Spellstrike info in today’s Paizo Live

[keftiu]

It’s confirmed to only use one attack roll, but involves some form of “recharging” - it sounds like you can’t use it every round.

Figured folks would want to know!

[HumbleGamer]

keftiu wrote:

It’s confirmed to only use one attack roll, but involves some form of “recharging” - it sounds like you can’t use it every round.

Figured folks would want to know!

Really nice.

They simplified it ( though I expected it to be the same as eldritch shot, even if the latter is broken in terms of massive single target damage ). Hopefully, Eldritch shot might receive the same treatment in a future errata.

ps: Since it requires to only use one attack roll could it mean that they got indirectly rid of the exploit "message" + "spellstrike" somebody proposed during the playtest?

[vagrant-poet]

I wonder is recharge a reference to focus points.

Maybe it's a big flashy once a combat move now.

I'm okay with that tbh, I'd rather a cool moment ability, than an every turn ability as long as they have other cool magical abilities and things they do on other turns.

[Clinton Love]

It could work like an inverted Swashbuckler panache. Starting combat charged, spending that charge on spell strike then using some options to become charged again.

Interesting ways to recharge could be moving X distance away from your starting position, critting with a weapon, or getting crit yourself.

[HumbleGamer]

vagrant-poet wrote:

I wonder is recharge a reference to focus points.

I think it might be something which won't involve using a focus point, but I expect a new focus spell which would "ready" the spell strike as a free action ( to deal with the spellstrike limits, if the character wants to ).

Maybe it could be an action with the concentrate trait, to force the magus to play in a similar way

Round 1: Free action ( spellstrike ) + Cantrip ( 2 actions ) + strike

Round 2: Recharge ( conentrate trait ) + Strike + Strike

Round 3: See round 1

Obviously, this could be exploited by being quickened, since the spellstrike requires the magus to just strike with the charged weapon, but maybe at some point it wouldn't be an issue at all.

[WWHsmackdown]

Now all I need to know is if the spell is wasted on a miss. That's my only worry left. I'm fine with less spellstriking so long as I can land it with martial math. One of my first characters I made in pathbuilder was a two handed sword fighter with wizard dedication for utility stuff. I'm excited to recreate that character but more gishy and squishy (and actually play it).

[Angel Hunter D]

I thought I heard that you lose it on a miss.

[Gaulin]

Really depends on how it recharges. If it's something that spends a focus point, magus is still going to need to max their intelligence to hit outside of spellstrike with spells. Personally spell strike isn't that important to me, strike and casting isn't much different.

[Angel Hunter D]

I hope it's not focus, limiting the iconic action of the class that much seems like a bad idea - unless the Magus, as the consumate combat wizard, has a way to regain focus in combat.

[WatersLethe]

My wild guess: a return of the arcane pool in a simplified form, that you spend to spell strike and maybe one or two other things, and recharges one point every time you cast one spell and make one strike, forcing you to use both cantrips and weapons outside of spellstrike

[Kyrone]

I posted this on discord of my take.

"1 roll instead of 2" works like the Eldritch Shot from the Eldritch Archer archetype, that probably means that it only work with spells attack then.

"need to recharge" the ability not being at will, means that probably have a little more power on it, so it likely have some action compression on it as well (2 actions instead of 3). The recharge might be either some kind of "reload" where you have to spend an action to be able to use again or time based recharge. I think that action based recharge might be more likely (imagine reverse panache, that you do the finisher first), the subclasses might define how the recharge works.

[AnimatedPaper]

WatersLethe wrote:

My wild guess: a return of the arcane pool in a simplified form, that you spend to spell strike and maybe one or two other things, and recharges one point every time you cast one spell and make one strike, forcing you to use both cantrips and weapons outside of spellstrike

That might combine in interesting ways with Bespell weapon, where you can spend your pool to power that rather than a spell slot directly.

[richienvh]

Really liked that they went with a single roll. It was my main issue with the ability.

A couple of things from what Jason said.

- He does not mention that you lose the spell, only says that you lose the action. Could be that he was being vague, but could also mean that there is a way to hold the charge.

- Now this is speculation, but I don't think the recharge every now and then necessarily means it's a focus spell. I think it'll be some kind of recharging mechanism. It could be a flat check at the end of your turn to see if the ability recharges, a one round cooldown, a 'panache'-like activity that has you refocusing, or even a 'reload' mechanism based on whether one's casting a level-spell or a cantrip...

