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I bought the Legendary Races: Wyrmtouched PDF yesterday afternoon, and I found the concept behind the race to be fairly interesting. If two Draconic-Blooded sorcerers could give birth to a Wyrmtouched, then quite a number of races could arise in much the same way from the other Sorcerous Bloodlines in Pathfinder. This could include versions of the Aasimar (Celestial Bloodline), the Tiefling (the various fiendish bloodlines, the Fetchling (Shadow Bloodline) and the Genie-kin (Djinn, Efreet, Shaitan and Marid Bloodlines). I think something other than the Genie-kin would arise from the Elemental Bloodline.

So any chance that the next Legendary Race would be like the Wyrmtouched but come from a different Sorcerous Bloodline? *curious* My vote is for something that blurs the line between flesh and blood beings and elementals.

So far Paizo has talked about what some of the races in Pathfinder 2.0 will look like in the playtesting phase. All of whom as everybody has noticed have single ancestry be it an elven or a goblin one.

But what have they got in store for us for Half-Elves, Half-Orcs and other beings (Aasimars, Tieflings, Genie-kin, etc.) who possess not one but two ancestries?

Currently Paizo has it where Half-Orcs and Half-Elves have two subtypes a piece that allow them access to feats, racial archetypes and prestige classes belonging to their full-blooded kin. As for the planetouched, they currently have the looks of their non-planar kin, but none of their non-planar kin's ancestral traits and a few watered down traits passed down to them by their planar ancestor.

Inquiring minds want to know. ;)

Marc Radle wrote:

Keep in mind that not all archetypes replace class features/abilities on a one to one basis. Sometimes one powerful abilty might replace multiple weaker abilities.

I’m fairly certain you get the elemental school abilities but not the spells. Keep in mind that those elemental school abilities are pretty powerful - most of them have more than one power packed within and/or scale up pretty nicely as you gain levels!

Okay. I had been wondering about such abilities replacing more than one class feature in a given class.

Would you be able to gain the bonus spells of the Elemental Arcane schools if you stacked the Elemental Ninja archetype with a spellcasting Ninja archetype like the Mystic Ninja archetype from Blood and Steel 2: The Ninja? *curious* The Elemental Ninja archetype replaces Poison Use and the Ninja tricks for levels 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th. The Mystic Ninja replaces Sneak Attack in order to gain the Mesmerist's spells and limited spellcasting (up to level 6).

Ever since I got the expanded version of Kobold Press' New Paths Compendium, I have been trying to make sense of what this feature gives to a Ninja with the Elemental Ninja archetype.

Elemental School: At 1st level, an elemental ninja
specializes in one of the following elements: air, earth,
fire, or water. This feature functions as the wizard’s arcane
school feature, except that the ninja’s selection is limited
to the elemental arcane schools as presented in the
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Player’s Guide. She
uses her ninja level as her wizard level, and she uses her
Charisma modifier instead of her Intelligence modifier
for all abilities tied to her chosen elemental arcane school.
Wizard levels stack with her ninja levels if she selects
the same elemental arcane school as her wizardly arcane
school. This ability replaces poison use and the ninja tricks
normally gained at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th level.

Does this feature just give the Elemental Ninja access to the three school abilities in each of the Elemental Arcane schools (Advanced Player's Guide)? Ex. The Elemental Earth school's Earth Supremacy, Acid Fog and Earth Glide. Or does it give the three school abilities and/or the bonus spells from the Elemental Wizard spell list as well?

I raised the latter question because while I can see Elemental School feature replacing Poison Use. I am not so sure what replaces the ninja tricks at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th level. There are only 3 Wizard school abilities, so that would leave one ninja trick in need of being replaced. On the other hand, I could see those levels representing levels where the Elemental Ninja acquires a bonus spell from a given level of the Elemental Wizard spell list. 1st level= 1st level spell. 4th level= 2nd level spell. Etc.

So what is the archetype feature giving to the Ninja who has it? Thoughts?

After seeing the number of posts regarding the conversion of the Warforged from 3.5 to Pathfinder, I found myself wondering if the Android's Constructed trait could be used in place of the Living Construct subtype. Both of them IMO allow the Warforged to be treated as a humanoid and as a construct. But I find the Constructed trait to be less complicated than the subtype. It's also less costly, coming in at just 2 RP.


avr wrote:
There's more wizard shadow spells than that. Shadow trap, shadow enchantment and shadow transmutation just off the top of my head, and I'm sure there's many more. Are you saying that only the spells you listed are 'true shadow' as opposed to being linked to illusion in some way?

I was using an Advanced Spell Search engine on in order to locate spells with the Shadow descriptor. The search engine allows you to find spells from all of the Pathfinder books that are currently out, or just those in the core rulebooks. I chose the latter. Thanks for letting me know. ;)

I decided to create this Elemental Arcane School after remembering that 3.5's Forgotten Realms setting had a group of mages who practiced Shadow Magic.Once again I cobbled together some elements of other classes to create this school.

Shadow School
Unlike those who use magic from the Shadow subschool of Illusion, Shadow Elementalists tap into the Plane of Shadow, and are able to manipulate ordinary shadows to do their bidding.

Shadow Supremacy (Su): You gain a +2 enhancement bonus on Stealth checks whenever you are in areas of poor illumination. This bonus increases by +1 for every five wizard levels you possess. In addition, You gain darkvision 60 feet. If you already have darkvision, increase your existing darkvision by 60 feet instead. At 11th level, you can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, even in absolute darkness or the darkness created by a deeper darkness spell. At 20th level, whenever you make a Stealth skill check, assume the roll resulted in a natural 20.

