There are tons of third party products out there, with a wide variety of topics. Thing I look for in a third party product are:
1) Creativity: I don’t want another race of elves. There are tons of races out there already and honestly, there isn’t much need for too many more. When I do look at a new race, I look at its uniqueness. What does it add to my campaign? Is it too easy or difficult to add? Are the racial abilities something that are balanced and interesting? Do the racial abilities push it to a particular group of classes but don’t preclude it from being other classes? If create a new class, is it something that couldn’t be done with the current classes or by multi-classing?
2) Simplicity: It’s great to add something new to the game and even to add some new rules. How complex are the rules? Are the overly complicated? Are they overly simplistic? How easy is it to integrate into my game? If you create a spell point system, how does it work with metamagic feats? Is the new rule something I can easily adapt as new things are added to the game?
3) Integration: How easy is it to integrate this into my game? Do you have any tips for some of the more esoteric additions? How does it affect current products and potentially future products? What potential problems do you foresee? For example, if you create a spell point system, how does this affect creatures with spell casting abilities such as dragons and devils?
4) Compatibility: This is similar to integration but I’m more concerned with how it is compatible with your other third party products. If you are going to introduce a new race, is there a product that you have with feats that would be appropriate for that race? Do you have a product with some interesting magic items that the new race might prefer? Is there a locale that you had fleshed out already that this new race comes from? Did you take the new race from an adventure you wrote? Show me how your new product is compatible with your old and upcoming products. Make me want to buy more of your stuff.
5) Consistency: Is your product consistent with the rules system you are writing this for? If you are writing something for Pathfinder, do you follow the same general guidelines (written or unwritten)? In other words, do I have to spend a long time trying to figure out if this is going to be balanced with the core book for the system you wrote this for in the first place?
6) Usefulness: Just because you can come up with an interesting idea doesn’t mean it is something that I will want to buy because it isn’t going to be part of my campaign. Obviously this is going to be different for everyone but the more general the product, the more likely I am to buy it. I would rather pay for a book on gemstones than one on the mating habits of mephitis.
7) Literacy: Is the document something that has a good flow and is easy to read? Is it broken down into sections and subsections that make it easier for the reader to look up in a hurry? Is it hyperlinked and/or bookmarked? If it is a longer document, does it have a good table of contents and index? Is there a bibliography for me to look at in case I want more information? How is your spelling and grammar?
8) Layout: Is it pleasing to look at or are the fonts physically painful? While it’s fun to use some of the more unusual fonts for short titles, using them in the entire document turns me off quickly.
9) Artwork: If you are going to add artwork, does it look like something I could do after a few beers? I’m no looking for Todd Lockwood or Brom level of artwork but I also don’t want it to look like something a mom would put on the fridge because her kindergartner found the crayons. Is the artwork appropriate or does it detract from the product? Is it placed properly so that a drawing of armor is in the armor section? Is it labeled if that would make it easier? It’s cool to see a dozen new weapons but if I can’t tell which is which, why did you waste the space to put pictures of them there?
10) Cost: How much work did you put into this? How much overhead did you have? Did you have any special licensing requirements? What is your reputation? If you have never put out anything, you probably shouldn’t charge as much as someone who’s name as been out there for 10 years or more. Name recognition counts.
So those are some things I look for in a third party product. Here are some products I would be interested in buying:
1) Gemstones: I want to know more than just a list of names and values. I want to know sizes, locations where to find them (near certain deposits for example), and potential mystical properties.
2) Mounts: I want more than just a handful of mounts from the Core Rulebook. I want to know what advanced mounts would be like. I want different mounts and prices. I want the ride and handle animal skills to be useful with those mounts. I want to be able to look at another character’s mount and tell where it came from. I want there to be a difference between a horse from elven lands and human lands.
3) Henchmen: More than a simple list of artisans, I want them to work at different rates based on their skill and I want them to have different prices based on those skills. I want a bunch of stat blocks for potential adventurers. I want some interesting cohorts.
4) New materials: Equipment comes from all over the planes. I want to see interesting ideas for materials from those planes. Is a sword forged from the Plane of Fire different than one forged in Hell?
5) New magic systems: I really liked the concept with the Tome of Magic from WotC. I think it needed more work but the concept behind it was interesting. I also like the Magic of Incarnum ideas. There were issues with all of them, but the idea behind them was great. I would like to see more stuff like this.
