|
Depends, are they jumping in with a group who has already played the first part? If none of them have played Part I, just say the society has gotten information that Skagni has been taken prisoner and sent to Whitethrone.
If players in the group have played Part I, there is box text on pg. 4 of the document to help resolve the issue for the newcomers. They still can play Part I at a later point in time. Tell them that whenever they do play it, they can think of the scenario as a flashback to their early escapades. Or they are on a fact-finding mission that will be given to other Pathfinders in the future.
Just make sure you know that the multi-part arcs are supposed to be played in a certain order. For example, there is one 4-part arc where you can play parts one, two, and three in any order, but they all have to be played before you can play part four. They generally also have to be played through with the same character, though this may have changed with the new replay rules. The Shards of Ice arc is one that is meant to be played in order, as stated on the product page:
All three scenarios are intended to be played in order
So should they be played in order? Yes. Do they absolutely have to be played in order? No. The former head of the PFS, Josh, wanted people to try their best to play arcs in the correct order, but never said it must be done that way. And as far as I know, the new heads of the PFS, Mark and Hyrum, have not changed that.
|
So should they be played in order? Yes. Do they absolutely have to be played in order? No. The former head of the PFS, Josh, wanted people to try their best to play arcs in the correct order, but never said it must be done that way. And as far as I know, the new heads of the PFS, Mark and Hyrum, have not changed that.
Except in "The Devil You Know" series which stated with absolutely zero issues of interpretation that you were not to play 3 without playing 1 and 2 and you could not play 4 without playing 3.
Yeah, that is the one I could not remember the name of. I knew there was one arc that had a more unusual and strict play order than all the rest.
|
Except in "The Devil You Know" series which stated with absolutely zero issues of interpretation that you were not to play 3 without playing 1 and 2 and you could not play 4 without playing 3.
So, how does this get handled?
I played parts 1 & 2 with PC X. PC X leveled out of range for parts 3 & 4 some time back (Currently level 9, 1 XP from 10, having trouble getting together a group to play HoM3 before he levels out of THAT series, too.)
So, Part 3 is available this week in my area. Can I not play it with a different PC, do I need to GM Parts 1 & 2 to get a PC in the apptropriate level range credit for those two scenarios, or what?
I know there was an old thread from back when Josh was in charge where he answered a similar question. I think I posted in that thread too, so I will check through my posts and edit it to this if I can find it.
Edit: Well, I was remembering wrong. The thread I had posted in never got a reply from Josh, so we will have to wait for a ruling from Mark or Hyrum on this.
|
You can play it with a different PC.
The order concern is more about not playing the last parts ahead of the first parts with the same character.
Really, that could apply to most of the multi-part or sequel adventures (ex. playing part 1 of Before the Dawn after part 2 wouldn't make a lot of sense, at least with the same character).
|
Continuity wise, your older character saw and dealt with the issues in #1 & #2. Then moved on. Enters Character #2, and he picks up where Character #1 left off, the reason it works, is because you the player can't play scenario #1 & #2 again, and you know the story up till then, or you should.
Scenario #1 and #2 really are interchangeable, but stuff happens in the #3, and then #4 that would make things in the first two make absolutely no sense if you played them first. Thus the hard rule on play order.
Now what I'd do is see if any of my players, and how many had played the older parts, if none, or all but one hadn't. I'd pull out the older scenario and run it. Hopefully my coordinator has a printer and can print me out some replacement chronicle sheets because I keep only 7 in my binders.
|
|
As a DM I am running the Shards of Ice Part 2 scenario this weekend and for any new player I intend to include them some how and still hopefully keep it so that they can play part one if want to as well. At least that is my intention.
I do plan on recapping it for them so that it does make some sense for them too :)
Thanks!
Except in "The Devil You Know" series which stated with absolutely zero issues of interpretation that you were not to play 3 without playing 1 and 2 and you could not play 4 without playing 3.So, how does this get handled?
In my experience? You just play them in whatever order anyways, and you wait at home, unable to sleep out of sheer terror, waiting for the Pathfinder Society Enforcement Squad to break down your door.
Seriously, I never understood the "you MUST play these in order" warning on those modules.
|
|
Except in "The Devil You Know" series which stated with absolutely zero issues of interpretation that you were not to play 3 without playing 1 and 2 and you could not play 4 without playing 3.So, how does this get handled?In my experience? You just play them in whatever order anyways, and you wait at home, unable to sleep out of sheer terror, waiting for the Pathfinder Society Enforcement Squad to break down your door.
Seriously, I never understood the "you MUST play these in order" warning on those modules.
It's like saying The Return of the King happened before The Fellowship of the Ring. In any other order other than what is suggested just leaves you going WTF.