Binding Darkness (Sp): As a standard action, you cast a weave of shadows at any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. The shadows entangle your foe for 1 round plus 1 additional round for every five wizard levels you possess. In conditions of bright light, this duration is halved (minimum 1 round). A creature entangled by your shadows has concealment from those without darkvision or the ability to see in darkness, and other creatures likewise have concealment relative to it. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

Shadow Step (Sp): At 8th level, you can use this ability to walk through the Shadow Plane and reappear as a standard action. You can travel up to 30 feet per wizard level per day in this fashion, either in a single round or broken up across multiple shadow steps. This movement must be used in 5-foot increments and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Travel through the Shadow Plane is imprecise; when you arrive, you re-enter 1 square off target, as per the rules for thrown splash weapons (see page 202 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook). If this would place you in an occupied square, you instead arrive in the nearest safe location. When you arrive, you are cloaked in shadow and gain concealment as the blur spell for 1 round. You may bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each additional creature brought with you. They likewise re-enter off target (roll location for each creature) and are cloaked in shadow for 1 round.

Shadow Elementalist Spells
1-Shadow Weapon
2-Haunting Mists, Shadow Anchor
3-Gloomblind Bolts
4-Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Dragon Aspect, Shadow Step
5-Shadow Evocation
6-Shadow Walk
7-Lunar Veil, Project Image, Shadow Conjuration, Greater
8-Shadow Evocation, Greater

Ciaran Barnes wrote:
Thematically it could be a fit. I guess its not so terrible. Its personal only, it lasts rounds, Its an increase in speed, AC, and Reflex. It would be hard for a wizard to make use of its best effect: the extra attack. I think it could be abused, but it wouldn't be easy and there are better ways to play wizards that one who makes full attacks.

True. Haste lasts 1 round per level, and it would benefit the martial classes more than it would with the Wizard class.

What about giving them something like the Mobile Fighter archetype's Agility ability?

Agility (Ex.) At 2nd level, a mobile fighter gains a +1 bonus on saving throws made against effects that cause him to become paralyzed, slowed, or entangled. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.

Ciaran Barnes wrote:
Is it normal to have more than one bonus spell at a particular level? If not then you should fix that. A wizard being able to cast haste on him or herself is not as good as a martial character being able to do it, but I'm not sure how i feel about it since it is a 3rd level spell.

You're right. Wizards of a particular school of magic get only one bonus spell per level from their school. I should have named the two lists- Ice Elementalist Spells and Lightning Elementalist Spells.

As for the spell-like ability, I wasn't sure what to give the Lightning Mage for his Lightning Supremacy ability aside from his Electrical Resistance. Any ideas?

A little while ago, I posted a question in the Paizo forums on whether or not there would ever be Focused Arcane School variants for the Elemental Arcane Schools in the Advanced Player Guide. There was even one poster who hoped that Paizo would include this idea in their latest Pathfinder accessory, the Elemental Master's Handbook.

And it looks like they did in a way because the handbook has four Focused Arcane Schools. There are four focused arcane schools for Ice, Magma, Mud and Smoke.

IMO, they look okay. They aren't quite what I was expecting though. Take the Water School in the Advanced Player's Guide. It has Water Supremacy, Cold Blast and Wave. I was expecting Paizo to create a Water School where the Cold Blast ability had been replaced with another water-related ability. And I was expecting an Ice School where the Water Supremacy and Wave abilities had been replaced with Ice-related abilities. Keeping the Air Supremacy or the Water Supremacy abilities for the Ice School while replacing the latter two abilities from either school didn't make much sense to me.

So I decided to do something about it. The two schools below aren't Focused Arcane School variants, but actual Elemental Arcane Schools that I cobbled together from various Pathfinder sources.

Ice School

The ice elementalist draws magic by taking in the ambient heat of his surroundings and producing a supernatural cold that can chill a person down to the bone, shatter stone and make metal brittle to the touch.

Ice Supremacy (Su): You gain resistance 5 to cold. At 10th level, this resistance increases to 10. At 20th level, you gain immunity to cold damage. In addition, you can move across snow and icy surfaces without penalty and without leaving tracks. At 9th level, you climb icy surfaces as if using spider climb.

Freezing Shards (Su): As a standard action, you can cause shards of ice to burst forth from the ground around you. The shards deal 1d4 points of piercing damage and 1d6 points of cold damage + 1 point for every 2 wizard levels you have to all creatures within 5 feet of you. A successful Reflex save (DC = 10 + half your wizard level + your Intelligence modifier) negates the piercing damage and halves the cold damage. The shards remain until the beginning of your next turn; during this time, the area is difficult terrain. You are not affected by your own freezing shards and can move through the area normally. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

Icy Shackles (Su): At 8th level, as a standard action, you can make a melee touch attack against a foe to conjure icy restraints around it's ankles, reducing its base speed to 5 feet and dealing it an amount of cold damage at the beginning of its turn equal to your Intelligence modifier. The manacles have AC 10, hardness 0 and 30 hit points, and a creature can destroy them with a successful Strength check (DC = 10 + half your wizard level + your Intelligence modifier) as a standard action. The icy shackles melt away after 1 minute. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier.

The latter two abilities are from the Elemental Master's Handbook.

Bonus Spells:
0-Ray of Frost
1-Icicle Dagger, Snowball
2-Elemental Touch, Flurry Of Snowballs, Frigid Touch, Frost Fall, Unshakable Chill
3-Draconic Reservoir, Elemental Aura, Ice Spears, Sleet Storm, Vengeful Comets (Lvl 3)
4-Creeping Ice, Detonate, Dragon's Breath, Fire Shield, Ice Storm, Wall Of Ice
5-Cone of Cold, Icy Prison
6-Cold Ice Strike, Elemental Assessor, Freezing Sphere, Ice Crystal Teleport
7-Frost Mammoth, Ice Body
8-Polar Ray
9-Icy Prison, Mass

Lightning School

The Lightning Elementalist harnesses the power of the storm to deal with his foes, and sense his environment beyond what his normal senses can tell him.

