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I'm sure this has been asked before, but:
Selling a Spellbook
Captured spellbooks can be sold for an amount equal to half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within.
What does "the cost of purchasing" refer to? The cost of the casting of the spell, the cost of a scroll, or other?
It refers to the cost of purchasing a scroll. Basically spellbooks have a "price" equal to the total cost to create them, spell by spell, and a sell value of half that.
For example, a first level spell in a spellbook has a "price" of 25gp (cost of the scroll) + 10gp (cost to scribe the scroll) = 35gp, giving a spellbook containing only a single first level spell a sell value of 17gp, 5sp.
It refers to the cost of purchasing a scroll. Basically spellbooks have a "price" equal to the total cost to create them, spell by spell, and a sell value of half that.
The purchasing part does seem like it could be more open to interpretation. Although, right before the Magic chapter explains the cost of inscribing spells, it explains how much to pay a wizard for borrowing their spellbook, so I'm guessing it is referring to that cost.
And that's why I'm asking. Which is it? One of these, or other? (There is a pretty big price difference between the two.)
Upon careful consideration it is both costs IMO. Because it says "Captured spellbooks can be sold for an amount equal to half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within."
To me this implies the cost of purchasing the scroll and the cost for inscribing it into a spell book.
It can't only be purchasing the scroll because there is no inscription fee, it can't only be inscription because there is no fee to acquire the spell while you inscribe, just a static number that you pay when you inscribe a new spell.
So IMO it would be (Scroll + Inscription Cost)/2
How would you purchase a spell into your head? *Serious question, no disrespect*
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This is why I'm pretty sure it's just the cost of copying the spell from another Wizard's spellbook.
But that is just the cost of inscribing. The question is: what is the cost of purchasing?
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a ScrollA wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. He cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until he gains another rank in Spellcraft. If the spell was from a scroll, a failed Spellcraft check does not cause the spell to vanish.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
[...]
Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook
Once a wizard understands a new spell, he can record it into his spellbook.Time: The process takes 1 hour per spell level. Cantrips (0 levels spells) take 30 minutes to record.
Space in the Spellbook: A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has 100 pages.
Materials and Costs: The cost for writing a new spell into a spellbook depends on the level of the spell, as noted on Table: Spell Level and Writing Costs. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for spells he gains for free at each new level.
I fail to see how there is no cost associated with the scroll copying process.
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Two ways to interpret this.
Purchasing and inscribing the spells could refer to purchasing the blank spellbook and inscribing the spells from memory. I think this to be accurate, personally.
It could be purchasing scrolls and inscribing the spells.
It could be purchasing the blank spellbook, scrolls, and inscribing the spells.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
This is the only part i could find from your links that referenced half the cost. But, I don't think its accurate.
You have to pay the wizard to see their spellbook and then copy them with the material cost. However, this is a copying fee. Copying =/= purchasing.
But that is just the cost of inscribing. The question is: what is the cost of purchasing?This is why I'm pretty sure it's just the cost of copying the spell from another Wizard's spellbook.
No, it is NOT just the cost if inscribing. The cost of purchasing is specifically outlined in what I linked. It is half the cost of inscribing.
A level 1 spell would cost 5 gold to purchase, but would cost 10 more gold for you to inscribe it into your spellbook. Total cost would be 15 (or only 5 if you are using a Blessed Book).
A level 2 spell would cost 20 gold to purchase, but would cost 40 more gold for you to inscribe it into your spellbook. Total cost would be 60 (or only 20 if you are using a Blessed Book).
Continue down the line.
3 - 45 buy + 90 inscribe
4 - 80 buy + 160 inscribe
5 - 125 buy + 250 inscribe
6 - 180 buy + 360 inscribe
7 - 245 buy + 490 inscribe
8 - 320 buy + 640 inscribe
9 - 405 buy + 810 inscribeAnd if you think that looks cheap, it really does add up.
I am not seeing where you are getting these numbers and I followed the link. Where does it say a level 1 spell is 5gp to purchase?