If it is a focus spell, I hope we go the Oracle route and have the Magus start with a 2 point Focus pool or that the Magus gets a way to refocus based on their Syntheses.

Overall I've positive expectations.

[Lightdroplet]

I really hope the recharge isn't something excessive like requiring a Focus point, or a ten minute rest: it would feel terrible to only be able to use your core feature once a fight and have nothing but normal Strikes and cantrips (i.e. worse Strikes) for the rest of the fight.

[The-Magic-Sword]

We just don't know, but personally, I really like the focus mechanic and feel like it would be a good fit-- it would give a better power budget to the ability, and add more room for other stuff, the Magus shouldn't be a complete one trick pony in combat, so low level Maguses using Spellstrike 1-3 times per encounter (depending on level) could be cool, as a big bursty finishing move.

Then again, lets wait to see the final state of the class, a lot of different things were in flux as of the analysis. So I don't think there's one right answer to these questions, depending on exactly how everything was overhauled.

For instance, did we get the class feature Martial Casting variants? Did we get mechanics to fill a turn-to-turn niche? What are the paths even like now?

[Unicore]

It would be a shame if it only works with spell attack rolls. At the very least the need to double the amount of spell attack roll spells from spell slots if that is true.

[WWHsmackdown]

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

We just don't know, but personally, I really like the focus mechanic and feel like it would be a good fit-- it would give a better power budget to the ability, and add more room for other stuff, the Magus shouldn't be a complete one trick pony in combat, so low level Maguses using Spellstrike 1-3 times per encounter (depending on level) could be cool, as a big bursty finishing move.

Then again, lets wait to see the final state of the class, a lot of different things were in flux as of the analysis. So I don't think there's one right answer to these questions, depending on exactly how everything was overhauled.

For instance, did we get the class feature Martial Casting variants? Did we get mechanics to fill a turn-to-turn niche? What are the paths even like now?

If it is focus it would probably be 1 spellstrike a combat. If you have 2 focus points then you could spellstrike twice once a day. And that would pretty much be the deal throughout tier 1 and most of tier 2...the majority of most campaigns. I'm hoping it's more of an action cost to recharge or a round or two recharge. Nerf it accordingly, but I wouldn't want it to be once a combat for the entirety of an adventure.

[vagrant-poet]

WWHsmackdown wrote:

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

We just don't know, but personally, I really like the focus mechanic and feel like it would be a good fit-- it would give a better power budget to the ability, and add more room for other stuff, the Magus shouldn't be a complete one trick pony in combat, so low level Maguses using Spellstrike 1-3 times per encounter (depending on level) could be cool, as a big bursty finishing move.

Then again, lets wait to see the final state of the class, a lot of different things were in flux as of the analysis. So I don't think there's one right answer to these questions, depending on exactly how everything was overhauled.

For instance, did we get the class feature Martial Casting variants? Did we get mechanics to fill a turn-to-turn niche? What are the paths even like now?

If it is focus it would probably be 1 spellstrike a combat. If you have 2 focus points then you could spellstrike twice once a day. And that would pretty much be the deal throughout tier 1 and most of tier 2...the majority of most campaigns. I'm hoping it's more of an action cost to recharge or a round or two recharge. Nerf it accordingly, but I wouldn't want it to be once a combat for the entirety of an adventure.

If it only costs a focus to use from a spellslot, but is free with cantrips that's probably okay with only up to 4 spell slots a day anyway.

[WWHsmackdown]

vagrant-poet wrote:

WWHsmackdown wrote:

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

We just don't know, but personally, I really like the focus mechanic and feel like it would be a good fit-- it would give a better power budget to the ability, and add more room for other stuff, the Magus shouldn't be a complete one trick pony in combat, so low level Maguses using Spellstrike 1-3 times per encounter (depending on level) could be cool, as a big bursty finishing move.

Then again, lets wait to see the final state of the class, a lot of different things were in flux as of the analysis. So I don't think there's one right answer to these questions, depending on exactly how everything was overhauled.

For instance, did we get the class feature Martial Casting variants? Did we get mechanics to fill a turn-to-turn niche? What are the paths even like now?

