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Hey I was just curious as to what to do with the Rune Giant Gargadros. My players found the body outside of the Kreeg Ogres Klan Hold. Laying in wait for thousand of years with a gentle repose spell holding him together. What could my characters do but Reincarnate a Nightmare, So with no real convincing argument against, I allowed it.
After rolling the Percentile the Race that comes of for this monstrous creature you may ask, A Halfling. They realized that they maybe in trouble when the Tiny body burst into flames and runes burned the flesh of the Tiny creature they wrought. The confused former Giant spouted some threats when he found that these creatures where gathering to defeat some sort of ancient lord. The tiny creature then proceeded to bull rush the mage off the mountain and run off in to the night sky.
I am trying to figure out what exact stats I want to give him as I am suppose to remove his base racial stats which would rid him of Str, Dex, and Con though retaining his Metal stats and Spell-like abilities, Though I wish to introduce him as a threat still in his miniscule form. I want to introduce him as a scout for Karzoug perhaps by introducing him as a leader for a rival Gang vartisan gang that the party's Monk Is currently trying to gain control of.
I want to know how much of the physical stats I should remove?
Here is the statblock I made up for Gargadros. Modify accordingly. ^____^
I'm just asking because I'm curious . . .
How does Gargadros know Common? I know it lists Common under languages for Rune Giants in the Bestiary, but that's for contemporary Rune Giants met by the PCs. Gargadros would never have heard Common spoken since it didn't exist when he was alive.
Again, this is more of a curiosity than anything else and had to ask! =)
I'm just asking because I'm curious . . .
How does Gargadros know Common? I know it lists Common under languages for Rune Giants in the Bestiary, but that's for contemporary Rune Giants met by the PCs. Gargadros would never have heard Common spoken since it didn't exist when he was alive.
Again, this is more of a curiosity than anything else and had to ask! =)
He doesn't know Common in my statblock. ^____^
so a halfling with what racial HD of a rune giant? if he didnt have class levels, wouldnt he just be a normal halfling now? He wouldnt HAVE spell like abilities since those abilities belong to rune giants, no?
I men without ANY class levels, he's just a halfling, he can't keep his rune giant abilities can he?
It depends on how you view things.
Far as I can tell, Gargadros gets all kinds of messed up in terms of his physical stats dropping all the way to Small size. Most of the racial abilities of halfings he would not get - most of the rune giant ones, especially being a Named, Unique Rune Giant of Aeons Past, I would say that he keeps.
bah, named blah blah titles this n that. Scramble me some eggs halfling, I dont care how old you are, get to work!
bah, named blah blah titles this n that. Scramble me some eggs halfling, I dont care how old you are, get to work!
Rune Hobbit grins evilly sure thing ... 'boss' ...
rune hobbit with an attitude because he thinks he has powers he doesn't...pffft, like a chihuahua who thinks he's a doberman.
rune hobbit with an attitude because he thinks he has powers he doesn't...pffft, like a chihuahua who thinks he's a doberman.
A rune hobbit with 20 racial hit dice ... at least a 13 Strength, 17 Dex, 14 Con, +6 natural armor bonus ... plus the class level ability array plus however many levels of Fighter. The rune powers are not racial, so those stay.
I'd be game for that stat block. ;)
I gave him relatively High str for a Halfling as I assume that rune giants are quite buff in general so I gave him a base of 15 (I didn't use the rules for decreasing str from size change and removing racial str as I believe that would leave him near negatives) and for every 4 hd pumped it up by one. This gives him enough Strength to provoke a bit of fear in melee, I took off about 10 points of con still leaving him with a decent bonus, increased the dex by 8 leaving him with Str 20, Dex 21, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 23, Cha 18.
I have let him retain the Rune Giant spell-like and supernatural abilities as these make him much more of a threat to the players in more than just a combat encounter. I had him Leave and make contact with Mukmorian when s halfling was escorted in by a cadre of his own men. After having a long discussion Gagardos left for sandpoint to finish what a poorly lead group of stone giants and a dragon could not do. Gargarados saunters through Sandpoint recovers a rock in a bag of holding then leaves. Depending on how long it takes for the PCs to defeat the stone Giants when Gargarados returns either he will be rewarded with new armor, weapon and belt or find a fractured Giant army being railed by Conna the wise into a better orgainzation, either way the results will likely be bad for the characters.
The party recently consulted with Conna the Wise, asking her about the Giants ancient slaver whom she believe Mormorian consorts with. She eventually told them about horrors many spans taller than Stone Giants, able to stride through the sky as if a dark terror, covered in mind shattering runes. The realization finally struck the PCs that they released a powerful enchantment based creature apparently able to enslave large amounts of giants and their concern began to grow.
