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Do you also reach rhetoric as part of your english classes or just coherent communication skills?
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I mean, beyond middle school there's no other real reason except yours, which is legit the best reason I've seen.
Well, except for "our funding is directly dependant on standardized testing, and those don't cover useful life skills, so enjoy math, analogies, and persuasive essays, because to hell with sciences, arts, and anything remotely related to finding a job or taking care of legit worries like taxes."
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I had to edit that four times to sound less like an a&$+#*@ and not sound like I'm criticizing Scint's job, which I legit think is super important.
However, they didn't teach me how to do that in school; I was taught s#!& like how to use a semicolon and to start words with however instead of but.
It's the people who mandate the curriculum and stifle your creativity as a teacher I am annoyed with. Teachers in the trenches like you are unsung heroes who deserve just...all the raises. God knows I couldn't do it again.
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I still remember being yelled at in High School when I pointed out we needed to know how taxes worked moreso than the quadratic equation.
God, I hate math.
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However, they didn't teach me how to do that in school; I was taught s+%$ like how to use a semicolon and to start words with however instead of but.
Honestly? That's a function of what I was saying. I think people just don't think to frame it in those terms. Every time they roll out new standards or whatever, they all come back to "can understand words thrown at them; can make own words understood." Which...we're already doing. But people get bogged down in "We are reading Huck Finn this year," so I think people focus on the methods of pushing those skills through rather than what those skills are actually going to do. I've had coworkers who looked at me like I'd grown a second head when I told them I was describing English as analyzing using words to get your way because while they couldn't really say I was wrong, they'd never thought of it that way.
Like. Grammar matters because you need to make your point crystal clear. Starting a sentence with but tends to break your flow, for instance. You learn grammar and sentence structure as a part of "If I phrase and punctuate my sentence this way, people will understand what I want. If I use this evidence instead of that evidence, people will have the emotional response I want." It's amazing how tiny words and bits of punctuation can completely annihilate an otherwise banging paragraph.
...I just, as students have noticed, have approximately zero chill and am far, far blunter than most people. Welcome to English. You're going to learn how words can be used to manipulate people. Read this story - how did the author use words to make you feel a feel? Write an essay. Make me care about your opinion and show me you can source it. And please make sure I can actually read it.
In terms of actual content, I don't think I'm really doing anything that differently than any English teacher I've ever had.
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Do you also reach rhetoric as part of your english classes or just coherent communication skills?
Far as I'm concerned, they're one in the same. You can't communicate effectively without knowing the methods available to you.
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Is Klingon an option.
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I still remember being yelled at in High School when I pointed out we needed to know how taxes worked moreso than the quadratic equation.
God, I hate math.
Thing is, I've never been at a school where a class on personal finance/financial literacy wasn't offered. We straight-up require it for graduation.
...I've just noticed that a good chunk of the seniors refuse to take it seriously, so idk what to tell you.
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While I agree with you, there are other factors to that besides the proper sentence structure.
For example, I am a person who tries to help people by nature. However it was only yesterday at 38 years old that I learned unsolicited advice is considered complaining by other people. I actually appreciate when someone tells me something that I can do to improve myself, so that path of thought never crossed my mind. It wasn't until my stepfather conveyed that fact to me, though, that I learned apparently I have to walk on eggshells when trying to help people. That is much more useful information than the proper conjugation of a past tense participle.
Similarly, it wasn't until my late 20s that I learned the proper way to approach someone with a negative fact: by sandwiching it between two positive effects so that the person is more likely to listen to the negative in the middle. This is because people who are sensitive to critique ignore negativity at all costs unless you sneak it up on them.
Again..
Not par for school courses.
While I agree with you, there are other factors to that besides the proper sentence structure.
For example, I am a person who tries to help people by nature. However it was only yesterday at 38 years old that I learned unsolicited advice is considered complaining by other people. I actually appreciate when someone tells me something that I can do to improve myself, so that path of thought never crossed my mind. It wasn't until my stepfather conveyed that fact to me, though, that I learned apparently I have to walk on eggshells when trying to help people. That is much more useful information than the proper conjugation of a past tense participle.
Similarly, it wasn't until my late 20s that I learned the proper way to approach someone with a negative fact: by sandwiching it between two positive effects so that the person is more likely to listen to the negative in the middle. This is because people who are sensitive to critique ignore negativity at all costs unless you sneak it up on them.
Again..
Not par for school courses.
Yeah...I'm not gonna teach people how to read human behavior. I still don't have much ability to read a room. At some point, you have to draw the line on what my socially-inept brain can teach. I teach language, not how to be a complete human.
