work out the group dynamic issues.
There is lots of great advice for how to handle your tactical situation from people here. Remember that there will be other times when other types of characters will shine. The higher level you get the more DR comes into play and archers start to dwindle in efficacy. The ranger in my group who dominated for the first book or two really struggled in book 5 when everything he hit just shrugged his arrows off like they were nothing.
Don't hesitate as a GM to tailor encounters to your party. Don't employ the same tricks over and over so it becomes predictable and feels like you're constantly penalizing the same player, but absolutely design encounters so that they challenge your players and make the game fun. If you notice the Ranger dominating one encounter after another, then intentionally set up a situation for another character to shine. That isn't cheating it is good GMing.
Another goodway to thwart archers is windwall, or battlefield control spells in general can be used to mitigate his effectiveness.
If the archer steals the day with his marksmanship every single time, it's normal that the other players will be pissed after a while.
From the POV of the ranger: he built a good archery build for this adventure path, so why should he be penalized? He plays a hero famous for his skill with the bow, and that is what the game is about.
I for one would recommend bringing this topic to they players, and confront them with the problem together. You can also try talking with him first before talking with the whole group, to solve the problem. Maybe the ranger sees the problem and is persuaded to choose some other feats, or swap some of them. Maybe the group gets a redo of the characters they are playing, so they all at the same level of effectiveness. This way, you don't have to actively work against the ranger, and he doesn't feel punished for choosing the right options for his character.
I have invested some time to convert the AP to PF and to add some storylines and flavour to the pre-existing material.
There is a CotCT conversion (3.5->PF) by Steev42 here
First of all, thanks for all the excellent advice!
That being said, I've had some talks with the players and I think we can work it out.
It seems one of the problems is the fighter being sick and tired of "hitting it with a stick (or earthbreaker for that matter)" in addition to the ranger "gunning" down the BBEGs.
There is a CotCT conversion (3.5->PF) by Steev42 hereI have invested some time to convert the AP to PF and to add some storylines and flavour to the pre-existing material.
I know about these conversions, still I made my own. First of all to accomodate my party and secondly, because I think they are... uh... "wrong". This is not to say, they are done badly, they are really cool, but they are simply not right for me.
As far as I understood, in PF the NPCs CR is his Level +1. So in keeping with the AP's CRs, I'd need to raise all NPC levels by one OR keep the levels and then reduce the CR by one.I chose to do the first, because I allowed 25pts point-buy, which I have come to regret somehow.
Don't forget soft cover (that's what lackey's are for) to boost Rolth's AC, and dogpile the archer with Melee guys. Since he's flying he can easily lie down behind lackey's for a +8 boost. If he needs to move he doesn't need to get up, he just flys away.
Also have Rolth move so that the Ranger has to move to get a shot, reducing his attacks to one per round. Behind a vat works well.
Also remember that it is relatively easy to sunder a bow, the person wielding the bow doesn't get an Aoo so anyone can do it. You don't even have to destroy it, just damage it to create some penalties.
As for conversion, if you allowed a 25 point buy, you should also up the stats on the things the players fight. They were all made on the rough equivalent of 15 points. The difference between 15 and 20 isn't so bad, but between 15 and 25 can be noticable.