
mdt |

Any ideas?
I'd take DieHard for the Eidelon, as that makes the class ability to dump summoner hp into it useful, otherwise it's useless.
I do like the idea of him being more a scout than anything else, it's a breath of fresh air compared to the 10 armed tentacle monsters I usually see no here.

mdt |

It looks like it would be edurance for his first feat, followed by diehard...I had not thought of that route!
I think the small E. is an overlooked possibility......
Plus the RP aspect making the fox, a wise advisor to the summoner....
LOL, yeah, you'd need endurance first. Unfortunately, the class ability is useless without this route. It's a tax feat to use a class ability.
I wish they had a mental version of the Eidelon, one that increased Int/Wis instead of Str/Dex.

thepuregamer |
I am not sure but I think you cannot take improved natural armor evolution until lvl 5. doesn't it say you can only take it once for every 5 lvls.
Also if you go as far as endurance and die hard, it is worthwhile to pick up fast healer.
It sounds cool rp wise but I wish they had made a reverse large evolution such as small or tiny that boosted dex and a mental stat while reducing str and na.
I just can't see going small being viable later on. Though atleast the stat boosting evolution cost doesn't go up for you.

mdt |

I am not sure but I think you cannot take improved natural armor evolution until lvl 5. doesn't it say you can only take it once for every 5 lvls.
Also if you go as far as endurance and die hard, it is worthwhile to pick up fast healer.
It sounds cool rp wise but I wish they had made a reverse large evolution such as small or tiny that boosted dex and a mental stat while reducing str and na.
I just can't see going small being viable later on. Though atleast the stat boosting evolution cost doesn't go up for you.
It says you can take it once per 5 levels. Not once per full 5 levels.
It's murky (what else is new about something on the Summoner being a murky mess). It's either :
1, 6, 11, 16
or
5, 10, 15, 20
Depending on how you interpret it. Either way, you get up to 4 times at 20.
As to being viable, it depends on the game itself. You can do a concept summoner, but only if the game is not min/maxed over optimized. If you're in a game where the Fighter has to have an AC 35 at level 10 just to keep from dieing, then no, you can't. If he needs a 28 to 30 to be viable, you can.

thepuregamer |
It says you can take it once per 5 levels. Not once per full 5 levels.
It's murky (what else is new about something on the Summoner being a murky mess). It's either :
1, 6, 11, 16
or
5, 10, 15, 20Depending on how you interpret it. Either way, you get up to 4 times at 20.
As to being viable, it depends on the game itself. You can do a concept summoner, but only if the game is not min/maxed over optimized. If you're in a game where the Fighter has to have an AC 35 at level 10 just to keep from dieing, then no, you can't. If he needs a 28 to 30 to be viable, you can.
oooh I like 1,6,11,16.
btw, I have found 1 semi viable way to do a non str based eidolon. flame blade(lots of flame blade)...
;) and maybe some elemental substitution when fire does not work.

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It says you can take it once per 5 levels. Not once per full 5 levels.
It's murky (what else is new about something on the Summoner being a murky mess). It's either :
1, 6, 11, 16
or
5, 10, 15, 20
I think I saw an official answer to that in another thread and it was:
1, 10, 15, 20Very odd.

Nebulous_Mistress |

mdt wrote:It says you can take it once per 5 levels. Not once per full 5 levels.
It's murky (what else is new about something on the Summoner being a murky mess). It's either :
1, 6, 11, 16
or
5, 10, 15, 20I think I saw an official answer to that in another thread and it was:
1, 10, 15, 20Very odd.
Were it my game I'd go for 1, 6, 11, 16. Never had a game go to 20th level, never had anything hit their capstone ability. As such I'm all for PCs getting cool abilities earlier than 20th.