Lightning Supremacy (Su): You gain resistance 5 to electricity. . At 10th level, this resistance increases to 10. At 20th level, you gain immunity to electrical damage. In addition, you can cast Haste on yourself. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

Lightning Flash (Su): As a standard action, you can unleash a flash of electricity. This flash deals 1d6 points of electricity damage + 1 point for every two wizard levels you possess to all creatures within 5 feet of you and dazzles them for 1d4 rounds. A successful Reflex save negates the dazzled effect and halves the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 your wizard level + your Intelligence modifier. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

This ability is from the Air School in the Advanced Player's Guide

Electrolocation (Su): At 8th level, you are constantly surrounded by a weak, electrical field, increasing your awareness of your surroundings. You are never denied your Dexterity bonus to AC against attacks made within 30 feet of you because you are flat-footed or because your assailant is unseen. In addition, you gain a bonus on Perception checks to avoid being surprised equal to half your wizard level.

With this ability, I tweaked the Aether Elementalist's Receptive Vibrations ability from the Elemental Master's Handbook to create a magical variant of the natural, real life ability possessed by sharks and some other animals.

Bonus Spells:
1-Body Capacitance, Shock Shield, Shocking Grasp
2-Aggressive Thundercloud, Defensive Shock, Elemental Touch
3-Draconic Reservoir, Elemental Aura, Lightning Bolt, Sheet Lightning, Storm Step
4-Aggressive Thundercloud, Greater; Ball Lightning, Detonate, Dragon's Breath, Hellmouth Lash, Shocking Image
5-Lightning Arc
6-Chain Lightning, Elemental Assessor
9-Ride the Lightning

Thoughts? I hope to do an Elemental Arcane School for Sound next.

avr wrote:
Had you thought about the mechanics you intend to use? I adjusted the school spell lists (because the elemental schools are small enough that you can meaningfully do that), but most of the existing focused schools just change a power or two. How would your lightning subschool differ from the air school?

I was thinking of doing two things with regards to my focused elemental schools idea. The first was to do what you just mentioned in your reply. I was going to replace the school powers in order to create the Wind subschool and Lightning subschool. With the Wind subschool, I was going to replace the Lightning Flash ability with a wind-related power. With the latter, I was going to replace Air Supremacy and Cyclone with a lightning-related power.

The second thing I would like to do is to create two separate bonus spell lists- one for spells with the Air descriptor and one for spells with Electricity descriptor.

I haven't figured out the replacement powers yet. But as for the bonus spells, I know of a search engine that can list every spell with the air and lightning descriptors.

Anyway, the lightning subschool would differ from the air school in that it would two lightning related powers and provide bonus spells with the electrical descriptor.

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

No, but it sounds like a good idea!

They've got a new book about elemental power scheduled for publication down the line. Assuming they haven't already, I wonder if it wouldn't be too late for them to try including something like this....

Thanks. ;) I had been thinking that there should be Focused variants of the Elemental Arcane Schools where you would have one mage focusing on the element specifically, and another mage focusing on the energy that is connected with that element.

Air School- Wind and Lightning

Earth School- Earth and Acid

Water School- Water and Ice(Cold)

The Fire School is a bit trickier than the other three because it's already an element AND an energy. So maybe there could be some focus on the heat and light aspects of it?

There probably are other areas within these four elements that can be focused upon that I don't know about. But Avr's work using the quasi-elements as Focused Elemental Schools is an interesting take on this particular topic. :)

Has anyone out there tried to create focused versions of the Elemental Arcane Schools of magic from the Advanced Player's Guide? *curious*

Elemental Resistance (1 RP?): Prerequisite: Outsider(native) with ties to an elemental plane; Benefit: Pick one of the following elements that corresponds to the plane the race has ties to: Air, Earth, Fire and Water. Members of this race have resistance 5 to the corresponding element. Special: This trait can taken more than once. Each time it is taken, select an additional element that corresponds to another elemental place the race has ties to.

Improved Elemental Resistance (2 RP?): Prerequisite: Resistance 5 to any element; Benefit: Members of this race increase their resistance to one element to 10. Special: This racial trait can be taken multiple times. Each additional time you take this trait. increase its cost by 1 RP, and increase one other resistance to 10.

I came up with these two racial traits for the genie-kin after wondering if some of them could ignore elemental damage from a mundane or magical source. Could a Slyph, for instance, ignore some of the damage from a naturally generated tornado or a tornado created through a spell that has the air descriptor. Could an Oread shrug off some of the damage from a naturally occurring rock slide or avalanche.

I don't know about you guys but I find a bit odd that the Genie-kin can be receive full damage from their own element as a non-Genie Kin can.


JiCi wrote:

Hmmm... if you're going to replace the ninja trick that kineticist class features, wouldn't it be easier to simply make those as ninja tricks?

Kinetic Blast (regular), Composite Blast (master), Infusions (regular or master), Wild Talents (regular or master), these can all be converted into ninja tricks, using Ki points instead of Burn points, as you wrote down.

If the kineticist class features were made into ninja tricks, you might end up with something like a feat tree. The 'base feat' would be the Elemental Focus, which would grant you the basic kinesis as a benefit. After that:

Kinetic Blast would need Elemental Focus as a prerequisite.

The infusions would need Elemental Focus and Kinetic Blast as prerequisites. And for some infusions, another infusion is needed as a prerequisite before you can acquire it.

A Composite Blast would need Elemental Focus, Kinetic Blast, and Expanded Element as prerequisites. The Composite Blasts would probably be Master Tricks given the number of prerequisites that need to be covered. But to be honest, I would like to see composite blasts being used in a cross between this archetype and KOP II's Fusion Kineticist archetype. That way, you could get someone like Gaara or Haku.

Wild Talents would require Elemental Focus as a prerequisite.

