Exotic Weapon Cane


Homebrew and House Rules


I'm interested in adding a new weapon to my campaigns, the cane. Lately I've been looking into the use of a cane in martial arts quite a bit, and I think many of the techniques could be incorporated to Pathfinder.

The basics I would imagine should be comparable to a club, though I was thinking of adding the trip and disarm characteristics (which gives +2 to the manuvers right?). Obviously this would be better than a standard club, but would it be worth spending an exotic weapon feat on it?

To give it a little umph...I want to do something with grapling while using the cane, especially as you can twist the unholy hell out of someone using one. Any ideas on the grapling aspect, or thoughts on the idea in general?

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I would add the trip but not disarm. But I would have the user get a one time +2 circumstance bonus against humanoids to feint in combat because the enemy would not expect it to be a weapon. Before you have attacked with it that is.

As for proficiency, I do not see a problem with it being counted as a martial weapon if it had club stats plus trip. Many of the exotic weapons are not worth being called exotic, some qualify as simple. In my games, profession skills can lower penalties for improvised/nonproficient weapons. For example, for 1st rank and every 3 ranks thereafter, Profession(sailor) reduces penalties for using any common item found on a ship as a weapon: oars, fishing pole(as whip), fishing gaff, etc. Same for Profession (gladiator) and exotic weapons.

As for in grappling, I wouldn't give it any special use.


The pregen stats for Ezren list his cane as a 1d6 club.

Considering that the character who thematicly would use a cane, like aged wizards, have only simple weapons, I think Martial Weapon is the best option.

Two feats to have essentially training in a common object is too stiff a penalty. It doesn't even have a sword in it. ;)


I probably should hunt down some links to youtube videos or something...to emphasise my point.

The weapon I'm talking about is a curved top walking cane (looks like a miniature shepard's hook). Using it to whack people would absolutely fall into it being the smiple weapon club. What I'm going for, is to add to the basic stats of the club in order to make it an exotic weapon. I'm very not cool with fighters and paladins having free access to what I'm talking about here. It really should be an exotic weapon.

Out of curiosity, why not give it the disarm?

As for graple, I was thinking of having it count as a light weapon while the weilder is grappled. That way it would be useful in a graple, but isn't going to make you that much more effective.

Thanks for the input so far guys.


Im reminded of a French maritial art of fighting with canes. It is very fast, almost like fencing.

But, a better idea than object stats, is a feat like Dervish Dance. It will apply only to canes and will allow the user new abilities of some sort with their cane.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Brambleman wrote:
Im reminded of a French maritial art of fighting with canes. It is very fast, almost like fencing.

canne de combat... my gramps used his on my backside often enough to never forget.


Brambleman wrote:
Im reminded of a French maritial art of fighting with canes. It is very fast, almost like fencing.

Speaking as a practitioner of said art (yes, yes, I'm sorry, I'm going to be that guy now) I would make the following suggestions.

Non-lethal only. It's damned difficult to kill someone with such a light weapon. The purpose of the cane is to cause someone significant pain until they either turn and run or leave themselves open to a boxing blow or kick. Anything heavy enough to cause major injury is a club, and would be much thicker than a cane. I don't approve of the Ezren thing. :P

Disarm makes sense to me. A common blow we practice is to the knuckles or fingers of the weapon holding hand. The nice and fragile bones in the hand break easily enough to be able to force an opponent to relinquish his weapon.

It would be useful in a grapple. There are several techniques that allow you to off-balance and trip your opponent.

All in all, it's a control weapon, not a damage dealing weapon. It should tie in nicely with grappling and unarmed strikes to create Pathfinder bartitsu. Lovely.

Grand Lodge

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedGear.html#sword-cane

I wouldn't even call it a martial weapon, it's a club, it just has a little extra style. The sword can is harder to use, it has limited striking surfaces, and is still only a martial weapon. A good example of it's use, both the sword can and regular cane, is the recent Sherlock Holmes movie starring Jude Law and Robert Downey Jr. Neither of those characters have EWP and both of them use a cane in the movie.