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Ah, I was the one that wrote that up. The small eidolon is viable as long as you don't expect it to be a superstar.
1st: Small, Dodge, Skilled Perception, Skilled Acrobatics, Imp Nat Armor
2nd: Small, Dodge, Skilled Perception, Skilled Acrobatics, Imp Nat Armor, Claws
3rd: Small, Dodge + Precise Strike, Skilled Perception, Skilled Acrobatics, Imp Nat Armor, Claws, Pounce
4th: Small, Dodge + Precise Strike, Skilled Perception, Skilled Acrobatics, Imp Nat Armor, Claws, Pounce, Imp Dam Claws
5th: Small, Dodge + Precise Strike, Skilled Perception, Skilled Acrobatics, Imp Nat Armor, Claws, Winged Flight, Energy Attacks
By 5th level,
AC = 28 = 10 + 8 NatArmor + 4 Dex + 1 Size + 1 Dodge + 4 Mage Armor
Attacks = bite +6, d4 +1str + d6 precise + d6 energy; claw +6, d3 + 1str + d6 precise + d6 energy, claw +6, d3 + 1str + d6 precise + d6 energy
If you are staying small throughout his career, switch Dodge with Weapon Finesse. Lose 1 AC and gain +3 to attacks. At that point, he is roughly keeping up with a druid's ape companion on damage, but can speak, spot, fly, flank and tank far better than the ape. And he can look like a cute psuedodragon while doing it too. At later levels, you add an Amulet of Mighty Fists +0, Flaming and it adds in another 3d6 of damage possible per round. It is also "table friendly" because it doesn't have more attacks than a cat or ape, and doesn't look overpowering. It can enter a town and bar without getting you thown out or attacked. If you are creative, you can impersonate other classes in front of town folk. Wizard and pseudodragon are easy. I have one going right now that plays at being a ranger and cat. Another does the barbarian look with his battle llama as a pack mule.
Precise timing is key with this critter in battle. But, because of it's special nature, it can pull it off easily. On your turn, if both of you are in range to approach and attack a creature, the eidolon moves first, using acrobatics to move through threatened squares without drawing the AoO, and moves into would be flank. Then the eidolon readies to attack when the master is in flanking position as well. The master then moves into his flanking position. The ready goes off for one attack by the eidolon. The master's attack then goes off. Next round, four attacks decimate the creature, finishing it off.
And yes, the summoner takes Precise Strike as his third level feat. It is required for both flankers to have it, but the summoner doesn't have the requisite BAB+1 at first level. In the two round example above, the feat taken by both is worth a combine 6d6 of damage.
When you are not spending evolution points on large/huge, you get to spend them on defense. Immunities and Spell Resistance go along way.
At 20th level, AC = 48 = 10 + 2 Nat Armor base + 16 table Nat Armor + 8 Imp Nat Armor evolutions + 7 Dex + 1 size + 4 Mage Armor
Not bad. And Dex being bumped by evolutions would make the AC and Weapon Finesse to hits better at the same time.
Half-orc: Nice choice. You don't need light to do your flanking routine. And the half-orc can stay standing a little longer below zero hit points, meaning the eidolon gets one more round to do something before it checks out.
The explanation on Imp Nat Armor from Joshua, the guy running PFS then, was 1, 10, 15 and 20 here

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I see how the doubling up on percise strike really helps with this build....
still not sure about feat #1....
If its dex is always going to be higher than its strength, Weapon Finesse is a good first feat.
If you are maxing out AC the best you can, Dodge is a good first feat.If you want survivability, Toughness is a good first feat.
If you want a body guard, Combat Reflexes is a good first feat.
The feats are one of the few design considerations of the eidolon that doesn't get rewritten every level. So, their choice can dictate the career of the eidolon more than evolutions or even base form. Only one of the feats listed above gets marginalized if you switch into a standard large beast later on.
Then again, you can go for the strange. One of my eidolons is going to be taking the Master Craftsman feat, Craft Arms and Armor, and then Cooperative Crafting and combining it with the Skilled(Craft) evolution. To top it off, Craft is a class skill for an eidolon. Do you want your sword crafted by a measly elf, or do you want an ancient soul that has wandered the planes for a millennium to forge your `epic' blade. His goods might even sell at a premium based upon reputation alone. Let's see a tiger top that. ;-)

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Grusk wrote:I see how the doubling up on percise strike really helps with this build....
still not sure about feat #1....
If its dex is always going to be higher than its strength, Weapon Finesse is a good first feat.
If you are maxing out AC the best you can, Dodge is a good first feat.
If you want survivability, Toughness is a good first feat.
If you want a body guard, Combat Reflexes is a good first feat.
The feats are one of the few design considerations of the eidolon that doesn't get rewritten every level. So, their choice can dictate the career of the eidolon more than evolutions or even base form. Only one of the feats listed above gets marginalized if you switch into a standard large beast later on.Then again, you can go for the strange. One of my eidolons is going to be taking the Master Craftsman feat, Craft Arms and Armor, and then Cooperative Crafting and combining it with the Skilled(Craft) evolution. To top it off, Craft is a class skill for an eidolon. Do you want your sword crafted by a measly elf, or do you want an ancient soul that has wandered the planes for a millennium to forge your `epic' blade. His goods might even sell at a premium based upon reputation alone. Let's see a tiger top that. ;-)
Why are you so awesome??