If it is focus it would probably be 1 spellstrike a combat. If you have 2 focus points then you could spellstrike twice once a day. And that would pretty much be the deal throughout tier 1 and most of tier 2...the majority of most campaigns. I'm hoping it's more of an action cost to recharge or a round or two recharge. Nerf it accordingly, but I wouldn't want it to be once a combat for the entirety of an adventure.

If it only costs a focus to use from a spellslot, but is free with cantrips that's probably okay with only up to 4 spell slots a day anyway.

I'd like that. Take off a number of catrip dice if spamming that is problematic, idc. I just want the magus to do it's thing

[Travelling Sasha]

Unicore wrote:

It would be a shame if it only works with spell attack rolls. At the very least the need to double the amount of spell attack roll spells from spell slots if that is true.

Mhm, I agree. Right out of my head and without considering many repercussions, I think that an 1-strike spellstrike that works with both spell attack rolls and spells that require saving throws could work without being too powerful, especially with some kind of recharge routine or a limitation.

And maybe, as to not invalidate the Eldritch Archer and its eldritch shot, have the Magus archetype offer a spell attack roll-only version of Spellstrike instead of the real deal? Hm, I don’t know.

[Proven]

I'd assume you'd lose the spell on a miss, or you'd lose the spell after a time limit if you miss more than once like in the playtest. It's probably meant more for using cantrips and using a spell slot just adds larger risk for larger potential reward, but needing to use a Hero Point or True Strike to hedge your bets. Hopefully Magus still gets to use martial proficiency and potency runes as well, which helps even when Intelligence is its key ability.

To make it more distinct from the Eldritch Archer, I can see it working with save spells as well. Possibly attack roll spells only need one d20 by the player, but a save spell still needs a d20 save from the enemy, however by default you may make the enemy have one level of success worse. Well, maybe that's too strong without being a high level feat.

[Romão98]

I'm glad to see that they change it. No more of two rolls for one powerful strike!

[Arachnofiend]

Maybe it could be charged by casting a non-spellstrike spell. So for example you spellstrike on your first turn, then on your second turn you True Strike which recharges you and you can spellstrike off of that.

[Angel Hunter D]

Ugh, back to True Strike :
spam already?

[graystone]

Angel Hunter D wrote:

Ugh, back to True Strike :

spam already?

I know... I was hoping to not see it after they said it was a roll. *sigh*

[Arachnofiend]

Angel Hunter D wrote:

Ugh, back to True Strike :

spam already?

True Strike was just an example but if you want to whine that's your right I guess. With my idea casting Haste or an aoe spell or anything else would also get you your charge back.

[Gaulin]

I do remember devs saying that they wanted to get away from relying on true strike. But if anything, making spellstrike a more limited thing and going off one roll would mean true strike should be even more important? Maybe there's something in the spell that straight up disallows it, or maybe since you aren't doing it every turn it's not seen as true strike spam. In my eyes in seems true strike might be even more important now.

[graystone]

Gaulin wrote:

I do remember devs saying that they wanted to get away from relying on true strike. But if anything, making spellstrike a more limited thing and going off one roll would mean true strike should be even more important? Maybe there's something in the spell that straight up disallows it, or maybe since you aren't doing it every turn it's not seen as true strike spam. In my eyes in seems true strike might be even more important now.

We don't know how many actions spellstrike is. If it's 3 actions for a spellstrike + spell then there isn't room to cast truestrike.

[Unicore]

If spell strike moved into the Eldritch archer style 3 action activity, I think Magi are going to be incredibly boring to play. The ranged one will just be an eldritch archer, and the 2 hander will be Dead on Arrival with no movement abilities. At least it won't be something you can do every round I guess? And instead of Truestrike, every Magi will on spend hero points on making their striking spell land. It doesn't really fix anything to make it 3 actions.

I am much rather hoping it looks very similar to the playtest, only you only roll one time for spell attack roll spells, and saving throw spells otherwise work pretty much the same as the playtest (where you can hold the charge and not use the spell until the next round, and a critical hit on the attack would move the saving throw effect down a tier). There really is nothing else you can do with saving throw spells because if you made it one attack roll to determine the effect of the spell, it would be way overturned and NPC Magi would be the ultimate PC assassins, since players couldn't use hero points to counter critical effects.

There are few enough spell attack roll spell slot spells, and they generally are not that amazing if they are limited to either their own spell range or the range of their weapon, which ever is lower, that it wont be game breaking.