Unless all you do is show up and roll dice and that is it. Which leaves me going WTF, why not just go play Sorry, and screw the whole RPG thing.
|
|
It's like saying The Return of the King happened before The Fellowship of the Ring. In any other order other than what is suggested just leaves you going WTF.
Unless all you do is show up and roll dice and that is it. Which leaves me going WTF, why not just go play Sorry, and screw the whole RPG thing.
Let's not be too alarmist. Sometimes all you can do is show up and roll dice. I hardly believe PFS needs to be taken so seriously that a scenario can't be played out of order.
|
|
Let's not be too alarmist. Sometimes all you can do is show up and roll dice. I hardly believe PFS needs to be taken so seriously that a scenario can't be played out of order.It's like saying The Return of the King happened before The Fellowship of the Ring. In any other order other than what is suggested just leaves you going WTF.
Unless all you do is show up and roll dice and that is it. Which leaves me going WTF, why not just go play Sorry, and screw the whole RPG thing.
I disagree. If you show up at my table and you have not played the prerequisite adventure, I'm going to exercise my right to turn you away. I don't want people who are just rolling dice at my table, and there is no more obvious sign of it then someone signing up for something they haven't played the pre-reqs for. Some scenarios allow for it, and I'm willing to work in those perameters, but otherwise I'm not ruining my fun and the potential fun of others so someone can "Just roll dice". I spend too much time preparing these adventures to let someone who doesn't care do that. If I have any one pet peeve it's lazy apathetic players.
|
I disagree. If you show up at my table and you have not played the prerequisite adventure, I'm going to exercise my right to turn you away. I don't want people who are just rolling dice at my table, and there is no more obvious sign of it then someone signing up for something they haven't played the pre-reqs for. Some scenarios allow for it, and I'm willing to work in those perameters, but otherwise I'm not ruining my fun and the potential fun of others so someone can "Just roll dice". I spend too much time preparing these adventures to let someone who doesn't care do that. If I have any one pet peeve it's lazy apathetic players.Let's not be too alarmist. Sometimes all you can do is show up and roll dice. I hardly believe PFS needs to be taken so seriously that a scenario can't be played out of order.It's like saying The Return of the King happened before The Fellowship of the Ring. In any other order other than what is suggested just leaves you going WTF.
Unless all you do is show up and roll dice and that is it. Which leaves me going WTF, why not just go play Sorry, and screw the whole RPG thing.
You're making a pretty big jump on that conclusion. Some people just play what their schedules/opportunities allow. The biggest number of people who wind up doing this are GMs in my experience. Do you deny them at the table for having already reading the mod? It's basically the same thing.
Some people are there to just roll dice. Even then, they have a right to play. You don't get to tell them that their play style is wrong without becoming the bad guy.
Seriously, I never understood the "you MUST play these in order" warning on those modules.** spoiler omitted **
It's like saying The Return of the King happened before The Fellowship of the Ring. In any other order other than what is suggested just leaves you going WTF.
Really? You're telling me you've never watched a movie series out of order in your whole life? When I was a kid, I saw The Empire Strikes Back before I ever saw Star Wars, and I thought it was a blast. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Again, I understand "we highly recommend you play these in order", but "you MUST play these in order" seems overly draconian.
Unless all you do is show up and roll dice and that is it. Which leaves me going WTF, why not just go play Sorry, and screw the whole RPG thing.
The particular case I'm thinking of is that Player X went out to play a Pathfinder Society game, and when he got to the venue, only The Devil You Know #4 was being offered. Player X had only played #1 and #2, so he had a choice between playing #4 or going home disappointed and possibly never finding out how the series ends.
YMMV, of course.
|
|
You're making a pretty big jump on that conclusion. Some people just play what their schedules/opportunities allow. The biggest number of people who wind up doing this are GMs in my experience. Do you deny them at the table for having already reading the mod? It's basically the same thing.Some people are there to just roll dice. Even then, they have a right to play. You don't get to tell them that their play style is wrong without becoming the bad guy.
Ok, so schedules and opportunities. At a small local convention there are 4 other different scenarios being run at the same time as my part 3 scenario next week. A GM could very easily choose any of those 4 scenarios instead of mine, especially since it's first come first serve. So, once again someone makes a choice to not follow the rules.
As far as denying a GM at my table for reading the scenario. If I have knowledge of such, I most certainly would unless they're playing a pre-gen and are the neccesary player to make a legal table. It's right in the rules. Chances of me actually knowing, slim to none.
The rules are there for a reason. I personally have no problem with the rules, and if someone else thinks there is a problem they should let Mark and Hyrum know, and lobby accordingly.