You have to pay the wizard to see their spellbook and then copy them with the material cost. However, this is a copying fee. Copying =/= purchasing.Um, have you ever played a Wizard, or do you even know how they work? Copying the spell to your spellbook IS purchasing. It's not like a +1 sword that must be passed around and can only be possessed by one person at a time. I have Teleport. I charge you some gold to copy it. Now we both have Teleport. You purchased the spell from me by purchasing the right to copy it. Yay!
Damn it, don't get me talking about buying copies and making analogies with digital media. I won't do it! I won't!
Copying the spell to your book is inscribing, not purchasing unless you are saying they(inscribing and purchasing) are one in the same, and the devs made things more complicated than they needed to by using one word when one would do.
See you got me doubting myself, but now wraithstrike is in my boat. I'm sure it's not a boat he wants to be in.
Um, have you ever played a Wizard, or do you even know how they work? Copying the spell to your spellbook IS purchasing.
Have you ever used words? I have. Copying is not purchasing.. they even mean different things.
Now you could say that the purchase price might be the price of inscribing + copying, but that is not spelled out anywhere.
See you got me doubting myself, but now wraithstrike is in my boat. I'm sure it's not a boat he wants to be in.
Um, have you ever played a Wizard, or do you even know how they work? Copying the spell to your spellbook IS purchasing.Have you ever used words? I have. Copying is not purchasing..
I have always sold the book for half of what it cost to put the spells in the book according to the list price in the magic section, but I never noticed the words "purchasing and inscribing" before today either.
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll
A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. He cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until he gains another rank in Spellcraft. If the spell was from a scroll, a failed Spellcraft check does not cause the spell to vanish.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
This is the price to which "purchasing" refers. When you add a spell to your book, you have to copy it from somewhere. Unless you have a scroll or a captured book, you usually have to pay another Wizard for the privilege of copying it from his book.
A level 1 spell costs 10gp to inscribe and an additional 5gp if you have to purchase it from another Wizard. When you sell a book, both those costs are counted in the market price.
Edit: Also, ninja'd about nine times. Damn, I take too long to post
@ Quantum Steve
I see that there is a fee (cost) for copying the spellbooks, however, is that considered the purchase price for a spell? How does one buy a spell? You can obtain it through copying, but is that the default price when talking about a spell?
Either way, we're helping the chap that wrote this post as he should account for both a purchase price and an inscription price.
I am not seeing where you are getting these numbers and I followed the link. Where does it say a level 1 spell is 5gp to purchase?Did you scroll down just a little? I'm getting the inscription numbers from the link you merely claim to have followed.
I'm extrapolating the half inscription cost from the statement "In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more."
It's right there. The cost for inscription under "Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook".
That list is for writing new spells into the book which is the same an inscribing. Now where is the purchase price located?
in·scribe (n-skrb)
tr.v. in·scribed, in·scrib·ing, in·scribes
1.
a. To write, print, carve, or engrave (words or letters) on or in a surface.
b. To mark or engrave (a surface) with words or letters.
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll
A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. He cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until he gains another rank in Spellcraft. If the spell was from a scroll, a failed Spellcraft check does not cause the spell to vanish.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
This is the price to which "purchasing" refers. When you add a spell to your book, you have to copy it from somewhere. Unless you have a scroll or a captured book, you usually have to pay another Wizard for the privilege of copying it from his book.
A level 1 spell costs 10gp to inscribe and an additional 5gp if you have to purchase it from another Wizard. When you sell a book, both those costs are counted in the market price.
Edit: Also, ninja'd about nine times. Damn, I take too long to post
Thanks Steve.
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It's the argument between purchasing the spell and copying the spell.
There is *no* purchase price for a spell, because there is no way to buy a spell. However, you can borrow a spellbook and copy it, or purchase a scroll and scribe it to learn it.
The idea they're fronting is that you can't actually own a spell, you can only learn how to cast it. You can buy a computer game, but you don't own it. You only purchase the right to use it. You can buy a textbook, but you don't *own* the knowledge within. Though you can use it however you like.
However, since there is no purchase price, and only a handful of ways to share/transfer the value of a spell, the wording is likely applying to one of those ways.
Or simplify it.
As the Dm, decide how the spellbook got the spells into it. Then use that to determine the cost of the book. It's entirely possible that one spellbook of first level spells would cost more than another one because one was created through borrowing, and one through purchasing scrolls.
