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Anyone else heard about this? Supposed to be a fantasy/steampunk campaign saga for both 4E and PFRPG. Might be a fun setting to play a gunslinger in!
Heard of it yes, but I didn't see a announcement that it would for sure be done in PFRPG. I knew it was being considered but had not seen anything on it being decided yet.
PFRG support also means it's something I'll look at when it's out. I was a player in a campaign that used the first ENWorld AP War of the Burning Sky. WotBS was a decent AP. Not quite the same level of quality as Paizo APs, but still an enjoyable set of adventures.
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PFRG support also means it's something I'll look at when it's out. I was a player in a campaign that used the first ENWorld AP War of the Burning Sky. WotBS was a decent AP. Not quite the same level of quality as Paizo APs, but still an enjoyable set of adventures.
Yeah, the fact that WotBS wasn't PFRPG was what kept me from playing it. . . so I'm curious about this Zeitgeist. I've never played any "steam punk" games before, though.
I've been dreaming of a good steampunk game for a long time and this might just be it. I am looking forward to see how this project develops.
Just guessing enough people mentioned they wanted to see it with pathfinder stats. If enough people tell me they want to see my stuff in a certain system I'd switch.
I can't really imagine designing an AP for both PFRPG and 4ed. One word, fly.
Hehe. Hi, I'm Ryan Nock, the guy heading up ZEITGEIST. Before Russ even mentioned the idea of a Pathfinder conversion, I'd already decided to have it so flight magic doesn't work the same in the setting, due to some planar oddities.
It was partly because when we were working on WotBS, we had a lot of flight in the higher-level adventures (in one adventure, written by Wolfgang Baur, you're flying pretty much the entire time); I wanted an in-world explanation for why our last AP had lots of flight, and this one didn't. The rules-mechanics explanation was because 4e is stingier with long-duration flight magic (though there's a lot more one-round flight abilities).
So now it's firmly established in the setting description that the elemental air magic flowing from the plane of air is just insufficient to sustain long-duration flight.
Well, if you have any questions about ZEITGEIST, please ask. We'll be putting out the Player's Guide within a month or two, and we're looking for someone to help with the conversion from 4e to Pathfinder. If you're interested, let us know here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/en-publishing/302819-pathfinder-conversion-zei tgeist.html
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I can't really imagine designing an AP for both PFRPG and 4ed. One word, fly.Hehe. Hi, I'm Ryan Nock, the guy heading up ZEITGEIST. Before Russ even mentioned the idea of a Pathfinder conversion, I'd already decided to have it so flight magic doesn't work the same in the setting, due to some planar oddities.
It was partly because when we were working on WotBS, we had a lot of flight in the higher-level adventures (in one adventure, written by Wolfgang Baur, you're flying pretty much the entire time); I wanted an in-world explanation for why our last AP had lots of flight, and this one didn't. The rules-mechanics explanation was because 4e is stingier with long-duration flight magic (though there's a lot more one-round flight abilities).
So now it's firmly established in the setting description that the elemental air magic flowing from the plane of air is just insufficient to sustain long-duration flight.
Well, if you have any questions about ZEITGEIST, please ask. We'll be putting out the Player's Guide within a month or two, and we're looking for someone to help with the conversion from 4e to Pathfinder. If you're interested, let us know here:
Fixed the link for you.
Just guessing enough people mentioned they wanted to see it with pathfinder stats. If enough people tell me they want to see my stuff in a certain system I'd switch.
I want to see your stuff for Live Action My Little Pony RPG. :)
That's 1. Anyone else? Anyone know if there is an open license for this?
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Just guessing enough people mentioned they wanted to see it with pathfinder stats. If enough people tell me they want to see my stuff in a certain system I'd switch.I want to see your stuff for Live Action My Little Pony RPG. :)That's 1. Anyone else? Anyone know if there is an open license for this?
Well you would likely have to make the Live Action Little Pony RPG rules first but I am so totally for it.
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That's not just fly that is a problem, although it is a iconic 3.5/4e issue.
Things you might have to tackle on:
- 4e monsters exist as part of encounter. If you have an encounter that has 12 Kobold Shadowslashers, 6 Kobold Doomcallers and 2 Young Yellow Dragons in 4e, having three of those walk out to watch the sunset is hardly an option since it blows up the encounter package. In 3e, it's much more easy to have the monsters act "out of the box"
- 3,5e has much more powerful utility magic than 4e rituals (which don't really work as advertised to begin with, since they're too expensive). A 3.5 party can literally alter reality during the downtime
- magic item economy. It works so completely different (and actually 4e isn't consistent within itself on the matter, compare vanilla 43 with essentials) between the games, that I believe a major part of the world background must be altered between the versions.
