OK, so I'm a sorcerer, and one of my ancestors was a gold dragon. I have realized that this makes me special, even among sorcerers; I can grow claws, for one thing. But I do wonder what's in store for me as I get more in touch with my Inner Dragon...
Q1: If I cast Enlarge Person on myself, will that increase the damage my claws deal?
My first answer was 'yes', but then I read the Core text on polymorph spells, and it says (p. 212): "You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as a sorcerer that can grow claws) still function".
Now that is specifically about spells from the polymorph subschool, and EP isn't one of them; but it does carry the implication that my claws are a manifestation of my Inner Dragon and have nothing to do with my outward, physical form -- or the size of it.
Q2: I see myself flying around a lot, seeing how I get Fly as a bloodline spell at 7th level, Form of the Dragon I at 13th level and finally my very own wings at 15th level. Flyby Attack seems like a must-have feat. But when can I take it?
At 7th level, when I get the Fly spell (and thereby the ability to take ranks in the Fly skill)?
At 13th level, with Form of the Dragon I?
Or must I wait until 15th level, when I get the ability to grow wings?
"Fly speed" is the prerequisite for Flyby Attack, and according to the text on the Wings power, it'll be "giving you a fly speed of 60 feet", so I can definitely pick it up then.
But can I pick it up earlier? The Fly spell says "[t]he subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet" -- is this (granting the ability to fly at a speed of 60') different from granting a fly speed of 60'?
Which leads me to the FotD spell, which says that "[y]ou gain [...] fly 60 feet (poor)". Now this definitely grants a fly speed, but still only temporarily (although it's very much part of me, stemming from the power of my Inner Dragon as it is, and multiple uses per day).
Indulging in some meta-thinking, apart from the Coolness points, at 15th level the Wings bloodline power seem rather underpowered. OTOH, Flyby Attack seems almost too good to be true, seeing how it would let me swoop down on a group of foes, cast a short-range area-effect spell (e.g. Fear, 9th level bloodline spell), and be out of melee reach before they can react. So I feel/fear that Wings were put where they are because they, and nothing else, will qualify me for Flyby Attack.
Q3: I see nothing in the RAW preventing me from using (bloodline spell) FotD to become a white dragon, and then using my Claws power to grow claws that deal fire damage.
In fact, the RAW seems to explicitly allow it, as per qoute in Q1.
I feel, however, that it goes against the flavor/rationale of the bloodline abilities. I wouldn't have any trouble with it if I used a non-bloodline spell (e.g., Greater Polymorph) to perform the feat.
Thoughts?
Q1: Yes, it would increase your claw damage.
Q2: If your GM allows you to take feats from the Bestiary (I would, but some won't), then you could take Flyby Attack at the same level you gain access to the fly spell.
Q3: I agree with you. It's allowed, but flavorwise you should use the bloodline spells to further your bloodline.
I'm too lazy to quote the book, but I remember reading that spells and spell-like abilities do not count for prerequisites for feats.
Q1: Yes, it would increase your claw damage.
But if I use FotD II to become a Large dragon, which gives me "two claws (1d8)", and I then use my Claws power? My "personal" claws come out at (1d6 + 1d6 fire), not at (1d8 + 1d6 fire), right?
Q2: If your GM allows you to take feats from the Bestiary (I would, but some won't)
When I GM (I'm not in this case) I'm often sorely tempted to disallow feats from secondary material... I usually don't see it adding much beyond extra complexity, of which the game already has plenty, and run significant risk of being unbalanced. However I always insist on "equal opportunity": If the characters have something, it's available to their adversaries, if they qualify for it... and vice versa. And the Bestiary is a primary, not a secondary source: I will be facing adversaries that have the feats detailed in it. So as a GM, I would definitely allow Bestiary feats to player characters that met the prerequisites, and would not hesitate to opine that any GM that disallowed it made the wrong decision. The reason the Bestiary feats are not in the Core book, I would guess is that no player characters qualify for them at low level in a standard setting, and even high-level characters only rarely qualify.
you could take Flyby Attack at the same level you gain access to the fly spell.