[graystone]

Unicore wrote:

If spell strike moved into the Eldritch archer style 3 action activity, I think Magi are going to be incredibly boring to play. The ranged one will just be an eldritch archer, and the 2 hander will be Dead on Arrival with no movement abilities. At least it won't be something you can do every round I guess? And instead of Truestrike, every Magi will on spend hero points on making their striking spell land. It doesn't really fix anything to make it 3 actions.

It fixes true strike crit-fishing spam and I'd take that as a HUGE win. And if they wish to use hero points on that instead of saves and/or avoiding death than I say have at it. ;)

Unicore wrote:

I am much rather hoping it looks very similar to the playtest

Quite honestly, I hope it's changed quite a bit from the playtest. I'd love to see more spells available and some way to prevent true strike spam/abuse like making it a fortune affect. I found the playtest version pretty unfun so the more it's like the playtest, the less I'll like it. True Strike/hero point + spellstrike is what sounds "incredibly boring to play".

[kripdenn]

I'd hope spellstrike won't require a focus point otherwise the magus will always have to decide between using spellstrike or any other focus spell they get now or in future books.

[richienvh]

I don’t think there’s any indication that Magi will not be able to hold their charges or that their mechanic will be a copy of the Eldritch Archer’s.

I mean, there wouldn’t be any point in bringing in the whole recharge idea if they were just making a melee Eldritch Archer. This would invalidate the Archetype and bring other issues into the game. I think EA will stay as is.

From what we’ve seen from the playtest analysis and Jason’s spoiler, they were intent on avoiding crit fishing, True Strike spamming and ‘only one way to play this’ mechanics. I don’t feel they would ditch the playtest version’s versatility for something that was a repeatable mechanic.

His comment only shows us there will be one roll instead of two, which is great. I don’t think many favored two rolls over a single roll.

I don’t know, but I think we’ll see an elegant, never seen before recharge mechanic rather than a focus spell. They already refrained from the two rolls to amp the class’ playability.

Part of me wishes Jason had read Spell Strike rather than the index, but I guess we’ll have to try to glimpse it at next Paizo Live or Paizocon.

[Davido1000]

I think a recharge system similar to Panache that allows for a more powerful spell strike mechanic is the best bet. I want the magus to have a lot more combat depth and i don't really want it to be "spell strike spam" the class that it was in 1e.

[Temperans]

It can't be spellstrike spam if they are getting much fewer spell slots with no way to regain spell slots. Unless they changed that part from the playtest.

[HumbleGamer]

Since spellstrike also works with cantrips, it can be spellstrike spam all day long.

Being able to merge a cantrips with your main attack ( as currently can also do the eldritch archer ) leads to a very high damage ( compared to any 2x strike ) with a decent crit fishing.

The other issue ( because the fact that either spellstrike and eldritch shot are too good given them a single roll as well as the possibility to spam them every round is imo an issue ) is that classes would be then tied to a static routine ( hello mr swashbuckler! ), unable to use different stuff in terms of feats, actions ( attacks, interactions, etc... ) and so on.

The recharge part could really lead to a perk not available all rounds, and this would be really nice. And hopefully, there would be an errata for the eldritch archer too ( for the same reason ).

Even a rotation like Spellstrike and the next round Electric Arc + Strike would be more interesting than 5 consecutive spellstrikes for 5 rounds ( slide casting provided ). Like being tied to to Acrobatics/SpecializationSkill + Strike ( or another skill check if the first one failed ) + Finisher for 5 consecutive rounds.

Leaving apart that they are forced to invest 2 skills out of 3 without any choice.

[Angel Hunter D]

What? It's been shown that strike+cantrip is weaker than 2 strikes. It's not very high damage, it's just consistent.

[HumbleGamer]

Angel Hunter D wrote:

What? It's been shown that strike+cantrip is weaker than 2 strikes. It's not very high damage, it's just consistent.

Wasn't that with the 2 rolls?

Confronting 2 lvl 5 characters:

Magus: 2d12 ( striking rune ) + 4 ( str ) +3d6 ( telekinetic projectile ) +4 ( int ) = 17+4+12+4 = 37 damage ( and high chance to crit both of them ).

Combatant: 2d12+4 and assuming that also a MAP -5 would hit, another 2d12+4 = 14+4 + 14+4= 36.

Damage would be more or less equal, if also the second attack lands.

I see really no real confrontation between the two of them.