I am personally planning on eventually using him to disrupt the PCs organizations at home. The PCs run various businesses such as a brothel, drug smuggling, a pawn shop. they also have deep connections to the theater. I am thinking of repeated suggestions to get the bard to consider moving his theater back to magnimar, Charming previous allied guards, altering government laws based on long term mass charm person to create protesters. charming previously bribed guards, suggesting a watch captain check certain drop points and other things such as that.
jeeezzzzzz poor giant!!
-players 1 - GM 0
dude they screw the best part of the RotRL
maybe some rune porwer grants him a wish or something... dude!!! what are you doing? this giant is maybe the most iconic monster in the PF Life!!!
but, as a halfling he´s a playable character!!!
gave him to one player!!!
or near the end, maybe mr-you-know-who can retur his original form and then... phew a lot of posibilities for fix this mess...
or simply the halfling at the time he see´s he new opportunities of a good life, maybe he´s choice to try a Class (Bard or something) and know one she halfling... its a good story.
Oh question: do you reward with the XP as if they´re kill this giant?
because, they did, actualy!!
jeeezzzzzz poor giant!!
-players 1 - GM 0dude they screw the best part of the RotRL
maybe some rune porwer grants him a wish or something... dude!!! what are you doing? this giant is maybe the most iconic monster in the PF Life!!!
but, as a halfling he´s a playable character!!!
gave him to one player!!!or near the end, maybe mr-you-know-who can retur his original form and then... phew a lot of posibilities for fix this mess...
or simply the halfling at the time he see´s he new opportunities of a good life, maybe he´s choice to try a Class (Bard or something) and know one she halfling... its a good story.
Oh question: do you reward with the XP as if they´re kill this giant?
because, they did, actualy!!
Well In a straight fight the Gargardos is much weaker, but he still has an Intelligence of 14 and is very wise and charismatic. The Lesser races of giants feared the Rune Giants for more than just their combat prowess, these Giants enslaved entire cultures just to provide themselves with silk lined armor of the highest quality. these creatures make lesser giants just leave an area not because they might die but because they can spend the rest of their lives toiling happily away in a mine or killing kinsman for nothing but a large chess game.
rune hobbit with an attitude because he thinks he has powers he doesn't...pffft, like a chihuahua who thinks he's a doberman.A rune hobbit with 20 racial hit dice ... at least a 13 Strength, 17 Dex, 14 Con, +6 natural armor bonus ... plus the class level ability array plus however many levels of Fighter. The rune powers are not racial, so those stay.
I'd be game for that stat block. ;)
+6 natural armor bonus is somehow NOT connected to his old body?
Pretty much almost everything connected to the main rune giant stat block would be gone - these are traits of rune giants, and it is a halfling now. Having said that, this guy was a *general* in Karzoug's armies, and almost certainly had class levels and PC level stats. So I guess you have to ask yourself... what kind of class levels, and how many, would a general of Karzoug have? He might even have a level or two of wizard... Thassilonian transmuter, of course!
in CotCT the legendary blue dragon general of Zon Kuthon, was apparently, just a blue dragon. No class levels.... albeit an ancient powerful blue dragon, but racial hit die and powers only.
Go figger
Huh. Well you'd almost have to give him a level in something - the 20 racial hit dice come with the body, and he would drop to 0 otherwise! :D
Edit: Actually, that's probably a good one for the Rules forum - what happens if a creature with no levels reincarnates into 0 HD race?
i say the players known the adventure and do it to create a mess in the adventure!!!
reward them with the corresponding xp for defeat the rune giant (reincarnate him as a halfling is an act which leads the pcs to the victory against this giant)
and then, as a GM you have to think what would this giant do after that!!
as i suggest, maybe he want to try a new life, maybe he acts as a giant in the halfling body. or maybe he return to his master and pray for solution!!
its a good move from your players, but if you still are even considerating the fact to face him against a party, take a look at this sentences:
-he is a halfling now
-he dont know how to move as a halfling
-he has no class levels
-he has no equipment or gold or loot or nothing at all
-you lost this encounter dude, admit it!!
in the other hand, i realy believes some of your players read the adventure before play it, that was a dirty move at all.
Gargarados only appears in the third book as a large dead body that quickly crumbles to ash if the PC removes a few thousand dollars of equipment from him. he is never mentioned again in the adventure path. He acts merely as a foreboding monument.
Thus even if the PCs have read adventure it would have just been to add extra confusing RP.
+6 natural armor bonus is somehow NOT connected to his old body?rune hobbit with an attitude because he thinks he has powers he doesn't...pffft, like a chihuahua who thinks he's a doberman.A rune hobbit with 20 racial hit dice ... at least a 13 Strength, 17 Dex, 14 Con, +6 natural armor bonus ... plus the class level ability array plus however many levels of Fighter. The rune powers are not racial, so those stay.
I'd be game for that stat block. ;)
I would spin this kind of reincarnation in one of two ways: it makes Gargadros a hobbit-ized version of himself (which the OP did) or he refuses to come back at all.