So the kineticist class features might be a bit unwielding as ninja tricks IMO.

Otoh, the kineticist class features could work if they fell under the Ninjitsu class feature of this version of the ninja class:

This version separates the ki-related ninja tricks from the non-ki ones. The former becoming jutsu under the Ninjitsu feature.

After seeing the Hoka-han archetype for Everyman Games' Unchained Ninja class sometime ago, I decided to tweak it in order to make it more inclusive with regards to the other elements available for kineticists. This includes the elements of Light, Sound and Time from Purple Duck Games' Kineticists of Porphyra (KOP 1).

I like to think this will make some ninjas resemble the ninjas as seen in the Naruto anime. Short of making a Ninja/Kineticist hybrid class. ;)

This is my first attempt to create an archetype for an existing class. I know that the word shinobi is just another name for ninja. But I don't know of a better name for a group of kineticist-touched ninjas.

Anyhow, suggestions are welcome.

Chosen Element (Su):
At 1st level, a shinobi chooses one element on which to focus. This element determines how she accesses the raw power of the planes. She can choose from one of the following elements: Aether, Air, Earth, Fire, Light, Sound, Time, Void, Water or Wood.

At 10th level, a shinobi can independently choose a second element to learn from.

This ability replaces Poison Use.

Elemental Style (Su):
At 2nd level, a shinobi gains the basic kinesis and simple blast wild talents of their chosen element. She uses her ninja level as her effective kineticist level to determine the effects of the basic kinesis, but she uses her simple blast as if she were only a first level kineticist.

As a swift action, a shinobi can draw upon her ki in order to empower her simple blast wild talent, allowing her to use her ninja level as her effective kineticist level when she uses the simple blast wild talent. This effect lasts until the end of the shinobi’s turn and uses up 1 ki point.

This ability counts as having the elemental focus kineticist class feature with the chosen element. If the shinobi takes up levels in the kineticist class, her elemental focus in that class must be the same as her chosen element, even if that means the elemental focus of her kineticist class must change. Subject to GM discretion, the shinobi can change her former elemental focus to make them conform. Her ninja levels will stack with her kineticist levels when determining the effects of the basic kinesis and simple blast wild talents of her chosen element. A shinobi cannot expend ki from her ki pool in order to make additional attacks during a full-attack, nor can she spend ki in order to give herself an insight bonus on Stealth checks. This ability alters ki pool.

Ki Infusion (Ex):
At 2nd level, whenever a shinobi uses the simple blast wild talent of their chosen element, she can, as a free action, call upon her ki to apply one form infusion wild talent or substance infusion wild talent to her simple blast. She can chose any infusion available to a kineticist with a level equal to her ninja level when using this ability. She must meet all of the infusion’s prerequisites in order to apply it to her simple blast and she is limited to infusions that list the simple blast of her chosen element as an associated blast.

A shinobi is unable to accept burn from her chosen infusion. Instead, applying the chosen infusion to her simple blast expends 2 ki points from her ki pool, plus an additional number of ki points equal to the infusion’s burn cost.

This ability replaces the ninja trick gained at 2nd level.

Greater Ki Infusion (Su):
At 10th level, when a shinobi uses her ki infusion ability to add a infusion wild talent to her simple blast, she can apply one form infusion and one substance infusion to her simple blast. When doing so, she expends 4 ki points from her ki pool, plus an additional number of ki points equal to the combined burn cost of both infusions.

This ability replaces the ninja trick gained at 10th level.

N. Jolly wrote:

If you're up for homebrew, Sphynx did a few of them.

Other stuff

They're pretty interesting, decently balanced and such.

Thanks for the info on Sphynx's work regarding these Kineticist racial archetypes. I agree that they are pretty interesting and balanced. :)

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In Occult Adventures, Kineticists are living channels for elemental matter and energy, manipulating the world around them by drawing upon inner reserves from their own bodies. And under most circumstances, a kineticist often receives this ability to bend matter and energy because of a violent or traumatic experience.

I use the word most because what if it is not the case for the Genie-kin? What if the abilities of the Kineticist class come naturally to them?

I don't think a Genie-kin would be limited to being a Kineticist of their element. Ex. Oreads being Geokineticists, or Sylphs being Aerokineticists. But I do think a Genie-kin Kineticist can produce some interesting combos that can be made into archetypes.

Sylph + Pyrokineticist= an Ash-related Kineticist
Sylph + Hydrokineticist (emphasis on cold)= a pure Cryokineticist
Sylph + Geokineticist= a Dust or Sand-related Kineticist
Sylph + Aerokineticist (emphasis on electricity)= a pure Electrokineticist

And so forth. ;)

Aside from probably starting out with a possible composite blast instead of a simple kinetic blast. A Genie-kin might have a reduced Burn cost compared to most Kineticists.

Not sure what else a Genie-kin archetype of the Kineticist class might have.

What do you think a possible Genie-kin archetype of this class might have? *curious*

Can a character wielding two weapons or a double weapon use Vital Strike with each weapon (or in the case of a double weapon, both ends)?

LOL. I can imagine a phytokineticist wanting to prune a Plant-Type monster with basic phytokinesis.

Not the most imaginative form of basic kinesis IMO.

So far Paizo has come up with 7 different kinds of Kineticists for us players to try out. But what other kinds of kineticists would you like to see them develop in future Pathfinder products?

Personally I would like to see:

1) Electrokinesis

I know that Electricity currently is a part of Aerokinesis. Why I am not really sure. But I can imagine that this form of kinesis could come in handy in places like Numeria.

2) Cryokinesis

Like electricity, cold is currently a part of hydrokinesis. But I think this form of kinesis could stand on it's own.