[WWHsmackdown]

HumbleGamer wrote:

Angel Hunter D wrote:

What? It's been shown that strike+cantrip is weaker than 2 strikes. It's not very high damage, it's just consistent.

Wasn't that with the 2 rolls?

Confronting 2 lvl 5 characters:

Magus: 2d12 ( striking rune ) + 4 ( str ) +3d6 ( telekinetic projectile ) +4 ( int ) = 17+4+12+4 = 37 damage ( and high chance to crit both of them ).

Combatant: 2d12+4 and assuming that also a MAP -5 would hit, another 2d12+4 = 14+4 + 14+4= 36.

Damage would be more or less equal, if also the second attack lands.

I see really no real confrontation between the two of them.

Plus the two swinging martial has another chance to do something if that first swing whiffs. The magus might be out of luck depending on the needs of the turn or how many actions spellstrike is on release. A nova as strong as two strikes with a recharge between turns seems fine. The nova that would actually bristle hairs is going to be limited to four slots that require half your class feats to supplement with additional wizard dedication spells. Seems fine

[HumbleGamer]

WWHsmackdown wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

Angel Hunter D wrote:

What? It's been shown that strike+cantrip is weaker than 2 strikes. It's not very high damage, it's just consistent.

Wasn't that with the 2 rolls?

Confronting 2 lvl 5 characters:

Magus: 2d12 ( striking rune ) + 4 ( str ) +3d6 ( telekinetic projectile ) +4 ( int ) = 17+4+12+4 = 37 damage ( and high chance to crit both of them ).

Combatant: 2d12+4 and assuming that also a MAP -5 would hit, another 2d12+4 = 14+4 + 14+4= 36.

Damage would be more or less equal, if also the second attack lands.

I see really no real confrontation between the two of them.

Plus the two swinging martial has another chance to do something if that first swing whiffs. The magus might be out of luck depending on the needs of the turn or how many actions spellstrike is on release. A nova as strong as two strikes with a recharge between turns seems fine. The nova that would actually bristle hairs is going to be limited to four slots that require half your class feats to supplement with additional wizard dedication spells. Seems fine

I doubt that a wizard dedication might do something useful.

By lvl 12 you are going to have a single lvl 4 spell.
Cute.

Better go with cantrips and save your feats for something different.

4 big hits per day are totally fine ( and by lvl 14 you will get the haste focus spell which cost 1 action ), and cantrips will do the rest.

as for martial characters, they can do whatever they want with their third one. The odds that it could land ( or crit ) will be always lower than the magus spellstrike.

There are some combinations which could do though ( a fighter with power attack + furious focus using 3 actions might be close to the magus cantrip damage )

[WWHsmackdown]

HumbleGamer wrote:

WWHsmackdown wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

Angel Hunter D wrote:

What? It's been shown that strike+cantrip is weaker than 2 strikes. It's not very high damage, it's just consistent.

Wasn't that with the 2 rolls?

Confronting 2 lvl 5 characters:

Magus: 2d12 ( striking rune ) + 4 ( str ) +3d6 ( telekinetic projectile ) +4 ( int ) = 17+4+12+4 = 37 damage ( and high chance to crit both of them ).

Combatant: 2d12+4 and assuming that also a MAP -5 would hit, another 2d12+4 = 14+4 + 14+4= 36.

Damage would be more or less equal, if also the second attack lands.

I see really no real confrontation between the two of them.

Plus the two swinging martial has another chance to do something if that first swing whiffs. The magus might be out of luck depending on the needs of the turn or how many actions spellstrike is on release. A nova as strong as two strikes with a recharge between turns seems fine. The nova that would actually bristle hairs is going to be limited to four slots that require half your class feats to supplement with additional wizard dedication spells. Seems fine

I doubt that a wizard dedication might do something useful.

By lvl 12 you are going to have a single lvl 4 spell.
Cute.

Better go with cantrips and save your feats for something different.

4 big hits per day are totally fine ( and by lvl 14 you will get the haste focus spell which cost 1 action ), and cantrips will do the rest.

as for martial characters, they can do whatever they want with their third one. The odds that it could land ( or crit ) will be always lower than the magus spellstrike.

