Well gentlemen, Ive sorta had my question answered, and we keep getting into the same circle of questions where Im required to read another's mind. So I guess we're done here.
Thanks Bobson and Majuba. You've both been a big help.
You're welcome. Have fun, and let us know how it goes!
Well, I certainly didn't expect that. That sucks.
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We're 2nd, almost 3rd level, and he doesnt want me to create a new character, but keep playing this one, "for continuity's sake" (Im cool with that)
But he hates sorcerers; his idea of a mage (any mage) is all blast spells, magic item creation, and utility spells are on scrolls or items. And he feels that Sorcerers "get too many spells to cast, and not enough known". Which to me means he just hates the whole premise of the class.
This guy would really hate my overpowered Conjurer then. With Evocation and Necromancy as opposed schools, I don't do an awful lot of damage. I'm basically built around the "god mage" archtype where I use my spells to control the battlefield, crowd control the hordes of enemies, buff allies, and debuff opponents. My damage comes from a Wand of Acid Arrow that I made.
Now why he didnt tell me to play a wizard in the first place, I dont know. Especially when he waited to say that it would be a low magic world til after we started.
So, I need to figure out what I get to start with, what I need to buy, and how much its going to cost in money and feats, since Im getting shoehorned into a class-switch. And having some "official ruling/RAW" is going to help, since this GM isnt willing to work with me. (he's demanding the change, but its "my fault" :roll: )Its not the switch that bothers me; I even have a fun storyline explenation for it. Its the fact that if he'd told me in the first place, this would have been unnecessary.
Personally, I would tell him, hey, if you want a wizard instead of a sorcerer, you either should let me restat him as a wizard or work it into the game that I "spontaneously abandon" the inborn approach to magic and pursue the Art of learned magic.
The DM has no business telling his players his limitations or other house rules after the fact, which certainly would have impacted character creation. If he is so immature as to treat you in such a fashion, perhaps you should search for another DM that is more open minded.
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well, all that for nothing.
Tonight we played, and 15 min into it, our 5 players got swarmed by 20 goblins. No chance to surrender, no chance to run, TPK. And he swears its a "random encounter" :roll:
I wouldnta
scratch that, I would have minded dying after all that work, but could have taken it on the chin if it could have been cool. but mowed down by goblins with daggers? *sigh* And the hard part is trying to keep the young'uns in a good mood about it; remind them its just a game, and these things happen, while trying not to be pissed at the dink myselfIm gonna have words with the FLGS manager about this, warn him what this guy's become. Prevent others from having a similar experience
It is too bad you guys could not beat them (by some miracle). That was about a CR 7 encounter and (if he was playing by the book) should have granted you all about 800 xp each and 23,500 gp to split up.
(If I did my CR math right for that, that is)How many where knocked unconscious, blinded and stunned from your color spray? (Always liked that spell at low levels.. )
well, all that for nothing.
Tonight we played, and 15 min into it, our 5 players got swarmed by 20 goblins. No chance to surrender, no chance to run, TPK. And he swears its a "random encounter" :roll:
I wouldnta
scratch that, I would have minded dying after all that work, but could have taken it on the chin if it could have been cool. but mowed down by goblins with daggers? *sigh* And the hard part is trying to keep the young'uns in a good mood about it; remind them its just a game, and these things happen, while trying not to be pissed at the dink myselfIm gonna have words with the FLGS manager about this, warn him what this guy's become. Prevent others from having a similar experience
This guy sucks as a DM. He has no concept of balance along with a lot of other things. I would just tell them he sucks instead of shielding him. I would also have a DM to DM talk with him. If he would not come around I would start looking for another DM. If you aint having fun then it aint too much of a point in playin'.
Well, now that you've had a TPK- and you want to keep the spirits up, how's this for a plan?
YOU DM.
Sounds like you know what you're doing and this guy... doesn't. Frankly, he sounds like someone way too ingrained in the 'video game' bastardization of RPG. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy them as much as the next mountain dew swishing min-maxer, but that's kinda killing the point of the freedom inherent in the table top.
You guys had no option beyond combat in a random encounter? the DM perceives spellcasters as being nothing more than magical artillery that shouldn't waste magic on utility spells? Your party should not get totally killed by a bunch of self serving goblins. 2 guys shoulda fell and half of the little greenskins should have swarmed the bodies to 'get the shinies' before some other cuss does.