Words, though? Words I can control. And the compliment sandwich thing seems pretty par for basic argument claim-counter-rebuttal format.
I get what you're going for, but it's really starting to veer into "you signed up to be a teacher but I really need you to be a parent" territory. And that's a hard no thank.
I suppose this is why debate should be mandatory, but math beyond pre-algebra should be saved exclusively for engineers, physicists, chemists, and others who actually need it, in my opinion at least. Sure would cut down on b+%#*&+~ fallacy arguments.
And it isn't that you should do it. I simply believe there should be a class for reading people taught by salesmen and therapists.
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Hard disagree. I don't need to learn how to argue in front of a crowd of smuglords. But abstracted logical thinking and working to extrapolate from limited knowns? I use my math-brain skills all the time.
Hmm. I view rhetoric as distinct from coherent communication skills. I am perfectly capable of explaining how an integrated circuit communicates with another down to which bits in the datagram are set in what fashion to convey whether there is a cyclic redundancy check appended, but the reasons why this arrangement may be effective or useful are a different skill set.
That said, I parse words for a living and different rhetorical styles are something I have actually spent a few semesters studying.
That said, it is more important for me currently to speak engineer than it is to be able to parse the bill of rights.
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Spent the morning helping paint distance markers on the sidewalk, now eating a free catered sandwich at my desk while I listen to Binging with Babish and write economics notes. Been a decent day so far.
Hmm. I view rhetoric as distinct from coherent communication skills. I am perfectly capable of explaining how an integrated circuit communicates with another down to which bits in the datagram are set in what fashion to convey whether there is a cyclic redundancy check appended, but the reasons why this arrangement may be effective or useful are a different skill set.
That said, I parse words for a living and different rhetorical styles are something I have actually spent a few semesters studying.
That said, it is more important for me currently to speak engineer than it is to be able to parse the bill of rights.
I think there's something to be said for a more in-depth dive into rhetorical styles, but I mostly keep it simple with a brief overview of ethos/logos/pathos. Our standards love to emphasize "task, purpose, and audience," so it helps them to have a little better background on when/where to use those basics.
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I would also argue that creating a monthly budget is algebra in its native habitat. As would be figuring out when you need to leave to arrive at a destination at a desired time. They are classic word problems hiding real world algebra.
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I think the value of teaching debate is as a hands-on way to get students to practice logic and critical thinking. “What are they trying to say? How are they manipulating the discourse? What logical fallacies are they employing?” All good for critical thinking skills that will pay off throughout one‘s life.
It is not the only way to teach these skills, but it is a way that works for some learning styles.
I think there's something to be said for a more in-depth dive into rhetorical styles, but I mostly keep it simple with a brief overview of ethos/logos/pathos. Our standards love to emphasize "task, purpose, and audience," so it helps them to have a little better background on when/where to use those basics.Hmm. I view rhetoric as distinct from coherent communication skills. I am perfectly capable of explaining how an integrated circuit communicates with another down to which bits in the datagram are set in what fashion to convey whether there is a cyclic redundancy check appended, but the reasons why this arrangement may be effective or useful are a different skill set.
That said, I parse words for a living and different rhetorical styles are something I have actually spent a few semesters studying.
That said, it is more important for me currently to speak engineer than it is to be able to parse the bill of rights.
Fair enough. Gopen has some great material on tailoring your words to your audience that was mandatory for freshmen and again for first year law students. Not sure how much it has percolated outside. I also am a fan of NLP for hard persuasion.
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Saw the ground?Someone dropped the ball, I'm planting trees today.
Which would be the first trees I've planted this year.
I've placed trees and I've picked them up from the nursery but I always had someone else to order the trees be planted.
It's been so long I don't know what to do without a saw in my hands but the boss was SUPER specific about not using a saw on them.
Bugs bunny and Wily E Coyote taught me sawign the ground is a bad idea.
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Bugs bunny and Wily E Coyote taught me sawign the ground is a bad idea.Saw the ground?Someone dropped the ball, I'm planting trees today.
Which would be the first trees I've planted this year.
I've placed trees and I've picked them up from the nursery but I always had someone else to order the trees be planted.
It's been so long I don't know what to do without a saw in my hands but the boss was SUPER specific about not using a saw on them.
Wait, what?!
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I still remember being yelled at in High School when I pointed out we needed to know how taxes worked moreso than the quadratic equation.
God, I hate math.
Thing is, I've never been at a school where a class on personal finance/financial literacy wasn't offered. We straight-up require it for graduation.