What I personally don't understand, is if all you want to do is roll dice, why are you taking the time to go to a con, or local event, or whatever. Go to a casino where all you do is roll dice.
|
|
Ok, so schedules and opportunities. At a small local convention there are 4 other different scenarios being run at the same time as my part 3 scenario next week. A GM could very easily choose any of those 4 scenarios instead of mine, especially since it's first come first serve. So, once again someone makes a choice to not follow the rules.
As far as denying a GM at my table for reading the scenario. If I have knowledge of such, I most certainly would unless they're playing a pre-gen and are the neccesary player to make a legal table. It's right in the rules. Chances of me actually knowing, slim to none.
The rules are there for a reason. I personally have no problem with the rules, and if someone else thinks there is a problem they should let Mark and Hyrum know, and lobby accordingly.
What I personally don't understand, is if all you want to do is roll dice, why are you taking the time to go to a con, or local event, or whatever. Go to a casino where all you do is roll dice.
Um, what? You're actually going to deny a GM a chance to play with a character he made and has not applied that scenario credit to that character if you have prior knowledge he's ran the scenario? Can you please point that one out in the rules for me, because I'm 100% certain you're wrong. What happened to 1 and 1?
I'm pretty sure every event someone plays an RPG is just showing up to roll dice.
|
|
Um, what? You're actually going to deny a GM a chance to play with a character he made and has not applied that scenario credit to that character if you have prior knowledge he's ran the scenario? Can you please point that one out in the rules for me, because I'm 100% certain you're wrong. What happened to 1 and 1?I'm pretty sure every event someone plays an RPG is just showing up to roll dice.
Ok, I stand corrected on the rules for a GM. I must be remembering an older edition because this one states something different than the July 2010 edition that I remember. So, no I would not turn a GM away, unless he had not read, or played any of the prior adventures to Part 3 and 4.
Do Not Read the Scenario
Players who read a scenario prior to playing it are considered to be cheating, as it may give them an unfair advantage over other players when accomplishing their goals. Players may read a scenario after they have played it, but may not do so to second guess a GM’s decisions or play styles.
• You receive GM or player credit regardless of the
order you play/GM the scenario. You may not earn more
than 1 player credit and 1 GM credit regardless of how
many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to
use PPP to seat legal tables, but if you already have earned
your credits you do not earn any additional ones.
• If you spoil the plot for the table, the GM has
the right to ask you to leave the table and is under no
obligation to award you a chronicle sheet. Be very careful
about character knowledge versus player knowledge.
If you’re concerned about possibly spoiling something
during the course of play, take the GM aside and ask how
she would like it handled. Remember: the goal of replay
is to make sure fun gaming happens, not to remove the
fun from gaming.
|
|
You're making a pretty big jump on that conclusion. Some people just play what their schedules/opportunities allow. The biggest number of people who wind up doing this are GMs in my experience. Do you deny them at the table for having already reading the mod? It's basically the same thing.Some people are there to just roll dice. Even then, they have a right to play. You don't get to tell them that their play style is wrong without becoming the bad guy.
Ok, so schedules and opportunities. At a small local convention there are 4 other different scenarios being run at the same time as my part 3 scenario next week. A GM could very easily choose any of those 4 scenarios instead of mine, especially since it's first come first serve. So, once again someone makes a choice to not follow the rules.
As far as denying a GM at my table for reading the scenario. If I have knowledge of such, I most certainly would unless they're playing a pre-gen and are the neccesary player to make a legal table. It's right in the rules. Chances of me actually knowing, slim to none.
The rules are there for a reason. I personally have no problem with the rules, and if someone else thinks there is a problem they should let Mark and Hyrum know, and lobby accordingly.
What I personally don't understand, is if all you want to do is roll dice, why are you taking the time to go to a con, or local event, or whatever. Go to a casino where all you do is roll dice.
At a small con I would 'encourage' them to play a different mod, not force. There's only been 1 mod series I'm aware of where it said not to play a part without playing the previous sections. In Shades of Ice, it has specific instructions for those who did not play the previous. You apparently would choose to ignore them.
And that limit on replay was removed with the newest set of rules.
I might not understand why people who are only there for the dice-rolling aspect are playing (I sure don't find that even near the best aspect of RPGs), but they have as much right as anyone to be there. Especially at a con where they laid out the same cash as everyone else. Not everyone plays for the same reason, as long as noone is disturbing the table, the reason doesn't matter.
|
|
The Devil We Know series says players who have not played #1 & #2 may not play #3, and #4 states you can't play unless you've played 1-3. #2 has instructions which it can be played before #1. I've not touched any other series yet. So, being as such I would follow #2's alternate progression rules, and be strict with #3 and #4. Especially since I'm running all 4 in order this con.
|
Before this thrashing of ThornDJL7 gets outta hand, let's all relax.
We all know the "ideal" situation is to have fully engaged players at the table, willing and able to role-play. However, sometimes, we need to accommodate different styles of players.
