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Hey all,
Per the subject, I am working on a character for the Serpent's Skull AP, we are starting at level 7. This is my (and the group's) first Pathfinder game, but we played 3.x to death.
My DM allows us to change our characters as much as we want after the first game (only) - the thought being that stuff can look good on paper but not actually be fun or you can discover cool stuff by accident.
I agreed to take the explorer role but I was disappointed with my pure Rogue - with a Summoner / Shadowdancer 2 (just enough to get HiPS), a crafting and magic item-loaded Mystic Theurge, an Oracle, and a Pegasus-riding Paladin I felt pretty outclassed.
I am the only one in the group with no casting, this seems to be a big issue, so I was heading towards Bard a bit. Any suggestions for a decently-optimized Bard? I was thinking teh Archivist (magic trap detection is good).
Any suggestions? I had great fun with being a Half Orc with the Scent feat. Very handy in the jungle, especially with a DM that LOVES ambushes. ;)
With all the wilderness exploration in this path you should switch to a Ranger instead of a Rogue. Maybe taking a 2 level dip in Rogue to get the trap spotter talent. The Ranger is a solid and versatile class. It can match the Rogue's ability to sneak and adds some solid combat abilities. Your party seems to lack raw fighting power and a switch hitter Ranger would work very well. While the ranger is not a full caster a lot of its spell will be very useful in a wilderness setting.
A Half Orc Ranger with scent will be next to impossible to surprise particularly by his favored enemy in his favored terrain.
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With all the wilderness exploration in this path you should switch to a Ranger instead of a Rogue. Maybe taking a 2 level dip in Rogue to get the trap spotter talent. The Ranger is a solid and versatile class. It can match the Rogue's ability to sneak and adds some solid combat abilities. Your party seems to lack raw fighting power and a switch hitter Ranger would work very well. While the ranger is not a full caster a lot of its spell will be very useful in a wilderness setting.
A Half Orc Ranger with scent will be next to impossible to surprise particularly by his favored enemy in his favored terrain.
Sorry, in all of ramble above I forgot to mention that we already have a Ranger. It's just that our Ranger's player is really not super-engaged (and thus not taking a scouting role) and also is a Ranger / Rogue designed around archery sniping, with not as much utility usage.
So I do feel a certain reluctance to play the second one of something we already have - we've got an Alchemist, a Ranger, a Summoner, a Mystic Theurge, and an Oracle... seems like there are a lot of classes left to play without duplicating, just kind of a quirk of mine.
With all the wilderness exploration in this path you should switch to a Ranger instead of a Rogue. Maybe taking a 2 level dip in Rogue to get the trap spotter talent. The Ranger is a solid and versatile class. It can match the Rogue's ability to sneak and adds some solid combat abilities. Your party seems to lack raw fighting power and a switch hitter Ranger would work very well. While the ranger is not a full caster a lot of its spell will be very useful in a wilderness setting.
A Half Orc Ranger with scent will be next to impossible to surprise particularly by his favored enemy in his favored terrain.
Sorry, in all of ramble above I forgot to mention that we already have a Ranger. It's just that our Ranger's player is really not super-engaged (and thus not taking a scouting role) and also is a Ranger / Rogue designed around archery sniping, with not as much utility usage.
So I do feel a certain reluctance to play the second one of something we already have - we've got an Alchemist, a Ranger, a Summoner, a Mystic Theurge, and an Oracle... seems like there are a lot of classes left to play without duplicating, just kind of a quirk of mine.
If he not really playing the ranger in a rangery way it is not like you are stepping on his toes. I have always thought it was the way you played you character, not the class itself that determined if you are trying to fill the same shoes as someone else.
Example:
Rogue-uses high stealth to scout up front
Range-uses high stealth to scout up front
Ranger-Focuses on TWF to do damage.
Fighter-Focuses on TWF to do damage.
Now in both cases the 2nd player might be annoying the first player because they are doing the same thing
Another example
Ranger-Only cares about fighting(TWF), knowledge(nature), and survival checks
Rangier-Archery focus ranger who focuses on urban areas and dungeons, and has forgone the use of an animal companion.
In this example nobody would really know the 2nd guy is a ranger except through metagaming.
I am currently playing an arcane trickster in a campaign right now, we are 12 currently but tricksters are the stuff. spells scouting, tons of skill points if built intelligence heavy. Anyway rogue/wizard is how I like it, also been toying around with rogue witch, to throw a little healing in.
If you already have a Ranger then let him do the scouting. Scouting is one of the primary functions of a Ranger. They actually do it better than a Rogue. The biggest problem with the rogue is weak combat ability. When you are far enough ahead of the party to scout you need to be able to take care of yourself.
That being said I would suggest a Druid. Again keeping in mind the adventure path and its focus on wilderness. The Druid is probably one of the most versatile classes around. He can be anything from an melee monster to a full caster, or anything in between. The only thing that may be a problem is if the group was counting on you to deal with traps. Although SNA can work to set off traps.
