This is a discussion board for the world building of my new Homebrew campaign. I know this forum is for PBP discussion, but it seemed like the best place to put it.
If others see this thread and have any input or cool ideas, you may feel free to comment, but for the most part this is for my players.
As we are starting off 15-20 years later from where the last campaign ended, and your old characters being nobles to the reborn flying city of Phoenix, I want you guys to help with building the city and what you want out of it. Remember, you have 15-20 years worth of stuff to work with here, so this can obviously go beyond just what buildings there are and such, It gives you guys the ability to make a short history and even npc ideas for the city. I would like you guys to put some work into this, and make the city your own as much as it is mine as the dm. The nice thing about this, you will understand the world and culture better by doing this and will make connecting your characters alot easier as well.
Also, anything you want to post about the game, whether it be suggesting house rules, themes or ect. The earlier we get it on the table, the better. Heck, you guys can even start working on backgrounds and character concepts for your new characters if you want.
Anyway, speak your minds!
To get the ball rolling...
Stats will be determined at the first session, including character creation. If randomly generated, I need to be able to see the roll/draw.
One of the following stat generation methods... (let me know your opinion on these)
1.)DM's Choice:Two Card Draw: Two suits of cards 4-9 are shuffled, and then two cards are drawn. Repeat this, leaving out the pulled cards until all the cards are drawn. The sum of the pairs of cards are your stats, you may place them as you wish.
2.)15 point buy: You know this.
3.)DM's Least favorite: 4d6 drop the lowest: You know this. However, I think I have had my fill of rolling stats...
possible other rules in association...
Hero points: If you do not like the stats outcome, you may scrap the stats and buy a redo for x amount of your starting hero points, assuming the hero point system is used.
Heroic Array: If you do not like your Stats, you can choose the heroic array instead. (15,14,13,12,10,8)
1.) Standard. This means that you get what you roll. No roll if under half, or if it is a one. If heropoints are in play, you may buy a reroll by spending a hero point, and take the better of the two rolls.
2.)Average. The character gains half of their hit die plus 1/2 a hit point (rounded down). So, for example, a Barbarian would have 12 hp at 1st level, 18.5 hp at 2nd level (rounded down as 18) and at 3rd level 25hp (12 +6.5 +6.5). A wizard would have 6 hp at 1st level, 9.5 hp at 2nd level (rounded down as 9) and at 3rd level 13hp (6 +3.5 +3.5).
3.)Above Average: The character gains their hit die - 2. So, for example, a Barbarian would have 12 hp at 1st level, 22 hp at 2nd level and at 3rd level 32hp (12 +10 +10). A Wizard would have 6 hp at 1st level, 10 hp at 2nd level and at 3rd level 14hp (6 +4 +4).
4.)1d6+n: All classes roll a d6 for hit die, and add the difference at the end. So, for example, a Barbarian would have 12 hp at 1st level, 1d6+18 hp at 2nd level and at 3rd level 2d6+24hp (12, +1d6+6, +1d6+6). A wizard would have 6 hp at 1st level, 1d6+6 hp at 2nd level and at 3rd level 2d6+6hp (6, +1d6+0, +1d6+0).
Average is my favorite, above average may be too much. 1d6 is interesting. let me know what you think...
Hey its...Thadeus...
Anyway, I like the card draw and the 4d6 (drop lowest) for stats, personally. Card draw is balanced but runs the risk of really fudging someones stats to where theyre really good at one thing and terrible at the rest (something i know too much about). As for hp, I like the average method.
Im not sure what my next character is going to be but i want to play a bard which may occur in some other one shot. I dont want to be committed to bard for Everlasting...I dont think...I will have to look at what classes will be available for our next outing on Phoenix to make a definite decision.
thanks for joining in Thadeus!
The card draw is an interesting beast... the nice thing about it is that it kinda guarantees that you will have average-ish stats. every time a stat is generated, the chances for better or worse stats change. if you pull 2 9's off the bat, that's an 18 in one stat, but then 18 and 17 are no longer available. If you pull 2 4's thats an 8, but you cannot get a 8 or 9 again. If anything, I think it places the chances of being between 11 and 15 highest. I've only used it once but I'd really like to try it again for this game.
The problem with rolling, as always, is that you can get some really uber or really shitty stats, as you chance is the same for every roll. point buy is simple, but a bit boring and allows min maxing too much...
Average hp is my favorite too. Nicest thing about it is that I don't have to bother watching rolls, and it is easy to figure out hp if someone is unavailable.
However, I have been wanting to use wound and vitality points for a while now, but I think this would make too much work for me in the end. I'm going to try to keep things a bit simpler this time around...