Hmmn, yes I read an old thread on this forum that sorta concluded that, but I remain unconvinced. If I were the GM and had to rule on this now, I would say that Wings are necessary to qualify. Please provide a convincing argument why this is not so 8-)
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Q1: Your claws would go up a damage die. They are a melee weapon, albeit a natural one, and Enlarge Person isn't a Polymorph effect, so Polymorph rules wouldn't strictly apply. EP Quote: "Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see page 145)."
Q2: I'm with you on the Flyby Attack issue. I'd rule (and I suspect most GMs would also rule), that a temporary fly speed is not enough to qualify for Flyby attack. You'd need something constant, such as the Draconic Wings class feature. Same would apply to opponents. If I saw Paizo material that indicated otherwise, I'd rule otherwise. Even permitting that might be iffy, though, given that the Wings aren't a constant effect.
FWIW, were one to play a Strix (ISWG), you could take Flyby Attack at Level 1 because they have a Fly Speed, so if you have an in-born Fly Speed, you can take Flyby Attack (per my view/ruling). I'd tend to rule the Draconic Wings as close enough to an in-born Fly Speed.
Q3: RAW, you are entirely correct. There's nothing that would prevent you from using FotD II to turn into a White Dragon, then using your Claws power to manifest your own personal claws that deal fire damage. As a GM, I would probably rule that during the rounds you manifest your personal claws, those claws would replace those of the Dragon Form. I'd also likely rule that since you've scaled your body up to Large, your personal claws would scale up in damage in a similar fashion to Enlarge Person, the same as if you had played a Sorcerer of a Large race (1d6 base for Large Claws, boosted to 1d8 by the 7th level increase in damage). Thus, were I running the campaign in which you tried to pull this, when you cast FotD II on yourself to become a Large Dragon, any use of your personal claws would temporarily replace the claws of the Dragon and would deal 1d8 + 1d6 fire (Large Boosted Claw + Energy Type).
FWIW
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Q1: Yes, it would increase your claw damage.But if I use FotD II to become a Large dragon, which gives me "two claws (1d8)", and I then use my Claws power? My "personal" claws come out at (1d6 + 1d6 fire), not at (1d8 + 1d6 fire), right?
The claw damage scales as size changes. In the description of the ability, it lists as an example the fact that a small creature does less damage.
I'm pretty sure you need a natural fly speed to qualify. As a house rule, I'd be inclined to allow Overland Flight to qualify, but not Fly.
Keep in mind that Flyby Attack does not allow you to ignore the attack of opportunity like Spring Attack so a flyby claw attack isn't a good idea. It would allow you to get in a good position for a breath weapon attack, then pop back to cover.
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The Fly Skill notes that '... You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability)...'
Now while this isn't RAW applied to the Flyby Attack Feat, I'd suggest that the conditions which allow you to practice flying enough to gain ranks in the Skill are probably the same conditions which allow you to practice flying enough to gain a specific skilled application of the ability (i.e. the Flyby Attack Feat).
I'd suggest that the conditions which allow you to practice flying enough to gain ranks in the Skill are probably the same conditions which allow you to practice flying enough to gain a specific skilled application of the ability (i.e. the Flyby Attack Feat).
+1
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I'd suggest that the conditions which allow you to practice flying enough to gain ranks in the Skill are probably the same conditions which allow you to practice flying enough to gain a specific skilled application of the ability (i.e. the Flyby Attack Feat).+1
+1. Didn't realize that about the Fly skill, but it makes sense to apply that criterion to flight feats such as Flyby Attack or Hover. Revise previous opinion appropriately.
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as stated above, I think you only can use the DD ability Form of the Dragon to become your dragon blood type. If you select the spell as a spell known, you can assume any form per usual.
On the claw thing while shaped into a dragon, it is pretty much up to your DM how that would work. it calls out DD claws as usable, but doesn't now say how it effects if your form already has claws.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.