Ok, I have read the stealth ruling, so a few questions. besides darkness and fog, what else can I use to make stealth checks so I can spell snipe. Most importantly I am looking for other means of stealthing other than invis and G invis. secondly if I leave the (thing) that offered me concealment, do I automatically lose stealth?
Ok, I have read the stealth ruling, so a few questions. besides darkness and fog, what else can I use to make stealth checks so I can spell snipe. Most importantly I am looking for other means of stealthing other than invis and G invis. secondly if I leave the (thing) that offered me concealment, do I automatically lose stealth?
Which stealth ruling? There's a lot of back and forth on what you can or can't do with it
besides darkness and fog, what else can I use to make stealth checks so I can spell snipe.
I don't think you can spell snipe. You need to speak in a loud clear voice, so the dc to know you're there is 0 and the dc to know exactly where you are is 20.
Darkness, fog, invisibility (if your spell is healing buffing or summoning) greater invisibility, a druid with natural spell can blend in to some animal critters or simply sit in someone's cape healing them.. nothing else comes to mind.
Most importantly I am looking for other means of stealthing other than invis and G invis. secondly if I leave the (thing) that offered me concealment, do I automatically lose stealth?
Depends on where you come out and who's looking. If you come out of the fog into darkness or shadow in front of a human, you can still stealth. If you pop out in "shadow" to a human and an elf is looking at you, he sees you (cause that's not shadowy to someone with low light vision), and if you come out in front of a dwarf or someone else with darkvision, you're hosed. You need cover or concealment to hide.
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besides darkness and fog, what else can I use to make stealth checks so I can spell snipe.I don't think you can spell snipe. You need to speak in a loud clear voice, so the dc to know you're there is 0 and the dc to know exactly where you are is 20.
Can you cite a page number or hyperlink? I was under the impression you have to speak clearly, but the volume wasn't all that important. Do wizards really have to shout MAGIC MISSILE in a booming voice every time they cast, or can they say it, you know, like a normal person, or maybe even whisper it?
I thought that, as long as there's some actual vocalization, and what's said is clear and recognizable if you know what to look for, the spell works. Kind of puts a damper (READ: drags out to the back yard and shoots) every Arcane Trickster in existence, otherwise.
From the RAW - Any ranged attack blows your steath, but if the target is already unaware of you and you are more than 10 away you immediatly re-roll stealth to remain hidden with a -20 on the check (core rules 106).
So even if you're as silent as twanging a bow, you lose your stealth bonus to the enemy's perception DC and immediatly re-roll stealth at -20 (then add other factors, like distance, darnkess, etc. as usual) to see what the new DC is for the enemy know where the shot came from. Whether that DC starts off as quiet as a bow twang, or as loud as normal conversation (DC0 to hear details) or even 'sound of combat' (DC-10) is a DM call, I think.
besides darkness and fog, what else can I use to make stealth checks so I can spell snipe.I don't think you can spell snipe. You need to speak in a loud clear voice, so the dc to know you're there is 0 and the dc to know exactly where you are is 20.Can you cite a page number or hyperlink? I was under the impression you have to speak clearly, but the volume wasn't all that important. Do wizards really have to shout MAGIC MISSILE in a booming voice every time they cast, or can they say it, you know, like a normal person, or maybe even whisper it?
I thought that, as long as there's some actual vocalization, and what's said is clear and recognizable if you know what to look for, the spell works. Kind of puts a damper (READ: drags out to the back yard and shoots) every Arcane Trickster in existence, otherwise.
well as far as I can tell, Improved invisibility will grant sneak attacks even if the target can hear you and that is not too difficult for an Arcane trickster to come by. There has also been some discussion about displacement, but I am not sure if it was ever resolved.
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Can you cite a page number or hyperlink? I was under the impression you have to speak clearly, but the volume wasn't all that important. Do wizards really have to shout MAGIC MISSILE in a booming voice every time they cast, or can they say it, you know, like a normal person, or maybe even whisper it?I thought that, as long as there's some actual vocalization, and what's said is clear and recognizable if you know what to look for, the spell works. Kind of puts a damper (READ: drags out to the back yard and shoots) every Arcane Trickster in existence, otherwise.
Pg. 213 PFRPG Core Rulebook
Under Verbal"you must be able to speak in a strong voice."
The specific words are a "firm voice" and "strong" nothing about loud. I believe it is hinting at mumbling doesnt count.
I am well aware of greater invis. and the penalties to snipe. and the vanish spell, and the fact that they will be able to hear me. But as long as I am stealthed by any means hey are denied their dex thus I ca spell snipe, and I have the ability to do it from more than 30 ft so i can max my close range. I just need help figureing out ways I can get a stealth check, such as fog and dakness because they grant cover and concealment which gives a check. I am assuming interposing hand (bixby's) which grants +4 cover, is full cover thus I can't sneak attack them even with shadowstrike. I just need clever ways to get myself stealth besides invis. because my GM will quickly find ways to negate my invis. but other was will keep him thinking.
per the PFRPG
"If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast."
"Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to allow you to use Stealth. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Stealth check while people are aware of you."
"Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
Special: If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Stealth checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Stealth checks if you're moving."
Thank you again for the discussion and help.
Now in your case, the requirement of cover/concealment has been failed so you become observed by the potential observers that you have failed on this requirement just as you would become observed by them for failing the opposed roll.
-James
That is what I am trying to figure out James, is once I leave my cover after I have stealthed and they opposed are they immediately allowed another check, or do I have to do something "Ie. cast a spell" to draw their attention, which will also make me unstealthed anyway?
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I don't personally see any difference to sniping with a bow or a spell. I know Paizo (can't remember which rep, and not digging through 100's of posts to find it again) mentioned they intentionally left stealth rules vague because there are a lot of factors involved in an individual stealth check. So, GMs and players have to use uncommon sense to what does and does not apply.
Yea, 'sniping' on p106 draws no distinction between spells and other ranges attacks, and the charts under perception are specifically called "guidelines".
I know I'd consider "a strong voice" as at least equivelent to "hearing the details of a conversation" (DC0), so sniping with a spell would be at least base DC0,+ re-roll at -20 + modifyers for distance and favorable/unfavorable conditions.
What stealth allows one to do is REMAIN unseen, but it has requirements beyond success in an opposed skill roll.
Correct.
This analysis is focused on Hide in Plain Sight, but hopefully is clear about stealth rules in general.