I just don't want two 9s and two 17s, because then I will probably become what I feared, however, you do get 'even' stats out of the deal.(even meaning equal lows as there are highs) I'm, more or less, indifferent to the way we do stats as long as we don't have someone with starting stats like Zanon was at the beginning of the campaign... and then we all increased our stats to his level...relatively. I think I actually started with the worst rolls so like I said I don't care what method we choose as long as everyone starts out with a close number total.
Barbus Renwald aka Barbus Hawk reporting in, SIR! Thus far I actually agree with Thadeus 100% on the rules. Card draw is my favorite of the stat options and average HP is a good way to go.
In regards to beginning to work with the improvements and construnction of the city, both physically and culturally, a good place to start would be our DM posting a link to the map of the city (or least one to the module that the city comes from).
As far as culture, I think the first thing that we need to decide is how open our borders are going to be to new citizens. The amount of space available on the city is limited, so I think that we need some form of limiting the people in the city. I believe that we should require that the people wantying to stay within the city walls must be able to improve the city in some way. So they must either have a skill or profession that can enhance us. Second that we should allow the children of those that we grant citizenship to automatically become citizens as well. However they should be required to acquire a profession that will aid the sity by the time they come of age.
Third, we should decide if we plan to establish landing sites that are populated by people that are citizens of the nation, but are not living in the flying city itself. If we do, I think these people should be of a lower caste than those that live in the city itself. I think we should establish such standrardized replensihment sites, and this would be a good way to allow people to enter our nation, but allow us to control the city population. The city can become an incentive for these people to work towards.
Thadeus, If your first 4 card pairs got you 17.17.9.9. then the only cards left are the 6's and 7s, meaning your last two stats would be two 13s, or a 12 and 14. Even if you got two 13's, 17.17.13.13.9.9 its not a bad set of stats. What was it that you feared again? I know we talked about it but I've just been out of it lately...
here are some sample stats using the card draw... they are more powerful than I though... The average total of the bonuses added together equaled a 7, which is pretty powerful...
15.13.13.9.13.15 (+6)
15.17.12.11.11.12 (+7)
15.17.14.10.11.11 (+7)
17.11.13.10.16.13 (+8)
16.15.17.11.8.11 (+7)
17.17.13.13.9.9 (+6) (above example)
17.17.14.12.9.9 (+7) (above example)
15.14.13.12.10.8 (+5)(Standard array for comparison)
14.18.14.13.18.10 (+13) (Zanen's stats for comparison)
16.16.16.12.11.14 (+12) (Thadeus's stats for comparison)
I think with the card draw, your gonna hit the mark between +6-+8 every time. Which is pretty good. Its a good way to randomize stats and not have a character like zanen with godly stats, or a character with such low stats he can't even perform his job.
Barbus, I posted a link to the map in the first post. If it doesn't work I can email you it. I don't have a link to the module, so you will have to go with memory and I can answer any questions from there.
What do you mean, a profession to aid the city? If you guys do something along those lines, that will have to be defined. I know that Dar'nas'ion planed on opening an Inn/Magic item shoppe, Thadeus wanted to turn the crater into an arena, Valvar wanted to make parks and start up his "dragon druids," and you said you wanted the Needle and globe tower for some reason I cannot remember.
Remember you all have 15-20 years of time to put work into this city.
Although I won't allow the city to become a flying citadel of death, I will allow improvements that make sense, if you guys can agree and work out the ideas within reason. Dar'nas'ion mentioned extra-dementional spaces to help with the size problem. It sounds like a ridiculously expensive and overkill solution, if it could even work. Still a city full of closet sized houses that opened up into normal homes would be pretty bad ass...
anyway keep the discussion going, and if you guys have any cool ideas lets hear them!
What I was refering to with Zanen was the stats from the start f his were that bonus and everyone else floated around +10/11 and then we bumped them up to meet par. But thats moot now. As a side point I think a bonus between 6 and 8 is a great start.
As for city improvements, id like to see the tech people be on board and some sort of weaponry for defense more than attacking. (I assumed we wouldnt be an Imperial Death Star...I hope not) And I agree with Barbus as well with the decision to let people on that have good professions(either for trade or to benefit the city) Such as, a furniture crafter would be accepted in order to trade chairs, as well as, possible make the chairs for Dar's inn, ect.
I would also like to see staked of farm land where we go to get our food and to trade these exotic fruits. That could serve as great revenue for the city.
I also have an idea where we take the map and modify from whoever posts it previously and 'add our improvements' possible using MS Paint.
