More Monk-y Business

[tortiekat]

I just kicked off a campaign that, because of the fluff (I'm drawing inspiration but not necessarily actual details from various Indian and Asian sources) needs to have monks be at least...somewhat viable. I know. I thought about crying too. But I dove in and came up with a few ideas.

My first fix that I've pondered (and luckily I still have time to change my mind, since the only monk in the party is 2nd level) is simple: a monk *always* gets to take his bonus movement. Even if making a full-round attack. Even if there's impediments magical or physical. I'm not sure yet if I'll go all the way to make it a freebie "ring of free action" ability, but that's the general gist.

Next, I had the same idea everyone has: let the Wisdom modifier stack with Strength (or Dexterity, for Weapons Finesse/Ranged combat builds) for combat. That seems relatively benign to me; it still leaves the monk behind in the arms race vis-a-vis a martial character going two-handed with a weapon with qualities attached to it, but it does mean that the monk can actually contemplate trying to hurt people.

But then I thought, Wisdom stacks with Dex for AC already; I'm going to stack it with Strength for To Hit and probably damage; what if I stack it with Constitution for hit points?

At that point I balked somewhat--I'm guesstimating that it would give a monk around 80 more HP at 20th than a full-BAB PC with equivalent stats (i.e., primary Strength and secondary Con vs the monk's primary Wisdom and secondary Strength). That seems like a lot. It *is* a lot. But then I thought about Treantmonk's summary of the monk as a fighter--"You should see the other guy"--and I wondered if it wouldn't be too unbalancing.

I'm also thinking about a milder version: the Wisdom mod is a bonus to your attack, and also gives bonus *non-lethal damage* (the rationale is that this damage comes from pins and holds--also, I don't mind the extra paperwork), and you can *substitute* Wisdom for Con instead of stacking them.

So I dunno. I have a few weeks before next session to tinker with this stuff...and I was wondering if any of the (more experienced) game-tinkerers here had some thoughts on those ideas.

[AlanM]

A bit more comprehensive of a rewrite, but if you are looking for a more viable monk, may I suggest TOZ's?

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[tortiekat]

Wow! That's a fantastic rewrite.

I'm torn, though--I play in one incredibly houseruled campaign (to the point where I now assume that I have to ask about every. single. rule. in *Core*), so I'm trying to keep close to Core for this campaign--less my somewhat arbitrary exclusion of half the Core races, clerics *and* druids (in favor of a Pathfinderized shaman from OA class), and, oh yeah, spell points.*

Nertz. Maybe I *should* use this rewrite. :O

TOZ's rewrite is definitely something to ponder, though it might be a bit too Tome-of-Battle-y for my personal tastes. I might offer it to the player of the monk to see what he thinks...

--Cat

*To be fair, most of my work has been *excluding* things or reworking races--it's surprising how much kender look like halflings, *ahem*--than rewriting the rules. Except for spell points, but even there I'm just using the UA rules. Which I know suck. And I don't care. Because I can hit casters with the nerf hammer all day and they'll still run the game.

[snobi]

tortiekat wrote:

My first fix that I've pondered (and luckily I still have time to change my mind, since the only monk in the party is 2nd level) is simple: a monk *always* gets to take his bonus movement. Even if making a full-round attack. Even if there's impediments magical or physical.

Good idea.

tortiekat wrote:

and you can *substitute* Wisdom for Con instead of stacking them.

My character is WIS-based and has a feat for this. Getting it for free would be pretty powerful. Maybe make it an alternative for another monk ability?

[tortiekat]

Wisdom for Con is only for hit points, although my girlfriend and I were kicking around the idea of allowing Wisdom to substitute for the base ability of all the saves. That's probably too powerful :D

I don't mind doing Wis for HP for the monk because his major issues are MAD and being ill-suited to his combat role. Basing everything on Wisdom *is* pretty powerful, but it gives him some flavor that the other classes don't get...and I'm keeping monks as a 3/4 BAB class. So they have to pay for that.

And even with those changes, cleric/druid still kick his ass. ;-)