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Why are you so awesome??
Salesmanship and BS. He puts the `exotic' in exotic craftsman. Actually, the eidolon that maxes out intelligence and uses a couple skilled evolutions can generate craft and spellcraft scores one better than a mage in the 12th-20th level range. Now the eidolon cannot do wands or staffs, but that is only because he "chose to specialize" in weapons and wondrous items.
The summoner that uses the Aspects to grab the Skilled evolutions can significantly exceed the craft and spellcraft scores of an equivalent wizard. That +8 bonus is huge. When the two use cooperative crafting together, they can have a good lead on the competition. Got something tricky to make without cursing it, this guy has a better chance to pull it off.
Yeah, should only be done as an NPC, but sometimes you have to be strange.

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Ah, I was the one that wrote that up. The small eidolon is viable as long as you don't expect it to be a superstar.
1st: Small, Dodge, Skilled Perception, Skilled Acrobatics, Imp Nat Armor
2nd: Small, Dodge, Skilled Perception, Skilled Acrobatics, Imp Nat Armor, Claws
3rd: Small, Dodge + Precise Strike, Skilled Perception, Skilled Acrobatics, Imp Nat Armor, Claws, Pounce
4th: Small, Dodge + Precise Strike, Skilled Perception, Skilled Acrobatics, Imp Nat Armor, Claws, Pounce, Imp Dam Claws
5th: Small, Dodge + Precise Strike, Skilled Perception, Skilled Acrobatics, Imp Nat Armor, Claws, Winged Flight, Energy AttacksBy 5th level,
AC = 28 = 10 + 8 NatArmor + 4 Dex + 1 Size + 1 Dodge + 4 Mage Armor
Attacks = bite +6, d4 +1str + d6 precise + d6 energy; claw +6, d3 + 1str + d6 precise + d6 energy, claw +6, d3 + 1str + d6 precise + d6 energy
If you are staying small throughout his career, switch Dodge with Weapon Finesse. Lose 1 AC and gain +3 to attacks. At that point, he is roughly keeping up with a druid's ape companion on damage, but can speak, spot, fly, flank and tank far better than the ape. And he can look like a cute psuedodragon while doing it too. At later levels, you add an Amulet of Mighty Fists +0, Flaming and it adds in another 3d6 of damage possible per round. It is also "table friendly" because it doesn't have more attacks than a cat or ape, and doesn't look overpowering. It can enter a town and bar without getting you thown out or attacked. If you are creative, you can impersonate other classes in front of town folk. Wizard and pseudodragon are easy. I have one going right now that plays at being a ranger and cat. Another does the barbarian look with his battle llama as a pack mule.Precise timing is key with this critter in battle. But, because of it's special nature, it can pull it off easily. On your turn, if both of you are in range to approach and attack a creature, the eidolon moves first, using acrobatics to move through threatened squares without drawing the...
Elyza,
I love this eidolon...I would have him be a med, not small, but totally confunsed on what to do with the summoner. I was thinking something with high Dex (to have acrobatics and AC)and Cha, human (so I can have feats to make this work), but I am struggling to figure it out. I hope you can help.
Thanks,
Balsa