There are some combinations which could do though ( a fighter with power attack + furious focus using 3 actions might be close to the magus cantrip damage )

Fair point. I'll probably still go full breadth casting into wizard dedication, but I want lots of slots for utility. I say that now but on release the magus might have lvls chock full of primo choices. We'll see. My gut tells I'll want those slots for jumps, long striders, mirror image, or anything else I usually put on martials dedicated caster

[HumbleGamer]

The martial feat to get utility spells was really cool imo ( it's also level 6 iirc, which means it sticks perfectly with dedication + basic spellcasting + bredth ).

Also, I am really curious about the ring of wizardry.
Whether if it's going to work when ythe magus slots improve ( for example 2 lvl 5 and 2lvl 6 slots per day ) or not.

By lvl 13 being able to have 4 lvl 4 slots + 2 lvl 3 slots ( considering the wizard dedication ) in addition to your magus slots would be really cool ( I'd me more intrigued in investing in the wizard dedication, if the magus wouldn't be able to use them on its own, if I'd know that the ring would be available for sure ).

[AnimatedPaper]

HumbleGamer wrote:

The martial feat to get utility spells was really cool imo ( it's also level 6 iirc, which means it sticks perfectly with dedication + basic spellcasting + bredth ).

It’s also going to be part of the magus chassis at 7th level, so I doubt that feat will still exist. Maybe for the summoner.

[graystone]

HumbleGamer wrote:

4 big hits per day are totally fine ( and by lvl 14 you will get the haste focus spell which cost 1 action ), and cantrips will do the rest.

With no buffs or utility in a day? Sounds lame to me... :P

[HumbleGamer]

graystone wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

4 big hits per day are totally fine ( and by lvl 14 you will get the haste focus spell which cost 1 action ), and cantrips will do the rest.

With no buffs or utility in a day? Sounds lame to me... :P

Well, it's a martial class after all ( let the true spellcasters buff you :d ).

The alternative would have been something like the warpriest.

it doesn't seem bad to me ( armor proficiency progression as a fighter, which helps for 1/5 of the journey. 4 lvls out of 20 ).

[graystone]

HumbleGamer wrote:

it doesn't seem bad to me

IMO, some people say the same about the alchemist...

[HumbleGamer]

graystone wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

it doesn't seem bad to me

IMO, some people say the same about the alchemist...

Man, I'd love for the alchemist to be good as a magus.

Even the one with the playtest spellstrike!

Let's do this!

[graystone]

HumbleGamer wrote:

Man, I'd love for the alchemist to be good as a magus.

2 of the three subclasses played worse than the alchemist for me. Only the 2 handed version got up to alchemist levels and that's only because of message spam for temp hp. I didn't find the 4 slot casting very fun as, for me, those slots competed with where for my buffs, utility and attacks: I'm someone that even at high level has uses for my lower level slots [and NOT true strikes]. So, I'm hoping a recharge means that we can kiss 4 slot casting goodbye and never look back.

[HumbleGamer]

graystone wrote:

So, I'm hoping a recharge means that we can kiss 4 slot casting goodbye and never look back.

Maybe they'll think about something different ( being entirely focus based, as many proposed, could be an alternative ), but given how they got rid of hyrbrids ( warpriest and wild druid ) with this 2e, I do not expect stuff like:

- 2 spells per level
- 3 spells per level BUT no lvl 10 spell
- 3 spell per level but 1 lvl behind a pure spellcaster

Magus and summoner won't be what they used to in 1e, and I guess we all know this.

[graystone]

HumbleGamer wrote:

graystone wrote:

So, I'm hoping a recharge means that we can kiss 4 slot casting goodbye and never look back.

Maybe they'll think about something different ( being entirely focus based, as many proposed, could be an alternative ), but given how they got rid of hyrbrids ( warpriest and wild druid ) with this 2e, I do not expect stuff like:

- 2 spells per level
- 3 spells per level BUT no lvl 10 spell
- 3 spell per level but 1 lvl behind a pure spellcaster

Magus and summoner won't be what they used to in 1e, and I guess we all know this.

Summoners IMO seem like a good fit for focus based [and maybe a summoning font] while I'd be fine with the options you gave for the magus or even 2/level and no 10th. We'll have to see: I'm sure whatever they do will be an improvement even is it's not to my liking.

[Temperans]

A magus who can't self buff is no magus. Just a pale imitation. The entire "oh just spend a feat for more spells" was a pure feat tax on what should be part of regular magus. It is a feat tax on what should be a regular summoner.

Who ever says magus is "a martial class" has no idea what a magus should be. They were literally one of the most magical classes.