Even in the case of DWK part 3/4, I could see allowing someone to play them without having played parts 1/2. Again, not the best solution, but organizers have to do what is best for the players, especially at a convention where you likely don't know most of the people attending.
In nearly two years of GM/coordinating I have only had one instance of turning players away. And that because we were already at seven players at both tables and they arrived 45 minutes late.
Remember the name of the game is inclusion...followed by Explore, Report, Cooperate.
|
|
The Devil We Know series says players who have not played #1 & #2 may not play #3, and #4 states you can't play unless you've played 1-3. #2 has instructions which it can be played before #1. I've not touched any other series yet. So, being as such I would follow #2's alternate progression rules, and be strict with #3 and #4. Especially since I'm running all 4 in order this con.
Agreed.
It is ideal to play any series straight. However, it is not always possible. This one has specific rules on play order, which I believe is bad design. I hope Mark and Hyrum look into this as a possible change in the future, perhaps to not being able to play previous mods in the series with the same character. It currently only serves to put more restrictions on the prcious few low level mods we have.
|
|
Before this thrashing of ThornDJL7 gets outta hand, let's all relax.
We all know the "ideal" situation is to have fully engaged players at the table, willing and able to role-play. However, sometimes, we need to accommodate different styles of players.
Even in the case of DWK part 3/4, I could see allowing someone to play them without having played parts 1/2. Again, not the best solution, but organizers have to do what is best for the players, especially at a convention where you likely don't know most of the people attending.
In nearly two years of GM/coordinating I have only had one instance of turning players away. And that because we were already at seven players at both tables and they arrived 45 minutes late.
Remember the name of the game is inclusion...followed by Explore, Report, Cooperate.
I wouldn't say we were thrashing Thorn.... that would be painful :P
Spirited discussion. :P
|
|
@TK
You're right. I have forgotten the point of PFS in light of the situation presented. In the scenario, we discuss if someone shows up having not previously played #1 & #2. I would work with either the coordinator to place them at a more suitable table for their player. I would explain that it would ruin the previous adventures for them. The point where I probably wouldn't care at all is where they're 1-2 adventures from hitting lvl 8. So, getting all 4 in isn't possible. Lastly, if the last possible option is for them to play out of order or not play at all. I'd probably deal with it, as long as the player wasn't concerned with their own storyline continuity. It'd bug me I'll admit.
@Cblome
I like that option from a Lawful point of view, but once again in light of the goal of PFS. I'd reccomend players not play them.
What about the 12th level arc? Can you play them out of order?
|
|
@TK
You're right. I have forgotten the point of PFS in light of the situation presented. In the scenario, we discuss if someone shows up having not previously played #1 & #2. I would work with either the coordinator to place them at a more suitable table for their player. I would explain that it would ruin the previous adventures for them. The point where I probably wouldn't care at all is where they're 1-2 adventures from hitting lvl 8. So, getting all 4 in isn't possible. Lastly, if the last possible option is for them to play out of order or not play at all. I'd probably deal with it, as long as the player wasn't concerned with their own storyline continuity. It'd bug me I'll admit.@Cblome
I like that option from a Lawful point of view, but once again in light of the goal of PFS. I'd reccomend players not play them.What about the 12th level arc? Can you play them out of order?
Agreed again Thorn :)
No idea on the 12th level arc, havent't looked at them, tho I will most likely wind up eating them.
|
|
What about the 12th level arc? Can you play them out of order?
You cannot play them out of order. They are meant as a treat for everyone who has spent hundreds of hours playing one character to enjoy. They also have a mechanic built in that depends on keeping track of things that happen in the scenarios.
|
|
The Devil We Know series says players who have not played #1 & #2 may not play #3, and #4 states you can't play unless you've played 1-3.
Thorn, Part 4 actually says that it is not required to have played the previous 3 parts, but it will make more sense if you have. IIRC, Echoes of the Everwar is actually a bit more strongly worded.
I'm in the middle of the extremes on this. If someone showed up at my table to play an earlier part when they had played a later, I would ask if they had another character who was eligible.
The 'storyline' justification for this: their is no overall timeline to Pathfinder Society, only to individual characters. So it doesn't make sense for character A to do an intro after a conclusion. However, there is nothing to say that someone's characters did not do a series in order, tho the player did not.
|
Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
|
DWK is a big reason, in my opinion, why PFS has gone for smaller story arcs since Season 1. We heard many complaints about leveling out of the tier range of the story, especially when you consider the release dates for those when they were new.
To keep this from being an issue, Season 2 had smaller story arcs (2 or 3-parters), released fairly close together (a much better plan), and inter-mixed with "spiritual sequels" (such as Voice in the Void and Among the Dead). This has been received more favorably locally. YMMV.