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Ok. Grusk's question first. My characters are too weird to post. Three out of four of my summoners are multi-classed. Yep, the ultimate sin for the class, but I am trying it anyways. Two of them are PFS characters. The bard/summoner merfork with an eidolon that is viable above and below the waterline is going to interesting, but not a powerhouse in any sense of the word.
The small eidolon style goes for high AC, staking several different damage types onto its attacks, and a good share of defensive evolutions. When you consider that the huge evolution costs the same as Immunity(Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid and Sonic) combined you get a critter that can survive alot. Spend a feat or two to bolster saving throws. Toss in Damage Reduction and Spell Resistance at later levels, and it is a serious tank that stands at ground zero, trying to draw everyone's attacks. Every attack on an ultimately unkillable creature is one less attack on you and the party. If and when the eidolon falls, send in SLA summon monsters. There are a lot of good backups there. Air and earth elementals are some of my favorites. The eidolon will be back tomorrow with a hang over. It isn't like you have to pay for a raise dead on him.
Balsa's question: If you have a flanking, high AC eidolon, you make the summoner melee oriented.
A) High strength, just enough charisma to meet spell casting requirements, and swing an heirloom greatsword. The summoner takes Precise Strike as his third level feat. Dirty Fighter is nice as the second trait, because it is +1 damage on every flank attack, which is what you are always aiming for.
B) Or, High Dex summoner, minimum charisma to meet spell casting requirements, Weapon Finesse(1st), Two Weapon Fighting(human) and Precise Strike(3rd). Dirty Fighter and Focused Mind (for concentration) for traits. Swing two light maces. -2/-2 to hit is countered by the +2 for flanking. The damage is 4d6+2+strength+magic. Not fighter level damage, but not too shabby at third level.
The 'small' is a "what if?" that turned into +2AC. Small or medium both work for the advise in this thread that I have given.
The summoner has few skill points. Let the eidolon do the Acrobatics routine as well as the high perception work. Everything he sees is only a thought away for the summoner. If the summoner is focusing on skills the eidolon isn't, combined, they are spending 6 skill points a level for a more well rounded team.

mdt |

too wierd to post?
I like the bard summoner
small Eidolonmy mental picture is a little guy with a flute with a serpentine E, in a whicker basket who pops up as the flute is played
the "snake charmer summoner/bard"
Don't forget the guy bard with a grind box and a purple monkey doing tricks. :)

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The bard/summoner is actually a 14 year old mermaid (with the young template to make her small sized) riding a serpentine eidolon in the shape of a baby elasmosaurus (medium size) with a constrictive kangaroo pouch on its back. The mermaid sticks her tail in the pouch and uses a riding harness to steady herself while riding the eidolon.
Mermaid s9 d22 c10 i12 w8 c16
Feats: Mounted Combat
Traits: Heirloom Weapon Speargun (lt crossbow) and Rich Parents
Weapons: Long Spear, Heirloom Speargun, dagger
Eidolon: Serpentine, Gills, Swim, and Mount evolutions. It is able to swim in the ocean, or walk on walrus like flippers at 20' on land.
Both have 10' reach, and she is starting at +9 to hit with that speargun. While using the spear, if she makes a +10 ride check vs an attacker's to hit, she negates one attack a round on the eidolon. So, not useless in combat. Personality: unafraid, because she has never faced real danger before. She is still a concept that is not in play yet, but could be fun. The world allows merfolk, but no one has tried it yet as all the adventures so far have been on dry land.
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His mother calls him Carlos. His father insists he sign all documents C. Annon Fadre'. He has never figured out the connection as to why.
Chelaxian summoner pathfinder in PFS. Currently Transmuter 1/Summoner 2.
Human: s17->18 d14 c15 i12 w7 c13
Feats: Additional Traits, Spell Focus(Conjuration)[replaces wizard's scribe scroll], Augment Summoning, Precise Strike
Traits: Heirloom Weapon (Greatsword), Fiendish Presence, Dirty Fighter, Diabolic Dabbler
Uses his transmuter ability to boost his strength to 18 each day.
Tries to use every dirty trick he can, from his non-proficient boot blade, daggers hidden in spring loaded wrist sheaths, to a telekinetic fist when someone is not looking. Uses a mage armor wand, and dresses like a bare chested barbarian, complete with a bear skin cloak and horned viking style helmet. The SLA summons are +4 STR, +4 CON and +1hp/HD when he has to fall back to using them. His career is turning out better than his dad expected.
Ediolon: Pakuna ~ Battle Llama ~ level 2 ~ flanker ~ pretends to be a pack mule when it suits his mood
Quadruped Skilled(Acrobatics), Claws, Reach(bite), Imp Nat Armor
Acrobatics +15
Arrogant enough to bully his way into the opera for one adventure