6) New specialties for wizards: 2nd Edition brought in a lot of specialists in Dragon Magazine. I would like to see stuff like this. Dimensionalists (specializing in time and space not necessarily traveling through time) and transfusers (specializing in apportation or travel magic) were just two that I recall.
7) Full Adventures: I want the opposite of the Adventure Path. The Adventure Paths are written with 6 or more modules as a single campaign that can be used as stand alone adventures. I want a bunch of stand alone adventures with ideas on how they may work as part of an ongoing campaign. If you write adventures for all levels of play, you can use other adventures as hooks for each other. This allows me, ad the GM, to pick and choose how my campaign is going to turn out based on what the players and I want.
8) Short adventures: These should be written to last a single night (about 4 to 5 hours of play). These should be relatively stand alone but can have notes that integrate them into other adventures you may have written. Again, make me want to buy more of your stuff.
9) Sets of new rules that I don’t have the time or energy to create: Weather, economy, crafting, etc, are all things that require more work than I want to put into something but I would be more than willing to pay someone else for their work.
10) Unique items (magical or not) with a general history that I can use with the Knowledge (history) skill or bardic knowledge. I don’t want anything too specific. I like names and general locations. If you are going to be specific, let’s say with the name of a god, then make sure you also tell me what part of the god’s portfolio would be appropriate in case I don’t use those gods. For example, if you create a magical bow meant for Erastil’s clerics, make sure you make a small note (in parenthesis), that it could be for any cleric of a hunting god. This way, if I don’t use the gods in the setting, I can easily find another god in the setting I am in without having to do a lot of extra work.
If you also use software for your games, like Hero Lab, a downloadable file with this stuff in there if possible would be nice as well. For example, if you write an adventure, you can have a file with the NPCs, new monsters, new gear, etc, all in there as well to make my life just that much easier.
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Some of your wants have been covered.
2) I know 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming has a book coming out with different breads of dogs, horses and cats. I have the dog book and it is pretty good if thats what your looking for.
4) There is a few books with these in them but not one with them collected. More they have been added to other books here and there.
6) There has been a couple of books with them in them for a few 3pp.
7) There is a few of these, Frog God Games has done the most of them but several others have them. I know Rite Publishing, Headless Hyrda, Raging Swan all have them and I am sure more that currently escape me at the moment.
8) See 7 above.
9) Has been a couple of them, a crafting book came out and for the life of me I forget who did it. Spes Magna games I think.
10) Purple Duck Games has their legendary weapons 1 and 2 and now items book out. They have history though are ones that get more powerful as the PC does.
Not disagreeing with what you want or even saying more of what you list wouldn't be good, Just that some of them are makeing stuff like that.
Some of your wants have been covered.
2) I know 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming has a book coming out with different breads of dogs, horses and cats. I have the dog book and it is pretty good if thats what your looking for.
Sweet! Thanks. I'll look for them.
4) There is a few books with these in them but not one with them collected. More they have been added to other books here and there.
I don't necessarily need all of them compiled into one tome but it would be nice to have several interesting materials in one location so I don't have to jump from book to book.
6) There has been a couple of books with them in them for a few 3pp.
Any idea where I could find them? I would like to look them over before downloading them. I don't know why, but I have really liked specialist wizards since 2nd Edition. Even when I don't use them, I just love reading about them.
7) There is a few of these, Frog God Games has done the most of them but several others have them. I know Rite Publishing, Headless Hyrda, Raging Swan all have them and I am sure more that currently escape me at the moment.8) See 7 above.
That's awesome. I'll have to take a look.
9) Has been a couple of them, a crafting book came out and for the life of me I forget who did it. Spes Magna games I think.
I was looking at the Crafting Made Easy (I think that's the title). I'll probably buy it no matter what since it's only a buck.
10) Purple Duck Games has their legendary weapons 1 and 2 and now items book out. They have history though are ones that get more powerful as the PC does.
Excellent! I was thinking about something like that but I had forgotten about it as I was writing. I will definitely look into that.
Not disagreeing with what you want or even saying more of what you list wouldn't be good, Just that some of them are makeing stuff like that.
Thank you very much for your answers. It's sometimes hard to find products that have what I want because I can't always search by keyword. If the title doesn't have the subject material, then I can easily miss it.