...I've just noticed that a good chunk of the seniors refuse to take it seriously, so idk what to tell you.
as with some other things, this is more due to the difference in our ages than anything else. Finance was an elective when I was in high school, and you had to be an amazing math student to get in. Anyone else asking was a moron who didn't know a²+b²=c².
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as with some other things, this is more due to the difference in our ages than anything else. Finance was an elective when I was in high school, and you had to be an amazing math student to get in. Anyone else asking was a moron who didn't know a²+b²=c².I still remember being yelled at in High School when I pointed out we needed to know how taxes worked moreso than the quadratic equation.
God, I hate math.
Thing is, I've never been at a school where a class on personal finance/financial literacy wasn't offered. We straight-up require it for graduation.
...I've just noticed that a good chunk of the seniors refuse to take it seriously, so idk what to tell you.
My school straight up did not offer it. We asked.
I would also argue that creating a monthly budget is algebra in its native habitat. As would be figuring out when you need to leave to arrive at a destination at a desired time. They are classic word problems hiding real world algebra.
My school straight up did not offer it. We asked.as with some other things, this is more due to the difference in our ages than anything else. Finance was an elective when I was in high school, and you had to be an amazing math student to get in. Anyone else asking was a moron who didn't know a²+b²=c².I still remember being yelled at in High School when I pointed out we needed to know how taxes worked moreso than the quadratic equation.
God, I hate math.
Thing is, I've never been at a school where a class on personal finance/financial literacy wasn't offered. We straight-up require it for graduation.
...I've just noticed that a good chunk of the seniors refuse to take it seriously, so idk what to tell you.
My school was simply too small. Not enough students would have taken it to justify offering it, and it's not like the district had the cash to bring in a dedicated economics teacher. Home finance skills were shoehorned into the Home Ec elective that was offered to 8th graders. Also the junior high math teacher took it on herself to teach the students how to write checks and balance a checkbook. Let me restate - the JUNIOR HIGH math teacher...teaching 6th graders one day a year how to manage a checkbook.
I think I learned the majority of my grammar through reading and imitation because I hated English class with a passion hotter than the sun. Mostly because nobody gave as much time consuming homework. Thankfully I developed an early love of reading.
Electives? You got electives?!
We had a set program in lyceum. Each of us had to pick a "fakultet" that was preparing for specific final exam subject - history, math, etc., but it was beyond the basics.
On the other hand we hadn't anything like Home Economics - it was assumed its something that every learns at home (buahahahahah!).
I think I learned the majority of my grammar through reading and imitation because I hated English class with a passion hotter than the sun. Mostly because nobody gave as much time consuming homework. Thankfully I developed an early love of reading.
I do not understand the words that are coming out of your mouth.
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I am pondering what made an individual in Publix's food R&D department think: "You know, we need to offer a Blood Orange & Jalapeno-flavored deli tea, but with only vague hints of orange flavor and just the grassiness & sulphur-y notes of jalapeno."
I mean, I'm still gonna drink the rest of the half gallon, but it's weird and disappointing.
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So...
None of your parents taught you about taxes?
I know from everyone here complaining that american taxes are apperantly very complex.
But here you generally learn from your parents the moment you get your first job (likely a summer job). And since on part time jobs you still pay full time taxes, you start by filing those taxes every year, to get a good chunk of money back.
I am pondering what made an individual in Publix's food R&D department think: "You know, we need to offer a Blood Orange & Jalapeno-flavored deli tea, but with only vague hints of orange flavor and just the grassiness & sulphur-y notes of jalapeno."
I mean, I'm still gonna drink the rest of the half gallon, but it's weird and disappointing.
thaf sounds like a miss...
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I wish other jobs had tenure besides academia. Could you imagine working retail knowing you couldn't get fired? It would go from the worst job to the absolute best.
"You want to return this smoothie blender? Broken, you say? Let's just plug it in and...yeah, it works. You quit your diet, didn't you? Nah, your three chins say it all, you lazy b*&#&."
Imagine the pure catharsis you'd have. Everyone would avoid middle aged clerks like the plague, because you know the young ones HAVE to treat you nicely, while the rest say everything they bottled up for a decade.
I'm pretty sure that's why they don't. >.>
Hahah no, that's obviously not true. It's about the money, like everything is.
But that's probably somewhere in the top ten reasons not.
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So...
None of your parents taught you about taxes?
Noooooooope.
I know from everyone here complaining that american taxes are apperantly very complex.
