Racial Archetypes of the known character classes

[Courrain]

Will Paizo ever design Racial Archetypes of the known character classes? A friend of mine and I have been wondering what might be needed to help distinguish an elven fighter from a human fighter or a dwarf fighter aside from a couple of racially specific feats. As the only time race comes into play is at first level when a particular race's racial traits are brought up during the character creation process. After that, those same traits become static and don't become better over time.

Just today, I went back to my Races books (Races of Destiny, Races of the Wild, etc.) and looked at the racial substitution levels presented in each book. And while each racial substitution level example only involved just three out of the twenty character class levels, I couldn't help but wonder what these examples might have looked like if they were expanded to twenty levels. This lead me to wondering what kind of archetypes one could come up with regards to race and character class.

So what kind and how racial archetypes could we get for an elf or a dwarf in Pathfinder? Inquiring minds want to know. ;)

Thoughts?

[Kierato]

I am not sure what you are asking for as far as "racial archtypes" but on another thread, "racial progression", I brought up the use of Unearthed arcana bloodlines to allow your race to continue advancing.

[Midnightoker]

Some of the new RPG Superstar Archetypes are exactly what you describe, like the Tengu Fighter for example.

[Courrain]

Midnightoker wrote:

Some of the new RPG Superstar Archetypes are exactly what you describe, like the Tengu Fighter for example.

Thanks for the tip. I actually checked out the Tengu Blademaster archetype and found it to be exactly what I wanted. A race-specific archetype of the fighter class. It's too bad though that the RPG Superstar judges felt it was too focused on a specific niche, namely one that benefited the Tengus only. I am not sure why this is entirely a bad thing though. A Dwarf being taught in the ways of the Fighter in a Dwarven community is going to learn his class differently than a human learning the same class. Same class, two different niches.

However, this approach would most certainly led to bloat. :-p Perhaps Pathfinder should create something similar to the Races books from D&D? ;)

[Knight who says Neek!]

Perhaps Pathfinder should create something similar to the Races books from D&D?

Give'em time...they had to put Archetypes out there first, see how well the APG did, etc...

So let's give them some ideas.

Here's a quick and easy one=
Turn Arcane Archer--Elves and half elves--into a 20 level class using a Ranger Archetype=
*only use light armor, but can cast with it. No shields,simple
*must take Archery combat style
*Spells per day the same, but now they are arcane spells from the wizard list, are prepared like wizard spells and are based on Int instead of wis like a wizard. THey must choose two schools and can only cast from those two schools and cannot cast from any other school.
*Lose wild empathy and nature sense, gain Cantrips (as wizard), and the Magical Aptitude feat...also add Use Magic Item as a Class skill.
*Replace Hunter's bond with Imbue Spell
*Replace Terrain Master with Enchant Arrow.

[Foghammer]

I understand exactly what you're looking for. There were racial substitution levels in the "Races of [x]" books, like the Warforged Paladin or Shifter Druid in "Races of Eberron." I am sure you mean something like this.

I can see why someone might want something like that, but in all honesty, I don't see why one couldn't reflavor the archetypes in the APG and future expansions to fit a certain racial theme. Maybe elves favor the Free Hand Fighter archetype, and dwarves favor the Shielded Fighter, while orcs prefer the Two Handed Fighter.

Really, fighters are about the only class whose archetype I see having "racial" variants, but none of them 'need' them. Every other class would function differently on a case by case basis (cutpurse rogue and rake rogue come from the same human/elf/dwarf settlement), resulting in just a class archetype. That's how I see it anyway.

Not to rain on your parade, but I hope that Paizo *doesn't* do this, as it leans the game towards power creep ("this race needs to go this route or it's sub-optimal").

[Set]

Foghammer wrote:

Not to rain on your parade, but I hope that Paizo *doesn't* do this, as it leans the game towards power creep ("this race needs to go this route or it's sub-optimal").

One part of me is excited by the thought of halfling rogues who specialize in sling and thrown weapon attacks, elven fighters who focus on lightly armored finesse weapon mobility and precision damage, dwarven battle-clerics who 'anchor' themselves to the ground spiritually and become a stable bastion of faith for their allies, and gnomish sorcerers who 'specialize' in illusion magics, while the other part of me leans the same direction as Foghammer.

There are already posts cropping up suggesting that everyone who plays an evoker plays a half-orc for the Favored Class bonus to fire damage or whatever, and that sort of thing bugs me, because it takes what should be an expansion of the game, and turns it into a straightjacket, as players feel like they have to play Race X to make Class Y 'work'.

The biggest freshest awesomest thing 3rd edition did, IMO, was allowing any race to be any class. While I liked Substitution levels, there was a part of me that thought, 'Wow, if I play an elven Wizard, I end up with 50% more spells in my book for free...'

[Hippygriff]

Courrain wrote:

A Dwarf being taught in the ways of the Fighter in a Dwarven community is going to learn his class differently than a human learning the same class.

While this is true, a dwarf from the Lands of the Linnorm Kings is going to get different training than a dwarf from Osirion. A half-orc from Belkzen won't fight like a half-orc from Nidal.

Not saying you shouldn't house rule something for it but I hope Paizo doesn't go that route.