3) Audiokinesis

Sometimes mistaken for bards, these kineticists are their own sound-system. ;)

4) Photokinesis

Like #3, I can imagine that these guys can be mistaken for illusionists. And if a photokineticist was to expand into audiokinesis (or vice versa)... ;)

A little while ago, I bought the Occult Origins PDF in order to see what new Kineticists Paizo had come up with this accessory. And I noticed that the PDF didn't make any mention of what Basic Phytokinesis does exactly.

Anyone got a clue as to what was this Utility Wild Talent does? *curious*

Actually according to Wikipedia, Ninjas were considered to be mercenaries or covert spies during Japan's feudal era. This might be why one of the reasons those at Paizo saw the Ninja as an alternate version of the Rogue.

Anyway, what made me think of borrowing elements from the Kineticist class for the Ninja hybrid class was the former's Infusion special ability. Namely the Substance and Form infusions. The Substance Infusions of the Kineticist class make me think of the Nature Transformation jutsu some Ninja in the Naruto anime happen to possess. Form Infusion reminds me of the Shape Transformation jutsu,
The Burn cost of a Kineticist's Utility or Infusion Wild Talents could be seen as a Ki point cost. Ninjutsu, anyone?

As for the Mesmerist class, there are Ninja in the Naruto anime who appear to possess some of the former's abilities. Genjutsu.

Again, I could see the above being used by archetypes of this hybrid class.

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If the Ninja class was a hybrid class created from the Unchained Monk and Unchained Rogue classes, what Special Features from either class would you like to see in the hybrid class? And what unique Special Features that would be unique to this hybrid class, would you like to see? *curious*

From the Unchained Monk class, I would initially like to see Flurry of Blows and Unarmed Strike. Let's face it, the Ninja is very much the martial artist as the monk class. So it makes sense to see the hybrid class possess these two features as well. After these two special features, I can also imagine the hybrid class possessing Evasion, Fast Movement, Ki Pool, Ki Power and Style Strike.

As for the Unchained Rogue class, I can see the hybrid possessing the Rogue's Sneak Attack, Rogue Talents, Deliberate Injury, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge and Advanced Talents.

Now onto what could make this hybrid class unique, I see this class borrowing elements from the Naruto anime. What if the ninjas here could transform their ki into wind, earth, fire, lightning and water? Or perhaps shape their ki into different forms. Or what if they were able to manipulate the ki found in other people to control their minds or make them see illusions?

So maybe the hybrid class could borrow something from the Kineticist or Mesmerist classes in Occult Adventures. I am not sure if features from these two psychic classes would be part of the actual hybrid class or archetypes of said hybrid. Probably the latter.

What do you guys think? *curious*

Eltacolibre wrote:

I'm not even sure what is the question here...are you confused because you think that alternate racial trait should be the same value as the trait they are replacing?

You will often find out looking around that it isn't the case just by going through a few races with alternate racial traits. Alternate racial traits value are not created equal.

No, what I am trying to figure out is how the people who created that alternate racial trait for the undine got it to equal 1 RP (the same cost as the undines' spell-like ability). The undines are the only race in the Advanced Race Guide who have two different breath weapons listed as alternate racial traits in that book. And neither one completely follows the breath weapon trait mentioned in the Race Builder chapter at the end of that book.

If I could figure out how Paizo did the math for that particular alternate trait, then I could do something similar when using the Race Builder.

According to the Advanced Race Guide:

*Acid Breath: Undines whose outsider heritage can be traced to a water mephit can wield acid as a weapon. Such an undine has a breath weapon that is a 5-foot cone of acidic water usable once per day. The breath deals 1d8 points of acid damage per two character levels (maximum 5d8). A Reflex saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the undine's level + the undine's Constitution modifier) halves the damage. This racial trait replaces the spell-like ability racial trait.*

The undine's spell-like ability racial trait costs about 1 RP.

So how does Acid Breath have the same cost as the undine's spell-like ability? By itself, a breath weapon costs about 1 RP. Add in the Powerful Breath (+1 RP) and Increased Damage (+1d8/ 2 levels. Max. 5d8. = 4 RP?), and the above trait should cost 6 RP.

I am guessing that the reduced range of this breath weapon plus the spacing of the Increased Damage special to every 2 levels brought down the cost back down to 1 RP. But I do not know how they reduced the cost.

Does anyone have an idea on how the math was done here?


With regards to what your shark folk look like, may I suggest the Karkarodon race from Star Wars? Tamson-SWE.png


One of the major hurdles to developing heritages for the elemental kin for Pathfinder is that there are not many groups of elemental beings for them to be descended from. So far it just looks like you can get them from Genies, Mephits and those who had the fortune/misfortune to be exposed to a source of elemental energy while pregnant. The Ifrits are a little better off in that you can have them being the descendants of Azers and Salamanders.

A thought did occur to me the other day, however, on another possible heritage for the elemental kin. Those celestials or fiends who have something elemental about them. For instance, there are the Peri from the Bestiary 3. Normally you would get a Peri-Blooded or Emberkin Aasimar as a result. But what if there was a chance for a Peri-Blooded Ifrit?

I know, this thought would probably muddy things further. It's just a possibility. But who knows?

--Chengar Qordath
In the past Paizo has come out with Para-Genasi in its' former Dragon Magazine publications. And there are unofficial websites that have examples of quasi-Genasi. So they could be converted over into Pathfinder. For instance, a Lightning Quasi-Genasi could be the result of a mortal mating with a Djinn who lived in one of the planet-sized storms on the Elemental Plane of Air. A Magma Para-Genasi could be the result of a mortal mating with a shaitan or an efreet that spent too much time living near the border of the Elemental Plane of Earth and the Elemental Plane of Fire.

There's also the possibility of an elemental kin coming from a genie of mixed blood. The Pathfinder SRD website has one example of a mixed blood genie that is the offspring of Djinn and Efreets.

Maybe Paizo will do something about this in a future product. Again, who knows?