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1jfvWLYNmshM2RiZDhhZGEtM2I3NS00N2YwLWJkOT ktOWJmYzEyNzZlMTYy&hl=en&authkey=CK_SgNEI
(^thats the file I slapped together you all should be able to edit it...coulnt hyperlink it apparently...)
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1jfvWLYNmshM2RiZDhhZGEtM2I3NS00N2Yw LWJkOTktOWJmYzEyNzZlMTYy&hl=en&authkey=CK_SgNEI
Also, Dar'nas'ion was talking about making the temple, #15, into the inn. That is going to but up or even possibly be in the way of the arena. So you might want to talk to him about that. Maybe you guys could combine the arena and inn?
Also, I think instead of Phoenix's ashes, a better name might be Fenix down.
Yeah I talked to Dar'nas'ion about it. I think the idea is to go and drink then go to the coliseum without causing a drunken ruckus on the way there-Heheheh.
Also, I think instead of Phoenix's ashes, a better name might be Fenix down.
Hahahaha, like I said working title. The Red Fenix Down I'll have something cool in time.
Druids, Druids everywhere... (Valvar/Kamezel here)
First off, i like the card draw system for stats; i think it delivers relatively fair and predictable numbers. There is the rare occasion of minmaxing occurring as Thadeus said, but i think it limits the possibility for crippling stats better than the other methods. Also Average HP worked well for me in the past, and it keeps things easy which am all for.
I think Thadeus might be on to something with the landing sites as well. The castle is mobile, and as such can directly rule over many areas at once. Such towns become recharge stations for the castle, and provide a vast number more resources to the castle than a stationary kingdom would. The castle also becomes a means by which to transport large quantities of heavy goods that would be difficult or not cost efficient to transport via horse and buggy. The splendor of the flying city castle will also provide a sense of wonder, as Barbus mentioned, which will help us recruit the best of the best craftsmen and soldiers to defend the city as they will work hard to be able to be picked to live within the city on a permanent basis. This will hopefully increase the quality of goods directly available to the city as well as boost its economy and provide more powerful equipment to those who can afford it.
I also have several ideas on how to make the city better. First off i do believe that any city without park areas is unappealing. People are going to want a place to relax and have a place to let their children play. Space will be an issue and if people can’t have personal yards, then parks will be essential to everyday life for anyone who owns a pet or child.
That said, there are also other ways plants and trees can be useful within out flying city, such as the use of tree stride to transport messages instantly between different areas. With the wood shape spell, trees can be reshaped into living furniture (i was picturing book cases for a library, but am not sure why, or even a spiral stair case that wraps around a tree to take someone to the second story of a building. probably unnecessary, but it just sounded fun), or possibly used to construct entire buildings out of living trees. They are also pretty to look at and provide fresh air that many crowded cities lack.
I also would like to place the idea of Hallows on the table (doesn't have to be a tree filled grove, although it doesn't not have to be either). 5th level Druid spell Hallow costs 1000g +1000g/lvl of spell affect (if one is chosen to be included) it lasts for 1 year/casting(can be recasted in the same place), covers an area of a 40' radius, and has 2 major effects. 1st, the area is granted magic circle vs. evil, this prevents summoned demons/other evil things and such from entering, and grants all within it the effects of protection vs. evil as the spell. 2nd, a spell effect can be tied to it (secondary gold cost of 1000g/spell lvl) which can be used in many practical applications. eg: zone of truth in a court room prevents people from bearing false testimony (unless they have a good will save/spell resistance) or discern lies can be used to tell if they are lying (bypasses will saves and spell resistance, but doesn’t tell what the truth really is). The silence effect could be used in a library, tongues in a market square to facilitate foreign trade, ect... i also am not sure how much gold is going to matter for any of these things in the long run because there will be plenty of opportunity for our characters to obtain gold outside of our playing
And finally, i think that it would be cool to have a reasonably sized grove set aside somewhere which could serve as a druid circle meeting/meditation grounds and is separate for the parks that people let their pets poop and children play in (or in often cases pets play and children poop, but that is really beside the point).
Alot of Interesting Ideas Valvar! thanks for joining us, now we wait for Dar'nas'ion
Also Just in case people like a good read:
D&D: Calibrating Your Expectations
Gandalf was only a fifth level magic user
Both of these articles helped shape e6 and why I wanted to use it in the first campaign. Eventhough we are likely not to use e6 in this game, both are still an interesting read.
Ok It looks like we will be using the following house rules:
Although, I'm going to make a tiny little change to make it even simpler...
Average. The character gains half of their hit die plus 1. So, for example, a Barbarian would have 12 hp at 1st level, 19 hp at 2nd level and at 3rd level 26hp (12 +7 +7). A wizard would have 6 hp at 1st level, 10 hp at 2nd level and at 3rd level 14hp (6 +4 +4).