To go with that hobbit-ization, the racial hit dice and most or all of the rune abilities should remain. As a hobbit he shrinks from Gargantuan to Small, resulting in the above mentioned ability scores and natual armor bonus as a new baseline, to which the halfling, classed monster and a probable template are applied.
Reincarnate is not written with creatures with racial hit dice as targeted recipients. Depriving the target of those shouldn't happen, *especially* not with a paltry 4th level spell.
If it had come up im my game (it didn't), I would have had the spell fail. RAW, a permanent gentle repose spell effect would perfectly preserve the corpse forever, but it's been 10,000 years! As the encoutner describes it, as soon as the Sihedron medallion is removed, the body crumbles to dust.
I would have ruled that the giant's soul has been judged by Pharasma and can no longer be returned to its body.
I decided to let Gargadros keep his racial die mostly because other wise he would not be able to do almost anything and I wanted the PCs to fear Rune Giants later which would have been blunted by the a much weakened Gargadros.
I allowed him to keep his racial spell and spell-like abilities as the runes are fluffed as being a physical manifestation of a twisting of the soul.
Theologically Rune Giants worship Lissala whom either died many thousands of years ago or left the cosmos as the Golorians know of it. Phartisma may have already judge Garadros' soul but no afterlife would accept him nor would he accept any afterlife than Lissala's. Gargardros's soul with out any permanent resting place then the boneyard would gladly return to the world. also RP wise I thought that a Rune Giant introduced to the world, as a random at the time, creature would intrigue and concern the PCs and eventually lead to interesting RP, perhaps if they can find a way to turn, capture, or just interact with a Rune giant outside of pure combat encounters.
I have to ask how in the world did you allow a reincarnation when...
With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than 1 week before the casting of the spell and the subject's soul is free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
I'd say it just didn't work period - if you wanted to get cheeky about it and let it happen he runs off to the big K who has plenty of (wishes) ways to make him a giant again - and just add him as another boss/bad guy at the end.
I have to ask how in the world did you allow a reincarnation when...
With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than 1 week before the casting of the spell and the subject's soul is free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.I'd say it just didn't work period - if you wanted to get cheeky about it and let it happen he runs off to the big K who has plenty of (wishes) ways to make him a giant again - and just add him as another boss/bad guy at the end.
Gentle Repose takes care of that - if anything, the remains should not have become dust at all. He is "still juicy"...
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Gentle Repose takes care of that - if anything, the remains should not have become dust at all. He is "still juicy"...I have to ask how in the world did you allow a reincarnation when...
With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than 1 week before the casting of the spell and the subject's soul is free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.I'd say it just didn't work period - if you wanted to get cheeky about it and let it happen he runs off to the big K who has plenty of (wishes) ways to make him a giant again - and just add him as another boss/bad guy at the end.
Changing the emphasis in the about quote from reincarnate, I probably wouldn't allow it to work based on the amount of time lapsed versus the rune giant soul's willingness to return. After that much time (10,000-ish years?), I doubt the should would be interested in returning.
-Skeld
Gentle Repose takes care of keeping the body fresh - but reincarnation doesn't say the body has to be in any kind of shape - it doesn't even say it needs a body - it just needs the death to be within a week.
It's a time restriction not a body restriction.
So long as some small portion of the creature's body still exists
Reincarnation works on a fingernail (based on the wording above) - the benefits of the spell are that it works with almost nothing - but the drawbacks are you get a new body.
It's the only 'raise' spell that requires so little until you get to Resurrection.
Resurrection only works for death within 10 years per caster level.
True Resurrection doesn't need the body but it's still 10 years per caster level.
I get you can 'dm fiat' it but the spells themselves wouldn't have worked outside of a wish or miracle (by RAW anyway).
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in CotCT the legendary blue dragon general of Zon Kuthon, was apparently, just a blue dragon. No class levels.... albeit an ancient powerful blue dragon, but racial hit die and powers only.
Go figger
Admittedly, Dragon advancement is different to pretty much every other creature, in that the always advance through racial hit dice, and increase in size and power along those lines. Other creatures can be advanced by hit die, but tend (especially if intelligent humanoids) to advance in class levels, which is probably what Gargados has done.
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Given:
With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than 1 week before the casting of the spell and ...
A possible solution is that the spell didn't work -- as intended. Something came back, but it wasn't the Rune Giant. So it can now be whatever you want -- stat it as you will. Whatever it was was confused and perhaps slightly mad when it came back--that would explain any differences from when the PCs saw it in the first encounter to whenever you bring it back. In the interim perhaps that halfling is having a Greatest American Hero-type adventure, trying to figure out what super powers the Runes give him. Except he pledges to use his old and new powers for evil, not good. And as he may credit/blame the PCs for bringing him back sounds like you might have a new recurring villian/nemesis.