I am not suggesting that the ifrits, oreads, slyphs and undines be torn up just to make another heritage chart. What I would like to see are versions of these four that are the descendants of something other than a genie. How would an ifrit descended from a fire mephit differ (with regards to attributes and the ifrit's spell-like ability) from an ifrit who is the descendant of an Efreet.
These differences are clear when you look at an agathion-blooded aasimar and an angel-blooded aasimar. But they aren't so clear when it is just a single trait being replaced by an alternate racial trait. Sure, an ifrit with the fast healing of a fire mephit is different from an ifrit that doesn't have this trait. But what else is different about them?

The heritages presented in Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends are a great way to play a specific kind of aasimar or tiefling. I doubt that Paizo made a bloody mess when they came up with all of these different celestial or fiendish heritages. They were offering the players more options to play with. I just wish the same was done for these four races.

I do agree with you that it is officially too late to implement. Unofficially though, this idea can be implemented by a third party source or by another fan of Pathfinder.

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What if the Genie-kin was more like one of the aasimar or tiefling heritages instead of a mere grouping of races? As most Pathfinder fans know by now, aasimars and tieflings can come in several different 'flavors' besides the standard run-of-the-mill member of their respective races. A player playing an aasimar can play as a standard aasimar or he could play an aasimar who is a descendant of an agathion, an angel, an archon, an azata, a garuda or a peri. The same can be said of the tieflings, a player can play as a standard tiefling or he can play a tiefling who is the descendant from one of the 10 different kinds of fiends that plague Golarion.
Genie-kin on the other hand are pretty run-of-the-mill. Unless a player is using an alternate racial trait to show that his genie-kin is the descendent of a Mephit or some other elemental race, everyone knows or assumes that he is the descendant of a particular genie.

So why did the genie-kin get the short end of the stick? Why isn't the genie-kin merely a heritage like an agathion-blooded aasimar or a div-blooded tiefling?

I think it would be nice if the genie-kin was merely a heritage, one of several for the elemental planetouched. Thoughts, everyone?

Aside from genie-kin, the next most obvious heritage for the elemental planetouched are those descended from the Mephits. Mephit-Kin? Mephlings?

If anyone knows of any other elemental planetouched heritage, please leave a link for everybody to purview.

I vote for number 2. I like the idea of a world strongly influenced by the elements.

Ever since I got my hands on the Bestiary 4 and read the Oceanid's Water Telekinesis ability, I have been wondering what an elemental version of the 5th level Telekinesis spell would look like.

For those of you who don't have access to the Bestiary 4, here is what the Water Telekinesis of the Oceanid looks like:

Water Telekinesis (Su): When immersed in water, an oceanid can manipulate water to affect creatures and objects within 500 feet that are in contact with the same body of water. This functions as the combat maneuver form of the telekinesis spell (caster level 9th, combat maneuver bonus +14), including the need to maintain concentration. This ability also allows her to create a small waterspout as a standard action once per round, striking an opponent within 100 feet with a blast of water as a ranged attack that deals 7d6 points of bludgeoning damage.

As a spell or a spell-like ability, I can imagine this ability being reworded to say that the caster would have to be near a source of water for it to work properly. But in every other way it work like a limited version of telekinesis.

Fire telekinesis pretty much work the same way as Water telekinesis. The real issue for Elemental telekinesis would how such a spell or spell-like ability works for Earth or Air telekinesis whose source is more common than either fire or water.

Then there is the question of spell level for elemental telekinesis. On the one hand, it's more limited in what it can or cannot affect. Telekinesis can affect just about anything. Elemental telekinesis can affect only one of the four elements. So it sounds to me like it ought to be at a lower spellcasting level. Perhaps 4th level at best. But on the other hand, elemental telekinesis sounds like it could mimic other spells that have the air, earth, fire or water descriptors. Someone using Fire Telekinesis could manipulate the fire he's playing around with and create something that looks like a fireball or a wall of fire spell. In this case, it sounds like the spellcasting level would be higher than 5th level.

Thoughts on this conundrum?

P.S. If elemental telekinesis is lower than 5th level, imagine how fun it would be to have it as a spell-like ability usable a few times per day. Benders, anyone?

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Dragonfolk= Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Dragons? ;)

Ever since Paizo came out with Blood of Fiends and Blood of Angels, I wondered if there would ever be a draconic race that could be used for a possible Blood of Dragons. ;)

Since Pathfinder is backwards compatible with 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons, does this mean that we could be seeing a Dragonfolk representative of every true dragon made by the two role-playing game companies? Or will they be limited to just the true dragons found in Pathfinder's four Bestiaries (Chromatic, Metallic, Primal, Imperial and Outer)?

Currently Pathfinder has 25 True Dragons in it's Bestiaries:
Chromatic- Black, Blue, Green, Red and White

Metallic- Brass, Bronze, Copper, Gold and Silver

Primal- Brine, Cloud, Crystal, Magma and Umbral

Imperial- Forest, Sea, Sky, Sovereign and Underworld

Outer- Lunar, Solar, Time, Void and Vortex

3.5 Dungeons and Dragons had many more species of True Dragons besides the Chromatic and Metallic Dragons. There were the psionic Gem dragons. Dragon Magazine had the Ferrous Dragons and Planar Dragons (one for each of the Outer Planes in the Great Wheel plus the Ethereal and Astral planes).

So many Dragonfolk, so many possibilities. ;)

One possible way to make Dragonfolk Clerics unique would be for them to use the Alternate Channeling rules in Ultimate Magic. None of the races in the Advanced Race Guide who get a Favored Class bonus for being a cleric deals with alternate channeling.

As for what a Dragonfolk could channel alternately, I am not really sure. I was thinking that they could help or harm using the four elements. In the Midgard setting, the Dragonkin worship four elemental deities. Aside from Apsu, Dahak and Tiamat, Dragonfolk Clerics could pay their respects to the elements.