Hmm. Well, I played the War of the Burning Sky in 3.5e, and ran a Pathfinder version of it that I was converting as I went. When I checked the EN boards for stuff on the game, I had to really make sure I was looking at non-4e stuff, because just from the sounds of it, it felt like there were complete plot and character changes involved with the switch to 4e.
Some of that could be simply the guys having a "second go" at the material, and spicing certain things up here or there that they felt were weak the first time.
I did get the impression that 4e encounter design had a pretty big influence on the converted material, and I could imagine it'd be a unrecognizably different play experience playing 4e vs 3e.
In that sense, I don't imagine that the Pathfinder and 4e versions of Zeitgeist will be any more recognizably similar in experience.
Which is fine. I mean, we play Pathfinder because we want what it gives (the open-ended feeling, the utility and world changing magic, etc).
I'd be fine with a Pathfinder version of Zeitgeist that didn't try to emulate "exactly" what the 4e version did, but rather took the plot line and background and theme, and made it it's own (with encounters and characters and player expectations being potentially completely different).
That's not just fly that is a problem, although it is a iconic 3.5/4e issue.
Things you might have to tackle on:
- 4e monsters exist as part of encounter. If you have an encounter that has 12 Kobold Shadowslashers, 6 Kobold Doomcallers and 2 Young Yellow Dragons in 4e, having three of those walk out to watch the sunset is hardly an option since it blows up the encounter package. In 3e, it's much more easy to have the monsters act "out of the box"
- 3,5e has much more powerful utility magic than 4e rituals (which don't really work as advertised to begin with, since they're too expensive). A 3.5 party can literally alter reality during the downtime
- magic item economy. It works so completely different (and actually 4e isn't consistent within itself on the matter, compare vanilla 43 with essentials) between the games, that I believe a major part of the world background must be altered between the versions.
I agree. The pathfinder version will have to be written differently in some areas due to underlying workings of each system. I don't think you can just restat monsters and call it a day.
If the fly spell is going to break the game then it might be easier to fix that than try to explain it away, but I don't know the exact explanation on how fly won't work so I can't really say a whole lot.I would look at some of the RPG superstars. I am sure some of them have 4th edition experience.
To be honest I don't think knowing 4E experience is even a factor for being chosen to help with the adventure though. All that it should take is the ability to look at the adventure as written and choose/create the write NPC's to fill in at certain points. There is no reason why it has to be a 4e to Pathfinder conversion which is what I am getting from the message.
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Well, I'm still not 100% convinced of the wisdom of competing with Paizo with their own core system and their own area of specialization. I found it easy to sell 4E APs because there aren't any (well, aren't many), but Paizo already produces top-notch APs itself.
True, but Paizo's AP's do NOT go to level 20. . . most seem to be hitting around 15. A 20 level AP is not really compatible with Paizo's 6 month model; it's too difficult to tell a story of that length given those self imposed constraints.
I normally don't even look at 3rd party adventures, but there are two things about Zeitgeist that intrigue me:
1)Play to level 20; and
2)Steampunk. You guys can mix up the genre a bit for this one epic story, whereas the Paizo AP's are confined to setting of Golarion. Granted, they made Golarion with nearly everything but the kitchen sink (Jungles, gothic horror, ancient civilizations, etc), but they don't have steampunk. I suppose the closest thing would be Numerian technology.
Ryan, I've been tempted to "volunteer" but my writing plate is a little full at the moment. Do you have some idea of what the production timeline and expected turnover rate for the project is/will be.
I would love to volunteer, but I don't have any experience other than my group, and building things for other DM's. I also tend to make encounters a little more on the difficult side than what most people are used too.
If any of you get picked throw some grinders in there for me. :)
I think this is exciting news. I hadn't realized Zeitgeist was going to be PFRPG compatible, so had ignored it. A steampunk AP is a great thing to have out there in my opinion; scratches a different itch than the Paizo product. Good luck with it.
Also: people are using "volunteer" above, but I think that the Pathfinder conversion would be a paid position, no?
If this is provided as an actual PFRPG release, I'm definitely interested in picking it up. Would even enjoy seeing a setting for it. :)
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Yup. This is a professional paid job. We're not after volunteers.Also: people are using "volunteer" above, but I think that the Pathfinder conversion would be a paid position, no?
Russell, to repeat/reword my question above: What timeline are you looking at with this part of the project? At least for the completion of the first adventure conversion to the PFRPG?
Just guessing enough people mentioned they wanted to see it with pathfinder stats. If enough people tell me they want to see my stuff in a certain system I'd switch.I want to see your stuff for Live Action My Little Pony RPG. :)
So do I, as long as it's the Friendship is Magic edition. :D
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Drop Ryan an email - he's supervising it. It's too complicated to go into on a messageboard. But we'd need the *first* manuscript in a month or so.
Russell, to repeat/reword my question above: What timeline are you looking at with this part of the project? At least for the completion of the first adventure conversion to the PFRPG?
