AoO happens Before, Doing, After a attack?


Rules Questions


here a small story with 2 exps

we get jumps by what looks like some gargoyles they was flying on top of us the hole fight. then we roll for Init are elf Ranger was top of the round. he go but provoke he using a bow "the GM was whats your Flat-footed AC"
1) yes the gargoyles jumped use but dont you need to Action to provoke?
ok later in the round the mage says "constructs use adamantine weapons" next was the dwarf with adamantine full plate he go "can i hit them with my adamantine gauntlets" gm say "no" dwarf "ok then i will ready to hit him when he comes down" gm "ok" so a few mins later the gargoyles attank
2) dose a ready gos before AoO becouse he dosent have inv unarmed strike so he provoke?

this is one of my gray areas i need help with!

i can see the gm geting AoO if you acted yet so dose AoO happens Before, Doing, After a attack?

Liberty's Edge

In all circumstances that I know of, the AoO starts and finishes before the action that triggered it resolves.

However, you have still reached your turn in case 1 if you began to take an action and in that case the archer shouldn't have been flat-footed unless the Gargoyle taking the AoO was somehow invisible to the archer.

Case 2 is pretty simple: AoO goes first, then (assuming the character can still perform the action) the action finishes.

Of course, this goes both directions so be sure to remind your DM that your AoO goes first when the opponent provokes ;)


1. Not flat footed because he is in the middle of his action.
2. AoO happens right before the action that provokes. This is why you can't be tripped while getting up from prone.
3. I'm not actually sure what all you are asking beyond this because of the writing style you are using. I do not intend to insult (and I understand English might not be your primary language) but I simply am not sure what you are trying to tell us and ask of us.

Dark Archive

Lets start with the book definition of Flat footed:

Quote:
Flat-Footed: A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

1) Have the gargoyles acted during this combat? If the answer is no, then they do not get an AoO (unless they have combat reflexes). If they truly jumped you, then it would be a surprise round, and the ranger would not have been able to shoot yet, as the gargoyles would have the first, surprise, round all to themselves.

1 a) If it did go through the way that you posted, then the ranger is already acting this turn, and thus should not be flat footed.

2) The AoO would go before the dwarf punches the target. But at the same time, unless the AoO kills, paralyses, or otherwise stops the dwarf, the punch still goes through.


Happler wrote:

Lets start with the book definition of Flat footed:

Flat-Footed: A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

true this part i known

Lets start with the book definition of Attacks of Opportunity:

Quote:

Attacks of Opportunity

Provoking an Attack of Opportunity: Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing certain actions within a threatened square.
Moving: Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.
Performing a Distracting Act: Some actions, when performed in a threatened square, provoke attacks of opportunity as you divert your attention from the battle. Table 8–2 notes many of the actions that provoke attacks of opportunity.
Remember that even actions that normally provoke attacks of opportunity may have exceptions to this rule.

do you have to take a action to provoke?

Happler wrote:
1) Have the gargoyles acted during this combat? If the answer is no, then they do not get an AoO (unless they have combat reflexes). If they truly jumped you, then it would be a surprise round, and the ranger would not have been able to shoot yet, as the gargoyles would have the first, surprise, round all to themselves.

no the gargoyles get the surprise round

Happler wrote:
1 a) If it did go through the way that you posted, then the ranger is already acting this turn, and thus should not be flat footed.

so he dose get he full AC then

Happler wrote:
2) The AoO would go before the dwarf punches the target. But at the same time, unless the AoO kills, paralyses, or otherwise stops the dwarf, the punch still goes through.

thats my next Q&A i was going to ask

lest use 1) ranger dose a fullround action with a bow but he provoke but the AoO kills him so do he get his fullround action?

Dark Archive

chaoskin wrote:

thats my next Q&A i was going to ask

lest use 1) ranger dose a fullround action with a bow but he provoke but the AoO kills him so do he get his fullround action?

lets start with this one.

If the gargoyle kills the ranger on the AoO (that must have been a good single attack!Ouch!), then the ranger does not even get one shot off. He was basically drawing the arrow and aiming when he was hit.

chaoskin wrote:
do you have to take a action to provoke?

Yes. You have to do something that would provoke an AoO. Keeps people from just getting free hits for no reason outside of standard or full round action.

In the rangers case, it was drawing the bow to hit (and thus sighting down the arrow to aim, and not paying as much attention to the rest of the combat).

hopefully that helps some.


Happler wrote:

lets start with this one.

If the gargoyle kills the ranger on the AoO (that must have been a good single attack!Ouch!), then the ranger does not even get one shot off. He was basically drawing the arrow and aiming when he was hit.

ok no fullround action

Happler wrote:
In the rangers case, it was drawing the bow to hit (and thus sighting down the arrow to aim, and not paying as much attention to the rest of the combat).

ok lest us the some ranger but he only dose a standard action and the AoO kills him dose he keep it?

dose paralyses, or killing (thro AoO) happen before the standard action?

Happler wrote:
hopefully that helps some.

yes this helps a lot


chaoskin wrote:

ok lest us the some ranger but he only dose a standard action and the AoO kills him dose he keep it?

dose paralyses, or killing (thro AoO) happen before the standard action?

The ranger provokes because he is using a Ranged Attack (with his bow) while being threatened by the Gargoyle. This gives the gargoyle one AoO. It does not matter if it is a Standard or Full Round Attack.

The AoO always comes first, so if the ranger dies because of the attack then he is dead. He doesn't get his action(s), he is dead.

If he got paralyzed then he is still alive, but still can not take his actions because he is paralyzed and can't move.

Note: There are feats/races that can let you continue on with your turn even if you would normally have been knocked unconcious from having 0 HP.

Liberty's Edge

A couple of points to remember:

Assuming this is how the combat has gone so far:

Surprise round:
Gargoyles fly in to melee range of various PCs.
NOTE: During a surprise round, unless certain limited feats are taken, the surprisers get one single action.

Round 1:
Ranger wins initiative, attempts to attack with his bow, gets killed by a single AoO attack.

Breakdown:
Ranger did NOT take his free 5 foot step out of melee range, either because of terrain issues (difficult terrain, for example) or placement issues (no space to step into that was not threatened)
Ranger starts his initial attack, provoking from any adjacent gargoyles. Each adjacent gargoyle gets a SINGLE aoO, whether the Ranger did a single standard action attack or a multiple attack full action attack, each action that provokes an AoO can only provoke a SINGLE AoO from each opponent in response.
Gargoyle attacks against Ranger's regular AC, as he is in the process of acting, and therefore has his full Dex bonus to AC.
Gargoyle hits, doing enough damage to kill the Ranger.
Ranger's attack fizzles, as he is dead.

Things of note:
Each action that provokes, no matter whether it is a swift action, immediate action, free action, move action, stanmdard action, or full-round action, can only provoke from any single opponent once.
If said opponent has Combat Reflexes, they can get another AoO against teh same or dfifferent target, on a different action that provokes. Without COmbat Reflexes, the opponent can only take ONE AoO between his rounds in the turn.

Depending on your levels, there are a few things that the Ranger can consider for the future to prevent setting off AoOs from using his bow in melee:
Armor Spikes - not his best attack, but won't provoke. Also allows him to provide flanking and take AoOs of his own, unlike the bow.
5 foot step - move out of the threatened area.
OPoint-Blank Master (APG) - feat available to 6th level Rangers that allows them to use a specific type of ranged weapon while threatened without provoking AoOs.

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