What do you think? *curious*

I can imagine trying to come up with some distinct favored class bonuses was the hardest part in the building of this race. I don't think I could have come up with anything better. These ones look pretty good to me. :)

So what do you have in mind with the other classes besides these ones? *curious*

Ah, okay. When it comes to breath weapons and player character races such as your Dragonfolk, I tend to like the idea of them being able to use it at a lower level and more frequently. If your Dragonfolk were able to use their breath weapon more frequently, they could then qualify for the Metabreath feats in the 3.5 Draconomicon. Just imagine a Bronze Dragonfolk using Substitute Breath to change the energy type of his breath weapon from electricity to acid or fire. Or to add another energy type to his electrical breath weapon attack.

I think this race would love the Magus class. ;)

After looking at the long list of Dragonfolk feats here, I have to wonder what really separates a racial feat from an alternate racial trait. Especially since a feat of any kind can become a Static Bonus Feat trait for a race. Some of the above feats could be treated as alternate racial traits.

Anyway I did come across two alternate racial traits that could be used in place of Claws of the Wyrm and Fangs of the Wyrm.

Cat's Claws Some catfolk have stronger and more developed claws than other members of their race, and can use them to make attacks. catfolk with this racial trait have a pair of claws they can use as natural weapons. These claws are primary attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage. This racial trait replaces natural hunter.

Change Catfolk to Dragonfolk, and this alternate racial trait would read:

Dragon Claws: Some dragonfolk have stronger and more developed claws than other members of their race and can use them to make attacks. Dragonfolk with this racial trait have a pair of claws they can use as natural weapons. These claws are primary attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage.

Cat's Claws cost about 6 RP. But I am thinking that this trait might cost less here for the Dragonfolk.

Dragonmaw Your draconic heritage makes you smile- not just because it makes you happy, but also because your powerful teeth and jaws are proof of your kinship with a chromatic dragon. You gain a bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage. Once per day, you can deal 1d6 points of additional energy damage with your bite attack. The damage type depends on your scale color: acid for black or green; electricity for blue; fire for red; cold for white. If you have a different scale color, you still gain a bite attack, but cannot deal the additional energy damage. This racial traits replaces the armor racial trait.

So not only could a Dragonfolk bite someone, they could do an additional amount of energy damage once per day. And this alternate racial trait just costs 2 RP.

Just out of curiosity, but have ever you thought of equipping the Dragonfolk with the spell Dragon Breath (Advanced Player's Guide) as a spell-like ability? I know the Advanced Race Guide says you can't pick a damage-dealing spell as spell-like ability. But whoever came up with this rule forgot that the spell-like abilities for the Ifrits, Oreads and Undines do damage. :-p Dragon Breath is a 4th-level spell, so it would be a Greater Spell-like ability for 4 RP. It does 1d6 points per character level (maximum 12d6) once per day. There is a feat back 3.5
that would allow for greater use of a spell-like ability.

Hope this helps. I also hope Paizo takes notice of the Dragonfolk and makes them official. :)

@Marc Radle

I bought the Advanced Races #4: Dragonkin PDF sometime ago, and wasn't terribly impressed with the crunch it had to offer. I think JiCi's work on his Dragonfolk is a lot better than what Kobold Press put out for the Dragonkin.


To create something similar to the Dragonblood subtype in 3.5, an adaptation of this racial trait could work:

Constructed (2 RP): For the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type (such as a ranger's favored enemy and bane weapons), androids count as both humanoids and constructs. Androids gain a +4 racial bonus on all saving throws against mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, and stun effects, are not subject to fatigue or exhaustion, and are immune to disease and sleep effects. Androids can never gain morale bonuses, and are immune to fear effects and all emotion-based effects.

This trait is for the Android Race in Pathfinder's Inner Sea Bestiary. For your Dragonfolk race, it could be rewritten like this:

Dragonblood (2 RP): For the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type (such as a ranger's favored enemy and bane weapons), dragonfolk count as both humanoids and dragons...

Hope this helps. ;)

You could adapt the Kobold's Draconic Aspect Feats in the Advanced Race Guide for the Dragonfolk here.

Draconic Aspect- Energy Resistance 5

Draconic Breath- +2 bonus against sleep and paralysis effects. 2d6 breath weapon useable once per day. There is a special feature to this feat where if you are a sorcerer, you can use your Charisma modifier instead of their Constitution to determine the number of times per day they can use this breath weapon and the DC of this breath weapon. Prerequisite: Draconic Aspect

Draconic Glide- +2 bonus against sleep and paralysis effects. Glide ability. Prerequisite: Draconic Aspect.

Draconic Paragon- +2 bonus against sleep and paralysis effects. You can use your breath weapon twice per day and it's damage increases to 4d6. Gain the Flight ability. Prerequisites: Draconic Aspect, either Draconic Breath or Draconic Glide, character level 10.

You could also create a Draconic version of the Tengu racial feat- Tengu Wings from the Advanced Race Guide.

Anyway, you did a nice job writing up their background.

I placed a pre-order for the Bestiary 4 (Order #2837023) and the Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of the Moon (Order #2837024) back on October 13th. Shortly after I placed it, I received an email that stated that the order wouldn't ship until both items were received from the manufacturer. That was 11 days ago. Both items according to Paizo's Product Schedule are now In Stock.

So what's taking Paizo so long to get back to me regarding the order? In the past, it usually took Paizo a couple days to notify me that they completed the order on their end and shipped it out to me.

I would appreciate getting a status update regarding my order.


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The various Mysteries/Revelations of the Oracle class could be used to depict the 'Element Release/Style' ability of the characters in the anime.