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Yeah the material and specialist Wizard are the hard ones. Not cause they don't exist but cause they are scattered all over. I know SGG books like book of ICe magic I know has one as does most of their books like that. Like the ice magic has one for cold or ice forget which. I believe one of the 4 Winds Fantasy books does I think the Arcane book forget the full name. Same with some of the others. Honestly with out me going threw each book I doubt i would remember
But on the plus side I have reviewed many of the 3pp books and i tend to list it if they have something like that in them. Same with material. So you could just check my reviews too. Might help you find what you are looking for.
Edit: Purple Duck Games you have to find on Drivethru/RPGnow, they have a special deal and they can only sell there for one year. But you can find my reviews here in the forums of the products and some of them on those sites as well.
That's good advice. I am just now starting to really look into 3rd party stuff. I have found some stuff in the past with 3.5 but it seemed pretty hit or miss. I know that was mostly because the market was new and everyone was jumping in. Now that every would-be designer isn't throwing his or her hat into the ring, I think it may be easier to find some good stuff.
4WFG offers the Elemental Wizard specialist in Paths of Power, and the Tattooed Mage in Inkantations. They're wizards, and can easily be added to any game setting, but their methods are slightly different.
As far as 7/8 is concerned, have you looked at Tales of the Old Margreve?
Really, and I'll readily admit my bias, but you aren't going to go wrong checking out Open Design and Kobold Quarterly. Sunken Empires, the Imperial Gazetteer, the Advanced Feat series-- it's all got interesting material to it.
And if you're willing to do the upgrade on it, Talesof Zobeck is analogous to Tales of the Old Margreve, but in an urban environment.
For sheer cool-awesome-fun, though, you'll be hard-pressed to find a better high level adventure for Pathfinder than Coliseum Morpheuon.
-Ben.
4WFG offers the Elemental Wizard specialist in Paths of Power, and the Tattooed Mage in Inkantations. They're wizards, and can easily be added to any game setting, but their methods are slightly different.
I remember some 3.5 books called Paths of Power. Is this the same thing but updated to Pathfinder? I am very interested in the tattoo mage. It reminds me of a dwarf I played in 3.5. He was a blood mage who couldn't grow body hair due to an accident with a fireball spell. He enjoyed carving the spells into his skin. He was a little "off" and would often take a very direct approach to his problems. I would love to rework him as a tattoo mage especially if I can combine it with the blood mage.
As far as 7/8 is concerned, have you looked at Tales of the Old Margreve?
Thanks for the suggestion. Buying now...
Really, and I'll readily admit my bias, but you aren't going to go wrong checking out Open Design and Kobold Quarterly. Sunken Empires, the Imperial Gazetteer, the Advanced Feat series-- it's all got interesting material to it.
I did get the KQ-11 free issue but I haven't spent much time with it. At first glance, it looks pretty good. Honestly, I'm not used to getting 3rd party stuff so I forgot about it. I should make a point of reading it.
And if you're willing to do the upgrade on it, Talesof Zobeck is analogous to Tales of the Old Margreve, but in an urban environment.
I'll take a look. Updating to Pathfinder is pretty easy.
For sheer cool-awesome-fun, though, you'll be hard-pressed to find a better high level adventure for Pathfinder than Coliseum Morpheuon.
-Ben.
There goes another instant sale. I was planning on running another Adventure Path and this would be a good end to the campaign if I do it right. I'll have to now figure out which AP I want to run and see how I can integrate the two.
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Bob,
Here are some wizard schools and their product. Not exhaustive, just the onces I know of from 3PP
Cold (Genius Guide to Ice Magic)
Crystal (Genius Guide to Crystal Magic)
Earth (Genius Guide to Earth Magic)
Nature (Kobold Quarterly 15)
Sleep (Genius guide to Deam Magic)
Wind (Genius Guide ot Air Magic)
With the exception of the Nature School, all are from Otherworld Entertainment (also known as Super Genius gaems)
I remember some 3.5 books called Paths of Power. Is this the same thing but updated to Pathfinder? I am very interested in the tattoo mage. It reminds me of a dwarf I played in 3.5. He was a blood mage who couldn't grow body hair due to an accident with a fireball spell. He enjoyed carving the spells into his skin. He was a little "off" and would often take a very direct approach to his problems. I would love to rework him as a tattoo mage especially if I can combine it with the blood mage.