As the Dm, decide how the spellbook got the spells into it. Then use that to determine the cost of the book. It's entirely possible that one spellbook of first level spells would cost more than another one because one was created through borrowing, and one through purchasing scrolls.
Variable answer! Classy.
That list is for writing new spells into the book which is the same an inscribing. Now where is the purchase price located?All this time I've differentiated between inscription cost and purchase price, and pointed out that the inscription cost is the cost to write into the book, and that I've quoted, several times now, statements explicitly saying that the price to copy is half that of the listed inscription cost.
I can only imagine that you are either unable to read, or are deliberately ignoring everything that I've been saying and repeating.
You actually never pointed out the purchase price. You gave a veiled reference to where it was. Only when it was actually posted did I know where it was.
Saying what it is and providing proof is not the same thing. If you posted what Steve posted then I missed it.
You actually never pointed out the purchase price. You gave a veiled reference to where it was. Only when it was actually posted did I know where it was.
Saying what it is and providing proof is not the same thing. If you posted what Steve posted then I missed it.I posted a link to the relevant section in my very first post in this thread, and later I even quoted the specific lines that discussed it. Neither of those is "a veiled reference to where it was". They were explicit references to it, even in the post immediately preceding Steve's. The only reason you can think it was "a veiled reference" is if you simply weren't reading.
You obviously must have missed it, because it was all over the place.
You put it in a bad spot. :)
You put it in a bad spot. :)No, I didn't. You can't blame me for your inability to read. You were wrong; just admit it.
Yeah I missed it, but most references are done like this
PRD:reference cited orreference sited
I read your quote as your words not from the book, which is when Steve put it on the boards inside of a quote I noticed it. After our back and forth issue I did a "control + F" to use steve's quote and it took me to yours.
PS:Yes I was wrong, and you had it up well before Steve did.
I'll keep your suggestions in mind, because I see what you're saying, but it's noticeable when a bit of text is a link (though perhaps they should make it more obvious) so figured it was self-explanatory.I also think it's better to link because I see a LOT of people using impartial quotes to suit their argument, and selectively ignoring parts that do not suit their argument.
Why would I quote my own words when mentioning that it's a quote from the text that I linked?
Additionally, you CLAIMED earlier in the thread to have followed the link, but it seems obvious that you clearly did not read it. There's quite some inconsistency there.
Isn't it a moot point? He admitted to being wrong on the subject, and having missed something earlier in the thread. Delving deeper into it is both pointless and irrelevant to the question of the thread.
You put it in a bad spot. :)No, I didn't. You can't blame me for your inability to read. You were wrong; just admit it.Yeah I missed it, but most references are done like this
PRD:reference cited or
reference sitedI read your quote as your words not from the book, which is when Steve put it on the boards inside of a quote I noticed it. After our back and forth issue I did a "control + F" to use steve's quote and it took me to yours.
PS:Yes I was wrong, and you had it up well before Steve did.
I'll keep your suggestions in mind, because I see what you're saying, but it's noticeable when a bit of text is a link (though perhaps they should make it more obvious) so figured it was self-explanatory.
I also think it's better to link because I see a LOT of people using impartial quotes to suit their argument, and selectively ignoring parts that do not suit their argument.
Why would I quote my own words when mentioning that it's a quote from the text that I linked?
Additionally, you CLAIMED earlier in the thread to have followed the link, but it seems obvious that you clearly did not read it. There's quite some inconsistency there.
I clicked on it, but I was looking for purchase chart as opposed to an inscription chart. I did not see the chart so I came back here.
Of course I now know that the words explained the intent so there was no purchase chart. At that point I was thinking you were making stuff up.
...
It was pretty veiled and convoluted. Didn't you say that the scroll's price is the same as the purchase price?
That seems like it could be pretty high seeing as how there are a lot of rare component based spells. Maybe you should check the Magic - Arcane Spells - Writing a New Spell in a Spellbook.
It has the prices for the inscriptions.
...It was pretty veiled and convoluted. Didn't you say that the scroll's price is the same as the purchase price?
That seems like it could be pretty high seeing as how there are a lot of rare component based spells. Maybe you should check the Magic - Arcane Spells - Writing a New Spell in a Spellbook.