Another good option that was mentioned was the Arcane Trickster. The key to making this class work is not battlefield control, but rather blasting and utility. Adding SA to spells will up the damage that it becomes viable. The build takes a while to mature, but once there it works fairly well. Other than blasting spells you will also want spells to help your rogue abilities. There have been some arguments on the boards about which is better an invisible Wizard or a sneaking Rogue. I suggest that an invisible, sneaking Arcane Trickster is better than both.
I also agree that the class is not as important as the build.
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Hey all,
Will look through responses in detail later. I will check out the Urban Ranger, too.
Just to be clear, I actually enjoyed my character, it was just that I was getting one hit in before the casters were dropping crowd kill spells on everything, plus I was really good at acrobatics and climbing, but everyone else is flying... you know how that is, right? ;)
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Hey all,
Will look through responses in detail later. I will check out the Urban Ranger, too.
Just to be clear, I actually enjoyed my character, it was just that I was getting one hit in before the casters were dropping crowd kill spells on everything, plus I was really good at acrobatics and climbing, but everyone else is flying... you know how that is, right? ;)
It sounds to me like your team has a bigger issue with team tactics than with the lack of a true scout. The ranger has to have a great stealth skill in order to be a sniper and the alchemist gets disable device, so the only reason for you to be forced to play a rogue is for magical traps with a DC over 25. At this point it's nit-picky.
On the other hand, why are you the only one not flying? If all those casters can't afford to use some of those spells on you so that you can fly as well then they don't deserve your scouting skills anyway (nor do they need them since they won't run into any traps way up in the air).
If you'd really like to feel useless you could just talk to your DM. One day of multiple random encounters and all those casters are out of spells and gasping for breath. This allows you to show off your melee skills (provided one of those casters is at least nice enough to summon a flank post for you) and save the party (or stealth away and let them get eaten, forcing them to make new characters anyway).
May seems strange, but a Druid with a one or two level dip in rogue could be nice. (The second level is a though choice - delay your spellcasting and druid abilities, but - well, evasion is that good, and a trick is also nice...)
You get Trapfinding. As a druid, you have an animal companion, or easy access to a summon - meaning you'll almost always be able to flank, almost always getting a free d6 sneak attack dammage. Not bad really. Also nice with Etangle.
Produce flame - you can now sneak attack with that spell... ok... nothing fantastic, but still, a d6 is a d6, on a low level spell.
You get lots of skills. Including UMD. Very nice. You can now use arcane wands and scrolls (and you have read magic, so it's easier for you than for a Rogue)
+2 to reflex saves is also a good thing for a Druid.
Druids spells are fantastic for scouting - and you'll be able to get in and out of everywhere with warp wood, stone shape and etc.
Not a bad deal, if you ask me.
INT 07 (-4 pts)
The heck? Who's trying to play a Rogue with only an INT of 7? You're taking an enormous penalty to skill ranks per level, something the Rogue is the best in the class for.
"Yes, Mr. Smith, this is our explosives expert Bob 'Stumpy' McMasters. Mr. McMasters has had a few accidents in the past, but he has dedicated his life to the craft, so we don't expect any problems with your next mission!"
Just because Perception is WIS and Disable Device is DEX doesn't mean you can dump the INT.
If you're at 7th level, I'd suggest an arcane trickster. You'd have your first level in the prestige class, so the 3rog/3wiz thing is behind you, and you're at the point where you would start to contribute nicely.
Max out int, followed by dex. Even with a lower number of base skill points than a rogue, a high int will compensate for that. They're excellent with traps, and have the sneak attack thing, wizard spells, and ranged legerdemain, which is a nice boon for a trap disabler. As suggested before, you can focus on magic to help w/ scouting, and get an occasional sneak attack blast in there for fun.
Talk to your GM and ask if you can have a)the rogue's medium BAB, and b)the Street Mage feat from indeFEATable. You can download it here for $1.25. The class, as it stands, is pretty weak. I'd lobby for 6 skill points/level, too, and maybe some rogue talents/metamagic feats.
Whatever you decide, I agree with the previous poster that you don't want to dump int for a rogue character. I'd try for at least a 12 int, points permitting, not less than a 10. Skills matter! A rogue can never have enough.
What skills do you want for this finesse based combat rogue? And where should you pay the 4 points to raise the INT to a mere 10? Or were you imaging higher?
15 point buy is difficult but not impossible. STR is your dump stat, I'd try to keep everything at least at 9 but INT should be 10. Craft (traps) if nothing else for the INT, with Disable Device, UMD, Perception, etc being non-INT. Or I would balance the stats on the "edge" - 9 or 13 - so a single +1 Wondrous Item can tip them over.
Maybe that's why so many Rogues are halflings or gnomes, people don't expect them to be strong.
My advice is to take a look at the player guid for the adventure path: http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/p/pathfinderRPG/paizo/pathfin derAdventurePath/serpentsSkull/v5748btpy8g6d
that way you will get som spoiler free insigth into what favorit enemy og class abt will be usefull for your pc.