Kais86 wrote:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedGear.html#sword-cane

I wouldn't even call it a martial weapon, it's a club, it just has a little extra style. The sword can is harder to use, it has limited striking surfaces, and is still only a martial weapon. A good example of it's use, both the sword can and regular cane, is the recent Sherlock Holmes movie starring Jude Law and Robert Downey Jr. Neither of those characters have EWP and both of them use a cane in the movie.

Well, canonically, Holmes was a practitioner of bartitsu, so he would have trained with the weapon. It's very different in style to a club. The weapons he uses earlier in the film are truncheons, not canes, and would certainly function effectively as a club.

Grand Lodge

H. T. J. Munchkineater wrote:

Well, canonically, Holmes was a practitioner of bartitsu, so he would have trained with the weapon. It's very different in style to a club. The weapons he uses earlier in the film are truncheons, not canes, and would certainly function effectively as a club.

Right, but Watts is just an army guy, he carries a sword cane, and does just fine when it's sheathed.


Kais86 wrote:
Right, but Watts is just an army guy, he carries a sword cane, and does just fine when it's sheathed.

Watson. Fair point, actually, if you can use a fencing sword such as a rapier then you should have no problem using a cane as a striking implement. However, the tripping and disarming and so forth would be so much mystery to you. I would suggest making a weapon specific feat that allows you to trip, grapple and disarm with a cane.


Just do it as martial/exotic.

Without specific cane training, allow it to function as a shortsword that deals bludgeoning damage, but if a person takes Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Cane] they can use it to do trip and/or disarm moves. Also might do to have it break more easily than a sword or have a weakness against sundering.

This interpretation is based on how bastardsword is handled as a two-handed or one-handed sword based on the level of training.

Grand Lodge

H. T. J. Munchkineater wrote:
Watson.

Dangit, I liked Watson to. I suppose I should have posted that when I was a bit more awake.

I'm pretty sure no one would complain if you just put the trip quality on it, especially if you paid a lot more money for it, also just simply having the improved trip/disarm/grapple feats would cover that.


Wolf Munroe wrote:

Just do it as martial/exotic.

Without specific cane training, allow it to function as a shortsword that deals bludgeoning damage, but if a person takes Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Cane] they can use it to do trip and/or disarm moves. Also might do to have it break more easily than a sword or have a weakness against sundering.

This interpretation is based on how bastardsword is handled as a two-handed or one-handed sword based on the level of training.

This is along the lines of what I'm talking about. You can crack someone in the face with it like a club, but if you have exotic weapon prof in it you can use the hook to dissarm and trip and arm bar and all that.

What I'm talking about it somewhere between bartitsu and I believe hapkido...From what I've seen bartitsu uses the straighter canes more often, and when they do use the hooked canes they don't make use of the hook (again, just from what I've seen...still pretty new to bartitsu).

Also, as a reference question...what would people consider escrimia sticks? To be they would be a club. Maybe call them a master work club, as there is some manufacturing to them...where the base club in the rule book is just a branch...


Fraust wrote:
so, as a reference question...what would people consider escrimia sticks? To be they would be a club. Maybe call them a master work club, as there is some manufacturing to them...where the base club in the rule book is just a branch...

Eskrima Sticks are a club. A club is not just a branch, it has been manufactured for use as a weapon, like a police truncheon. A branch would be an improvised club.


Problem with that is a club is free (if memory serves). So there really isn't any manufacturing there.


Brambleman wrote:
Fraust wrote:
so, as a reference question...what would people consider escrimia sticks? To be they would be a club. Maybe call them a master work club, as there is some manufacturing to them...where the base club in the rule book is just a branch...
Eskrima Sticks are a club. A club is not just a branch, it has been manufactured for use as a weapon, like a police truncheon. A branch would be an improvised club.

Or the police truncheon would be a masterwork club and a standard club would be your tree branch or two-by-four. The cops around here carry some beautiful beat-sticks, all finished wood with the grain lined correctly so it doesn't split and a perfect leather grip, etc, which is why it costs gold. All your standard club requires is snapping off any branching twigs, shaving off some bark, wrapping a grip with spare cloth, maybe pounding a nail through it, etc, which is why they're free.