The main reason this is so is because there's an exception, specific form, loophole, and workaround for everything, like there always is in legalese minutiae, and the government in the US doesn't send you a pre-filled form to approve and send back like I've heard some European countries do. Because that would disincline people to use the for-profit tax preparation services like H&R Block, Intuit TurboTax, etc. and every time someone tries to do that those companies sue the IRS to stop them.
But here you generally learn from your parents the moment you get your first job (likely a summer job). And since on part time jobs you still pay full time taxes, you start by filing those taxes every year, to get a good chunk of money back.
If I'd gotten a job as a teenager maybe. But I never had a job before I got into college. And the extent of my learning about taxes from that point was my parents pointing me to H&R Block or TurboTax and telling me to contact them if I could qualify to use their free services, end of line.
I am pondering what made an individual in Publix's food R&D department think: "You know, we need to offer a Blood Orange & Jalapeno-flavored deli tea, but with only vague hints of orange flavor and just the grassiness & sulphur-y notes of jalapeno."
I mean, I'm still gonna drink the rest of the half gallon, but it's weird and disappointing.
What is deli tea?
So...
None of your parents taught you about taxes?I know from everyone here complaining that american taxes are apperantly very complex.
But here you generally learn from your parents the moment you get your first job (likely a summer job). And since on part time jobs you still pay full time taxes, you start by filing those taxes every year, to get a good chunk of money back.
Yes, I've been doing my own taxes since I was 16.
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I think I learned the majority of my grammar through reading and imitation because I hated English class with a passion hotter than the sun. Mostly because nobody gave as much time consuming homework. Thankfully I developed an early love of reading.I do not understand the words that are coming out of your mouth.
Reading gud. Homework bad. Me learn how speak/write by copying how people speak/write in book.
Having a father with an llm in taxes, yes i grew up knowing about taxes.
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What is deli tea?I am pondering what made an individual in Publix's food R&D department think: "You know, we need to offer a Blood Orange & Jalapeno-flavored deli tea, but with only vague hints of orange flavor and just the grassiness & sulphur-y notes of jalapeno."
I mean, I'm still gonna drink the rest of the half gallon, but it's weird and disappointing.
It's just brewed & chilled tea (orange pekoe) that Publix (Southern supermarket chain) sells in their in-store deli department to go with their delicious rotisserie chicken, their even better fried chicken, and their heavenly made-to-order sub sandwiches. I like it because 1) lazy, and b) it has less preservatives & additives than other brewed, name brand, non-hot tea. I mean, I like cups of hot tea, but not when it's 97°F and super humid outside.
It's just brewed & chilled tea (orange pekoe) that Publix (Southern supermarket chain) sells in their in-store deli department to go with their delicious rotisserie chicken, their even better fried chicken, and their heavenly made-to-order sub sandwiches. I like it because 1) lazy, and b) it has less preservatives & additives than other brewed, name brand, non-hot tea. I mean, I like cups of hot tea, but not when it's 97°F and super humid outside.What is deli tea?I am pondering what made an individual in Publix's food R&D department think: "You know, we need to offer a Blood Orange & Jalapeno-flavored deli tea, but with only vague hints of orange flavor and just the grassiness & sulphur-y notes of jalapeno."
I mean, I'm still gonna drink the rest of the half gallon, but it's weird and disappointing.
Do they still sell those good Portuguese rolls in the Publix deli? The perfect accompaniment to the roast chicken. My dad and I used to have that for dinner once a week.
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We introduced the kids to Monty Python and the Holy Grail tonight.
They didn't laugh. They just stared open-mouthed at the screen all the way through.
Time will tell whether it made any impression.
Or perhaps... Tim? Tim will tell.
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Publix is the best part of returning to Florida that isn't my family.
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So, we suffered through the first two episodes of Agents of Shield, and I know everyone says it gets waaaaaay better after the first couple of seasons, but... I don't think I can stomach that much of it.
GothBard put it really well: It's like a WB series from the 1990s. "Beverly S.H.I.E.L.D., 90210". Everyone's really pretty, and everyone has the emotional maturity of a 6-year-old, with all the accompanying issues that arise from such behavior.
Add to that that after watching shows with really good, "I don't know what's coming next," plots (Umbrella Academy only being the most recent of such shows), having a plot so predictable that as each character was introduced I could say, "And this character is going to do xxx" was pretty darned tiresome.
I know, I know. Everyone says Season 1 sucks and then it gets good.
But if I hate the characters and the writing now to the point that I find it unwatchable, does it really get that much better, or is it just not a show to my tastes?
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Happy days of birth to all the days of birth I missed.