It has the prices for the inscriptions.
I had forgotten about that. Actually I could not remember who made the statement. Good catch if Nigrescence made it.
Thank goodness for Quantum Steve! We'd still be lost without his guidance.
Could the purchase price not also refer to the Spellcasting and Services section of the equipment chapter?
i.e. Caster level x Spell level x 10gp
Could the purchase price not also refer to the Spellcasting and Services section of the equipment chapter?
i.e. Caster level x Spell level x 10gp
It could, but that would make them a lot more expensive. Since the typical spellbook has 100 pages I think the current suggested method is better so players don't get too rich off of spellbooks, and wizards don't get charged too much to get new spells.
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That doesn't simplify anything at all...Your proposition is internally inconsistent...
I don't even want to get into your horrendously poor butchered attempt at an analogy, because I sincerely doubt that you'll even listen (and yes, when you buy a game you DO own that copy as well as owning the right to play it - just as when you buy a textbook you DO own that copy of...
Really? No, actually, when you buy a game these days, you are purchasing a license to use the program, not the rights to the program itself. You don't own the program, you don't own the knowledge in the textbook. Your attempt to render it down to physical components of paper or disk are not relevant. Check any game EULA these days.
BTW, comments along the lines of horrendously butchered are unnecessarily antagonistic and inflammatory. Also, comments you made in earlier posts to other people also seem unnecessarily antagonistic and inflammatory. Please cease the rude comments.
Additionally, I think you missed the point I was making. A DM can make a shoulder call for the spellbook's value without spending hours trying to determine every little nuance and get back to the game.
Since there isn't an explicit answer here, and many opinions as to how the cost is valued, the only real solution to this question at the moment is for the dm to make a value judgement, determine whether he wants the book more or less expensive, and then use the appropriate method to arrive at the price.
My proposition is plenty consistent within the range of the problem, and provides a reasonable solution. Now, if we get a faq reply/errata, we can offer up that answer instead.
Until we have errata, the dm is looking at determining whether the total cost includes the blank spellbook, the cost of scrolls for each spell, the cost of hiring a spellcaster to cast the spell, the cost of borrowing a spellcaster's book who has the spell, the cost of inscribing, whether it's possible to purchase a spell in the first place, the cost of expensive material components that may have been consumed...
I haven't seen any evidence that suggests one answer over another one, just opinions on the matter. Without supporting evidence that implies it's the correct way to value...
It would cost 157,215gp to scribe all the core book's wizard spells into several spellbooks. The 15 spellbooks you would need would cost 270gp in their own right, putting the total cost up to 157,485gp for ALL core wizard spells.
You people are over complicating it.
EDIT: However if you were to take Craft Wondrous Item and make yourself a pair of blessed books, the cost goes down to 64,905gp (52,405gp viewing cost + 12,500gp for creating two blessed books).
I figured it all out the moment I realized the pricing rules were different in Pathfinder (years ago).
You people are over complicating it.
What are you talking about? We were not trying to find the price for every spell in the book combined, and the question has already been answered.
Vanulf is just asking for more clarification.
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I'm still going with it making more sense that the "purchase" cost is the cost to purchase a scroll.
My logic is this: How much does it cost a wizard who has no access to another wizard to add a spell to a spellbook? First he has to buy the scroll of the spell he wants, and then he has to scribe the scroll into his book. To create an entire spellbook, he has to buy every scroll in the spellbook and then pay to inscribe each of those spells.
Basic D&D economy says that things sell for half as much as they cost to buy (doesn't that statement just make perfect sense? ;) ), so the sell value of the new spellbook would be half of (the cost to purchase a scroll of every spell in the book + the cost to inscribe every spell in the book).
Yes this means that if a spell has an expensive material component, that adds to the value of the spellbook, but this makes sense; again, to create a spellbook without relying on an existing spellbook, you have to buy a scroll with which to inscribe, and scrolls cost extra for their expensive material components.
Doing it this way is more expensive than borrowing the spells from another wizard; it makes sense to me that the value of a spellbook would be determined by the more costly way to create the spellbook, especially when it is also arguably the easier way (in my mind, finding a town that sells 5th level scrolls will always be easier than finding a 9th level wizard who has all the spells you happen to need).