Fraust wrote:
From what I've seen bartitsu uses the straighter canes more often, and when they do use the hooked canes they don't make use of the hook (again, just from what I've seen...still pretty new to bartitsu).

There are techniques to use the hook, but they're not often used. Tripping and grappling techniques generally use it two hand, catching the opponent behind the knee or ankle and pulling their leg from under them by leverage. Trying to do it one handed would most likely end up pulling the cane from your hands.


I'm relieved to discover they make use of the hook at least somewhat. Out of curiosity, do you have any suggestions for someone wanting to get into bartitsu? I know there's a book out there about it, but haven't been able to get ahold of a copy...and I live in the arm pit of the rectum of the United States...so there is no chance of a school anywhere near here (I've looked...though on the off chance you know of one not on the net, wyoming would be said arm pit).


Fraust wrote:
I'm relieved to discover they make use of the hook at least somewhat. Out of curiosity, do you have any suggestions for someone wanting to get into bartitsu? I know there's a book out there about it, but haven't been able to get ahold of a copy...and I live in the arm pit of the rectum of the United States...so there is no chance of a school anywhere near here (I've looked...though on the off chance you know of one not on the net, wyoming would be said arm pit).

I live in the UK, so I'm not familiar with the bartitsu scene in the US, if there is one. This link will take you to the list of online manuals used by the school at which I train. It's not complete, as some are old physical copies owned by the schools master, but there's enough there to get started. Best to start off by with Defense dans la Rue or Barton-Wright's own texts. If you looking at self teaching, here's my advice:

1) Try to get some friends to train with. You'll be able to watch each other and point out where you are going wrong, which you might not catch by yourself. But for the love of god, don't spar without the proper protective gear! That's fencing mask and jacket for cane, and light boxing gloves and mask for boxing. Shinpads are also advisable for kicks. Oh, and never at full strength!

2) Try and find a local jujitsu class. This will both give you physical training and teach you the correct throwing techniques for bartitsu. Ignore all the punching a kicking they may teach, though, as it's less than ideal for a bartitsu practitioner.

Grand Lodge

If you are going to spend the money to take a self-defense course, don't ignore any of it, that's just wasting money, plus the more moves you know the better martial artist/combatant you will be. It's really not that hard to learn multiple styles.


Kais86 wrote:
If you are going to spend the money to take a self-defense course, don't ignore any of it, that's just wasting money, plus the more moves you know the better martial artist/combatant you will be. It's really not that hard to learn multiple styles.

Perhaps I misrepresented myself. I mean more that in order to practice bartitsu you should utilise traditional English boxing rather than the strikes taught by jujitsu.

Which, in my opinion, is rubbish. :P

I wouldn't necessarily agree that learning multiple different striking styles will necessarily make you a better martial artist. I've done four different martial arts in my time, and the best martial artists I've known have almost always studied just the one style. Horses for courses in all regards, I suppose.


HTJ...thank you. That's quite a lot of info you gave me there, much appreciated.

I think jujitsu is one of the arts taught by the guys around here...I know one of them does a lot with escrima sticks, and the other seemed to know quite aa bit about ground work and locks.

Ultimately, yeah, I think it's best not to pass up anything you're likely to learn in a martial arts class...but I can understand why you would want to block out some things if you're looking to understand something specific.

On a more Pathfindery note...was anyone else completely underwhelmed by the sword cane in the APG? I was going to take an Idea I got off Pendergast in another thread, and write up a magus who looks more like a traditional wizard, to get the party fighters to try and get in close for a nice supprise...and figured I'd use the sword cane to represent a "magic rod/wand"...until I saw it's stats...as a weapon it's absolutely horrible, and as far as it's "special ability" goes, a DC 20 spot check isn't that impressive, especially at anything beyond the lowest of levels. Think I'm going to delve into some of my 3.? books, much as I'd rather not.

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