Mystery of Flame= Fire Release/Style
Mystery of Stone= Earth Release/Style
Mystery of Waves= Water Release/Style
Mystery of Wind= Wind Release/Style

Someone would have to invent a Mystery/Revelation for Lightning Release/Style and Ice Release/Style. The Bloodline Limit ability of some ninja in the anime (ex. Sasuke) and the more clan-specific abilities ( Ex.Shikamaru's Shadow Manipulation) could be depicted as several spell-like abilities.

At any rate, the big question here would have to be which of the Ninja's special class abilities would have to be replaced. The spellcasting ability of the Ninja archetype in Ultimate Options: Power of the Ninja replaces Sneak Attack. The Elemental Ninja archetype replaces the Ninja's Poison Use ability and Ninja Tricks (at levels 4, 8, 12, and 16) with the Elemental schools in the Advanced Player's Guide.

The Advanced Race Guide says that a half-construct race is a group of creatures that are artifically enhanced or have parts replaced by constructed mechanisms, be they magical or mechanical. So could a race such as WoTC's Warforged be considered a Half-Construct?

Just wondering if anyone has been inspired to create a special subtype similar to the Half-Construct and Half-Undead subtypes in the Advanced Race Guide. If anyone has made one, please post them here on this forum thread. Inquiring fans would like to know. ;)

Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
For that matter, if you read the Half-Dragon entry in the Bestiary, they specifically state that Half-Dragons are less the result of Dragons interbreeding with non-Draconic species & more the result of magical experimentation.

True, but the Bestiary also mentions that a successful creation breeds true with others of its kind. So it is possible for a race of humanoid dragons to emerge from a magical experiment. One would just need a large enough test population.

Speaking of magical experimentation, there was a 3rd party accessory from Goodman Games a while back that mentioned a form of experimentation called Egg Sculpting. By using magic to warp an unborn dragon within an egg, a spellcaster could create draconic creatures with any feature they liked.

While it might be true that the aasimar, tiefling and dhampir have received a more substantial role in D&D and in Pathfinder, the genasi-types should be fleshed out within the Golarion campaign setting. Especially since they like the aasimar and tiefling could have a number of interesting heritages for a play to choose from. Aside from the genies, genasi-type characters could claim descent from mephits (Mephlings)or elementals (the Infused).

As for the Dragon-descended, Kobolds definitely could have a book of their own. Just imagine Kobolds being descendants of not just the Chromatic dragons, but the Metallic (Noble Kobolds?), Primal (a genasi-like Kobold?) and Imperial (Eastern Kobolds?) dragons as well.
But what I was really referring to with regards to the dragon-descended are the Half-Dragons. Though something like 4e's Dragonborn would also be nice. ;)

First there was the Blood of Fiends book which provided background information about Tieflings in the Golarion campaign setting. Then the Aasimars had their turn in Blood of Angels. So will Paizo ever come up with a book that deals with those who are the dragon-descended or have descended from elemental beings such as the genies or mephits?

Inquiring minds want to know. ;)

According to the Advanced Race Guide, the Dragon type costs about 10 Race Points (RP). Five out of the ten of those Race Point are from the Darkvision 60 feet racial trait (2 RP), the low-light vision racial trait (1 RP), an immunity to magical sleep effects (1 RP) and an immunity to paralysis effects (1 RP). So where do the remaining five Race Points come from?

I am thinking they come from just the Dragon type itself. So the total RP cost for any of the Types presented in the Advanced Race Guide could be Monster Type plus any monster type traits they might have.

Here are what some of the other Monster types might cost by themselves:

Aberration (3 RP)
Aberration Type + Darkvision 60 feet racial trait (2 RP)= 3 RP
Aberration type= 1 RP

Fey (2 RP)
Fey type + Low-light vision racial trait (1 RP)= 2 RP
Fey type = 1 RP

Monstrous Humanoid (3 RP)
Monstrous Humanoid + Darkvision 60 feet racial trait (2 RP)= 3 RP
Monstrous Humanoid type = 1 RP

Outsider (Native) (3 RP)
Outsider (Native) + Darkvision 60 feet racial trait (2 RP)= 3 RP
Outsider (Native)= 1 RP

Does this make any sense for those of you who are creating your own races? *curious*

Just out of curiosity, but has anyone created an archetype of the Magus class where the Magus' spell list has been replaced with the spell list of a particular Wizard school of magic?

Ex. A Magi using just the spells from the Wizard's Evocation school of magic= Warmage.

zerzix wrote:

Thanks everyone for the quick replys. Again, keep em coming. Any corrections needed, clarifications, miscalculations or flavor text needed just let me know. =)

Don DM: Thanks also for the play testing info and yeah...the new update has:
1. ki included in the grid as well as text.
2. updated unarmed damage
3. updated fast movement
4. corrections to spelling/grammer errors/clarification to some text descriptions

Here is a newer version of what the grid will look like from This is still a 'work-in-progress' but has a more up to date grid.

Element Master

Dread Pirate: Yeah, I started this pre-korra, but stil have had that thought as well. Might be my next project.

Kryzbyn: My thoughts as well, thanks for the response!

Hi Zerzix,

I took a look at your latest incarnation of the Benders from the Last Airbender series and I am impressed. This is an archetype that very well could be the favored class of Ifrits, Oreads, Slyphs, Undines and Suli. :)

Anyhow, I was looking at the Element Master's Child Power class feature and noticed that you don't have anything for Earthbenders. In the Last Airbender series, there was an episode where it was revealed that Earthbenders can't bend Earth if they aren't in contact with it. If an Earthbender is traveling on a boat or flying on an airship, they shouldn't be able to bend unless have a ready source of earth nearby. Thoughts?

P.S. I love to see you create an archetype of the Ninja alternate class where the Ninja resembles those seen in the Naruto anime. Ditto for an Alchemist archetype patterned off of the Alchemists in the Fullmetal Alchemist anime. ;)

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