Giving your DM the benefit of the doubt, he's just missing it. Therefore he needs an example, a standard to measure by. Run the game, make it fun, make it engaging, and if you do it right everyone will more or less forget about this fellow's misguided attempt to 'win' as the DM.
How many where knocked unconscious, blinded and stunned from your color spray? (Always liked that spell at low levels.. ):) I got about half. And my Buddy's son ran a halfling rogue with poisoned daggers for the Coup de tat. Between that ant the Barbarian Raging, there was hope for a bit.
Then one of the goblins turned out to be a shamman "suddenly" and summon II. After we killed 3/4ths of them. seemed wonky strategy to me....So, yeah. Im the new DM, but Im not up to speed on PF rules. So I'll be here a lot buggin you guys with questions.
Thanks in advance for the help. :)
It's sad that you're going to be sitting across the screen from your friend again, but at least the kids will have a better experience out of it. Question away!
Read through this chain, and have two thoughts to offer.
The first is that, despite the rules discussion, this isn't a rules issue, it's a people issue. The gamemaster here is a jerk. No amount of rules discussion or character optimization is going to help make him less of a jerk. Some kind of social intervention might work, but out of game issues have to be solved out of game.
The other is that, given that the gamemaster is (was) a jerk, the game was going to be a poor gaming experience. Which, apparently, it was, and even for new gamers struggling to find a game - it's better not to have a game than have a poor gaming experience. Those can sour persons on the entire RPG concept forever.
MI
How many where knocked unconscious, blinded and stunned from your color spray? (Always liked that spell at low levels.. ):) I got about half. And my Buddy's son ran a halfling rogue with poisoned daggers for the Coup de tat. Between that ant the Barbarian Raging, there was hope for a bit.
Then one of the goblins turned out to be a shamman "suddenly" and summon II. After we killed 3/4ths of them. seemed wonky strategy to me....So, yeah. Im the new DM, but Im not up to speed on PF rules. So I'll be here a lot buggin you guys with questions.
Thanks in advance for the help. :)
So I gotta ask... did he actually cast summon monster II (with the 1 round casting time, giving you an opportunity to stop him) or did some baddies just POOF- Oh now you're being full round attacked...
Then one of the goblins turned out to be a shamman "suddenly" and summon II. After we killed 3/4ths of them. seemed wonky strategy to me....
This is usually the way I play goblin spellcasters -- they hang back and wait to use their spells until things are not going their way.
I'm not saying THIS guy wasn't just making it up, but I just wanted to point out that I've ran encounters with goblins that way more than once.Of course, when I did it, the goblins still lost. After all, PC's are supposed to win!
well, all that for nothing.
Tonight we played, and 15 min into it, our 5 players got swarmed by 20 goblins. No chance to surrender, no chance to run, TPK. And he swears its a "random encounter" :roll:
Sounds like you should run the next game.
So, yeah. Im the new DM, but Im not up to speed on PF rules. So I'll be here a lot buggin you guys with questions.
Huzzah! I hope your game shows the same drive for fun that you were looking for here.
Send yer questions!
GNOME
How many where knocked unconscious, blinded and stunned from your color spray? (Always liked that spell at low levels.. ):) I got about half. And my Buddy's son ran a halfling rogue with poisoned daggers for the Coup de tat. Between that ant the Barbarian Raging, there was hope for a bit.
Then one of the goblins turned out to be a shamman "suddenly" and summon II. After we killed 3/4ths of them. seemed wonky strategy to me....So, yeah. Im the new DM, but Im not up to speed on PF rules. So I'll be here a lot buggin you guys with questions.
Thanks in advance for the help. :)
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway shoot away.
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Anyway shoot away.
:P
PPPPPPPBBBBBBBBBTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!111(lol)
Hahahahaahahahahahaha
I don't think a GM should force a player to multiclass just because the player plays a class he doesn't like. Seems to me, your GM can't even understand the basic of GMing.
If he makes you multiclass, leave the game. My GM hates bard but I know he will only take it on the NPC, not the PC. So if your GM forced you to do anything that's not in the book, you should find a better GM who could take you to a true world where you may find your own path. At the end, doesn't matter what character you play, it's what path you choose. That's what pathfinder's all about.