Email sent. Thanks.
I saw on RPGNow that the pre-order for the AP is $59.99 and when the first issue is released, it reverts to $79.99. Is that PDF only, or will it include a soft/hard-cover edition?
Hmm, sounds interesting.
I hope its any good because I am waiting for a steampunk setting ever since falling in love with Agatha Heterodyne :-)
Because its a steampunk setting I daresay there will be quite some crunch involved to ice the fluff cake.
Still it's true that while low levels don't make much of a difference starting Level 7-8 4e encounters/challenges can't be simply restatted to Pathfinder in most cases.
Still this is exciting for pathfinder that a medium so decidedly anti-anti-4e as enworld finally sees the light ;-)
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So do I, as long as it's the Friendship is Magic edition. :DJust guessing enough people mentioned they wanted to see it with pathfinder stats. If enough people tell me they want to see my stuff in a certain system I'd switch.I want to see your stuff for Live Action My Little Pony RPG. :)
HELL YES.
I saw on RPGNow that the pre-order for the AP is $59.99 and when the first issue is released, it reverts to $79.99. Is that PDF only, or will it include a soft/hard-cover edition?Just the PDF ($59.99 works out to $4.99 per adventure). None of the online RPG retailers (rpgnow, DTRPG, Paizo, etc.) offer a way for us to produce a hard-copy subscription - at least yet. If any of them do in the future, we'll do it immediately.
They'll also be on sale individually both here at Paizo.com, and at other retailers, for a higher price (and individually in softcover format at those sites which offer it as print-on-demand, such as RPGNow). Plus of course the EN World subscription method, but that encompasses more than just this AP.
So there will be plenty of different options to get hold of it - subscriptions, individual purchases, softcovers, etc.
And, of course, the initial Player Guide and GM Guide will be completely free in PDF format and available everywhere the adventures are, and sold for close to cost price in softcover format.
Incidentally, there's a 2-page ZEITGEIST intro PDF now available for free here in the Paizo store and elsewhere, and we'll have a short 2-page pretty "Player's Primer" handout available for free in the next few days (this will be a highly, highly condensed version of the Player Guide with some essential background info - if your players don't want to read the Player Guide, they can get by with the Primer).
Thanks for sharing. :)
Roughly how many pages will be included in each adventure (I'm assuming there's a total of twelve, given the math)? If one were to subscribe to this, would the option exist to obtain a compiled softcover at a lesser price than the retail release?
Hard to say until we go to layout - and, indeed, consult with our Pathfinder developer once we hire him/her. Tiny things like our choice of font size, etc. will drastically affect the page count. If WotBS 4E was anything to go by, they varied from 60-120 pages, but Pathfinder stat blocks are longer and we're spending about twice what we did on WotBS - so more artwork, handouts, etc.
There's no current plan for a compiled version. When we asked people whether they wanted a compiled version of 4E WotBS, the response was an overwhelming no; and, frankly, because we have to do it via print-on-demand, a book of that size ends up costing a fortune (the 800-ish page WotBS 3.5 hardcover is $199, and believe me we weren't making much money on that).
So, unlikely unless there's a big swelling of demand from hundreds of people willing to pay close to $200 for a compiled campaign! And in any case, we wouldn't even start thinking about it until near the end of the adventure path, which is well over a year away.
Fair enough. You mentioned a separate expanded Player's guide. I guess what I'm curious about this is that I am pining more on a campaign setting that's steampunked versus the actual adventure itself. I want the races, the devices, the classes, new monsters -- all that good stuff.
Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with WotBS to see what all was contained in the individual releases. I can only go by what I currently subscribe via Paizo.
Thanks again for following up. :)
You could download the free Player and DM guides for WotBS to get an idea of what type of thing we put in them. The ZEITGEIST ones will have a little more in them, and more colour art, but it's enough to give you a basic idea of how we approach the Player/GM guides for our APs. Best download the 4E version of those guides, as we did those much later - so they more closely match where we are these days with APs than the 3.5 ones which were done a few years ago.
You can grab the WotBS 4E one here: link
Obviously, bear in mind that's 4E not Pathfinder, but it gives a sense of what to expect. The ZEITGEIST one has more detail and player options in the Player Guide and the DM (GM) Guide has a much more detailed summary of the entire adventure path.
I've seen the two page ZEITGEIST guide, but not an official 'intro pack'. I assume that'll be released soon, correct? Just want to make sure I didn't overlook anything.
And thanks for the WotBS link. :)
Chief Technical Officer
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Incidentally, there's a 2-page ZEITGEIST intro PDF now available for free here in the Paizo store and elsewhere...
You can find that here.
Russell any thoughts of doing a compiled version using the OBS/Lightning Source, I know for full color the costs are significantly lower than LULU.com
Also have you announced who is doing the conversion yet?