Monster class skills and languages

[reefwood]

I have a some questions about monster stats, but they have come up in particular from the Xorn.

Q#1a. Are class skills for monster based only on their Type and Subtypes?

Q#1b. Or are all skills listed in the monster entry treated as class skills? Even if they don't have any ranks but are listed?

Q#1c. If a monster receives a racial modifier to a skill, does that skill become a class skill for the monster, even if it is not a class skill for its Type/Subtype?

The reason I ask is because the handful of monsters I've tweaked (and therefore, had to figure out their exact numbers break down) so far seem to only treat Type and Subtype skills as class skills, even if other skills are listed in the monster entry.

However, the Xorn receives 42 skill ranks ([6 +0 Int mod] x7 HD), but if I only treat Type skills as class skills, the Xorn needs to 54 skill ranks to reach the listed skill numbers. Whereas, treating all skills listed in the entry as class skills does work out correct with only 42 skill ranks.

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Q#2a. Should a creature with a humanoid level of Intelligence be able to understand at least 1 language, even if it can't speak?

Again with the Xorn... no language is listed, but its description says that some Xorns pick up character classes, including spellcasting classes. I know that the language of magic isn't a normal language, but usually if you turn into a creature that cannot speak, you cannot cast spells with verbal components.

Anyway, I guess what I really want to know is...

Q#2b. Should the Xorn have a language listed because it has Int 10?

Q#2c. If it has no language, does it need to take a rank in Linguistics to become a spellcaster? Or can it just garble verbal components out of its languageless mouth?

[Ksorkrax]

reefwood wrote:

(...) but usually if you turn into a creature that cannot speak, you cannot cast spells with verbal components.

You have to differentiate between the devoir (being potentially able to do something) and the savoir (know how to do it)

I for example can pronounce "Gurash Ha-Roon Ta´Reez! Gasid Ke Bendo!" which could be a magical formula, however I don´t have a clue what that could mean translated.
Applied to the Xorn: he is able to pronounce language and that´s all what the verbal component needs. He doesn´t know what the stuff he chants actually mean for he doesn´t know the language it´s in but unlike say a bear his throat can pronounce that language.
(stuff I wrote is not necessarily RAW)

[reefwood]

Ksorkrax wrote:

reefwood wrote:

(...) but usually if you turn into a creature that cannot speak, you cannot cast spells with verbal components.

You have to differentiate between the devoir (being potentially able to do something) and the savoir (know how to do it)

I for example can pronounce "Gurash Ha-Roon Ta´Reez! Gasid Ke Bendo!" which could be a magical formula, however I don´t have a clue what that could mean translated.
Applied to the Xorn: he is able to pronounce language and that´s all what the verbal component needs. He doesn´t know what the stuff he chants actually mean for he doesn´t know the language it´s in but unlike say a bear his throat can pronounce that language.
(stuff I wrote is not necessarily RAW)

Yeah, I'm not too worried about the lack of language for the spellcasting part. I'm just wondering if the PCs will be able to communicate with it, if they try.

[Are]

I figure the Xorn should be able to speak Terran, at least.

[reefwood]

Are wrote:

I figure the Xorn should be able to speak Terran, at least.

That's what I figure too.

And anyone have an idea about monster class skills (question in opening post)?

[Drejk]

reefwood wrote:

I have a some questions about monster stats, but they have come up in particular from the Xorn.

However, the Xorn receives 42 skill ranks ([6 +0 Int mod] x7 HD), but if I only treat Type skills as class skills, the Xorn needs to 54 skill ranks to reach the listed skill numbers. Whereas, treating all skills listed in the entry as class skills does work out correct with only 42 skill ranks.

I checked Xorn and its skills are within limits of 7 HD outsider as all the six are its class skills: Perception and Stealth are class skills for all outsiders the remaining four are Xorn class skills as all Outsiders have "Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme."

Quote:

Again with the Xorn... no language is listed, but its description says that some Xorns pick up character classes, including spellcasting classes. I know that the language of magic isn't a normal language, but usually if you turn into a creature that cannot speak, you cannot cast spells with verbal components.

Anyway, I guess what I really want to know is...

Q#2b. Should the Xorn have a language listed because it has Int 10?

Q#2c. If it has no language, does it need to take a rank in Linguistics to become a spellcaster? Or can it just garble verbal components out of its languageless mouth?

It might be just an omission. I think pre-PF itterations of Xorn could speak Terran.

(checks SRD 3.5)
Yes, Xorn speaks Common and Terran - it must be an omission unless designers deliberately cut out spoken speech from them but I can't think of reason why.

[reefwood]

Drejk wrote:

I checked Xorn and its skills are within limits of 7 HD outsider as all the six are its class skills: Perception and Stealth are class skills for all outsiders the remaining four are Xorn class skills as all Outsiders have "Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme."

Thank you for highlighting that last part about the 4 additional skills. I totally missed that.

Drejk wrote:

It might be just an omission. I think pre-PF itterations of Xorn could speak Terran.

(checks SRD 3.5)
Yes, Xorn speaks Common and Terran - it must be an omission unless designers deliberately cut out spoken speech from them but I can't think of reason why.

Yeah, that's why I figure. Thanks again!