The group is arguing about multiclassing. Can someone please explain exactly how it works in order to head off the inevitable fight with our "rules lawyers"
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The group is arguing about multiclassing. Can someone please explain exactly how it works in order to head off the inevitable fight with our "rules lawyers"
What, exactly, is the group arguing about?
When you add a new class, you gain the class's first level abilities, although any hit points form the die are treated as non-first level (roll for additional level hit points rather than maximum hit points for the die). Automatic maximum hit points is only for the class level taken as Charcater Level 1 (see below).
You would add the class's Fort, Reflex and Will save modifiers to those from your other class.
E.G. Fighter 1 (Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +0)/Cleric 1 (Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +2) gives a final answer, ignoring stats, of Fort +4, Ref +0, Will +2.
You would add any new class skills to the list of class skills you gained form your first class.
E.g. That Fighter/Cleric would add Knowledge (Religion) to his class skills.
You would gain the X + Int Mod skill points/ranks form your new class, and they could be stacked on your old ranks, to a maximum number of ranks equal to Character Level,.
Character Level is the total of all your class levels, so that Fighter 1/Cleric 1 would be Character Level 2.
BABs from all classes stack.
E.G. That Fighter 1/CLeric 1 would still have a BAB of +1, as Cleric 1 has a BAB of +0. On the other hand, a FIghter 1/Ranger 1 would have a BAB of +2, as both classes give a +1 BAB at first level.
Spellcasting abilities, usually,m only come from the levels in the spellcasting class. There are some feats, traits, magic items, and Prestige Classes that can give caster level or spellcasting level bumps, but they are notated when they do. That Fighter 1/Cleric 1 prepares spells and casts spells the same as a Cleric 1 would.
Some class abilities stack from different classes, but they are, usually, explicitly called out. Uncanny Dodge, when gained from Rogue 2 & from Barbarian 4 (IIRC) would give that Rogue 2/Barbarian 4 PC Improved Uncanny Dodge.
Usually, if your classes have restrictions on certain things, those restrictions still exist. A Fighter 1/Wizard 1 would still suffer from arcane spell failure (ASF) chances when casting arcane spells if wearing armor. A Cleric 1/Wizard 1 would still have ASF when casting his arcane spells, but not his divine spells, when wearing armor. However, alignment restrictions on the Cleric's spells would, nominally, only affect the Cleric spells, not the Wizard spells, but your GM may still have the Cleric/Wizard's deity respond to opposite alignment spells being cast.
Not sure if there is something I missed, but follow the leveling up chart in the CRB for the order of events when leveling up.
Since he's going to make you cross sorcerer and wizard anyway, why not ask him if you can just take all of your levels in the new arcanist hybrid class? Arcanists use spell books like a wizard, can spontaneously cast like a sorcerer, and have less spells per day like a wizard. They even have an arcane exploit that gives you a crafting feat for free and a second that allows you to augment weapons with magic. If he really wants you to, you could take the archetype that makes you even more like a wizard by gaining a spell school.
Ultimately, the fact remains that his "preference" is going to make you very less effect in the long run, and ironically enough gave you even more spell slots for your low-level adventures. (Wizard 3 / Sorcerer 1 has the same spell level access as Sorcerer 4 but ultimately has more 1st-level spell slots available to him/her.)
Tell your GM that he could let you use Ultimate Campaign's retraining rules if it really bothered him that much.
Clearly, more than a few of you didn't bother reading through the thread: the game happened, the GM fudged a lot of stuff, there was a TPK. Said game is now, from my reading, completely over. OP is the new GM.
This thread was also necroed from years ago. Which you would have known had you read the time stamps.
Dang, son, put me in my place!
Well done.
This said, and overlooking the thread necromancy (what a lovely expression, first time I've had the occasion to use it, huzzah!), multiclassing seems a lot less relevant in PF than in DD3.5.
Why? I know some folks love to "dip" to grab special class abilities, but on the face of it there are far fewer real reasons to multiclass, since there are so many "hybrid" classes that already combine in cool and mysterious ways.
In DD3.5, nearly all my fighter characters would take their first level in rogue, just for the 4x (8+INT bonus) skill points, and buckets of more skills in class.
I just see fewer and fewer reasons to multiclass at all, with the possible exception of non-spellcasters wanting to cherry-pick class abilities.