4WFG's Paths of Power is not an update of any book. It was created specifically to be compatible with the PFRPG.
I remember some 3.5 books called Paths of Power. Is this the same thing but updated to Pathfinder? I am very interested in the tattoo mage. It reminds me of a dwarf I played in 3.5. He was a blood mage who couldn't grow body hair due to an accident with a fireball spell. He enjoyed carving the spells into his skin. He was a little "off" and would often take a very direct approach to his problems. I would love to rework him as a tattoo mage especially if I can combine it with the blood mage.4WFG's Paths of Power is not an update of any book. It was created specifically to be compatible with the PFRPG.
And if you like Blood Mages, well, Ryan Costello worked up a Blood Caster Prestige Class in the excellent Strategists & Tacticians. However, the Blood Caster is for spontaneous casters, so it doesn't combine with the Tattoo Mage, who must prepare their spells. The Tattoo Mage basically uses their skin as their spellbook.
We also have a one-shot adventure module for 8th to 10th level characters, called Albion Armitage's Astounding Arsenal, which also includes a couple unique monsters, new equipment, and NPCs.
7) Full Adventures: I want the opposite of the Adventure Path. The Adventure Paths are written with 6 or more modules as a single campaign that can be used as stand alone adventures. I want a bunch of stand alone adventures with ideas on how they may work as part of an ongoing campaign. If you write adventures for all levels of play, you can use other adventures as hooks for each other. This allows me, ad the GM, to pick and choose how my campaign is going to turn out based on what the players and I want.
Raging Swan Press (or which I am the owner [full disclosure!]) has released two full adventures designed to easily drop into a GM's personal campaign. Retribution is for 1st-level PCs and the great start to a campaign. Road of the Dead is for 3rd-level PCs and features a rather unique self-contained dungeon crawl. Finally, if drug-addled lizardfolk are more to your taste, you should definitely check out Dark Oak (which releases later this month).
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7) Full Adventures: I want the opposite of the Adventure Path. The Adventure Paths are written with 6 or more modules as a single campaign that can be used as stand alone adventures. I want a bunch of stand alone adventures with ideas on how they may work as part of an ongoing campaign. If you write adventures for all levels of play, you can use other adventures as hooks for each other. This allows me, ad the GM, to pick and choose how my campaign is going to turn out based on what the players and I want.Raging Swan Press (or which I am the owner [full disclosure!]) has released two full adventures designed to easily drop into a GM's personal campaign. Retribution is for 1st-level PCs and the great start to a campaign. Road of the Dead is for 3rd-level PCs and features a rather unique self-contained dungeon crawl. Finally, if drug-addled lizardfolk are more to your taste, you should definitely check out Dark Oak (which releases later this month).
You was one of the companies I did mention up thread for adventures. i know I forgot others with adventures. :)
You was one of the companies I did mention up thread for adventures. i know I forgot others with adventures. :)
Which was jolly decent of you! I just couldn't resist a little bit of self-promotion. ;-)
What I would REALLY like to see is more companies working together to make joint producs (Shameless plug: Dreamscarred Press and LPJ Design for Races of NeoExodus: Psionic Cavian) or two companies taking one side of sourcebook that bothe work together (Green Ronin & Paradigm Concepts with their OGL Interlink products). Not only does this strengthen Pathfinder, it also exposes each others customers to each other, which in turn makes the two companies stronger. That is a win-win!
What I would REALLY like to see is more companies working together to make joint producs (Shameless plug: Dreamscarred Press and LPJ Design for Races of NeoExodus: Psionic Cavian) or two companies taking one side of sourcebook that bothe work together (Green Ronin & Paradigm Concepts with their OGL Interlink products). Not only does this strengthen Pathfinder, it also exposes each others customers to each other, which in turn makes the two companies stronger. That is a win-win!
Yup. I absolutely agree.
And although there's only two part-time guys who work at Dreamscarred Press (me and Andreas both have full-time day jobs and families and do RPGs in our spare time), we're happy to do such projects for folks looking to implement psionics. :)
we're happy to do such projects for folks looking to implement psionics. :)Oooo...! I need to find a way to contact you...!
jeremy.smith AT dreamscarredpress.com :)
Fair warning - my ability to meet deadlines is very much dependent on the the amount of work and other projects going on at the time ;)