This is what pathfinder society uses, and frankly 1 hp every other level is not going to break the game!
I don't plan to add alot of house rules, but I will post some more potential house rules and rule clarifications as I think about things more. Keep working on your city and I will answer questions accordingly.
Valvar, I like where you are going with some of your ideas. The hall of justice with zone of truth or discern lies is a great idea. Also, I completely agree that a city without parks is a terrible idea, so we should definitely do that.
So long as the druids that maintain the grove are from the newer generation, likely trained by Valvar, and do not want to destory technology, I am on board with that. Such druids can help to promote the growth of agricultural products. But I don't want to risk uprisings or attacks on the tech users that we plan to allow into the city. So old school druids will be a bad idea.
In regards to the landing sites that I suggested, I think that we should establish these zones in regions that can specialize in given production styles. Examples being farm lands in plains, quarries in the mountains, sea ports on well...the sea.
I do think that we should limit the farming on the city to the amount that is necessary to sustain the city between stops at the sites. By setting up many sites, we will be able to restock the city without depleting the stores of any location.
I think that we should establish an academy. One that sepcializes in both techonology and magic. We have a city that accepts all types of people, and is not limited by the idea that ancient technology is evil. Such a place is prime ground for fostering new ideas and ways of doing things. Plus is would give Valvar, Dar'nas'ion and Zoltan something to do that we keep them from causing too much trouble, as well as the ability to warp the mind of the young...what am I thinking.
One thing to think about with different landing sites are defense and stability. What do these people do when you leave? what stops [insert monster here] from destroying the people at these places? who leads these people when your not there? just some thoughts. Also, I'm not sure your going to have been able to fly much before the next campaign has started. Your fix of the city was more of a quick fix and is not safe. When you start adding a population to that... I'm going off target here...
Also, I might do some "in game" kind of stuff from time to time to simulate events that are out of your guy's influence. For example, there are a number of NPC nobles that are involved, such as the king, Zoltan, the flying ape leader, the other three original citizens... I was going to wait a little bit before starting, but what they heck...
'One day, during one of the many council meetings held to further the city, a letter that had arrived is brought to attention to the council at large:'
To the Leadership of Phoenix City,
We are very excited to hear of the new county being founded from Tower, and we congratulate you on such a historic event! As educators of the arcane arts, we strive to teach those whom show progress the right path and to guide these gifted children into proper learned individuals whom can use their gifts to better the world. We would like to extend our services to you and propose that you give us the opportunity to build a new Academy of Arcane Arts in your new country. Please let us know if you are interested and what you might like to see. We currently are sending a representative to speak with you on this proposal and we hope we can work out a sensible arrangement within your new city. If you have any questions, please let us know, either buy post or when our representative meets you.
Sincerely,
Lu'ku'star (Secretary)
Rane Lightbringer (Vice Presedent)
Kael Firefist (President)
Apparently outsiders are quite interested in your new city... Obviously you guys can choose to take them up on their offer, refuse them, or ask more questions...
Chris has a point about our ability to 'colonize'. We're stuck repairing our city for a while. However, look how far Tower has come in 20 years. They have covered quite a bit of ground. I think we will have a few re fueling stations but none that are going to be too far from the main country of tower. I'd rather the colonies we have to be protected than spread too thinly. We should avoid what Napoleon did with his army and not scatter them to fast to start. But like I said if we can increase that population and protect it then we should be A-O.K.
Troll, Fae'ri, Dracomorph (in progress)
I thought I would contribute my next set of suggetions in picture form. Obviously not all of the city has been planned, and the ideas don't even need to be kept, but I thought this might be a place to start. Also, before you say anything Valvar, yes, we can put in more parks. I was just using the one on the map as a starting point, and so that I did not forget that we intended to have them.
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B2I8DFzmEbMeZDBmYjZlZWQtNTNiMy00NjhhLWEyOG QtNTFhMTgxNDJiMzk0&hl=en&authkey=CN6V_50L
Also, I think that we should plan to accept the academy, because it would be nice to have a teaching system that we already know works, being transplanted into the school. We should plan to find out how many professors that they intend to provide, or if they expect us to provide them. We should insist that they help build the school, but then allow them to have a say in how it will be built and what appearance it will take as an incentive. Also, we will need to make sure that they will not have a problem with the fact that we will be allowing tech in the country. If they do, then we can always find our own professors, and run our own school. Also, we will need to find out what they want to recieve as compensation. Do they intend to own the building, pay taxes, pay their own professors or expect us to pay them? These are all questions that we need to work out with them.
I would like to bring up the town guard, they should be trained in future weapons, as well as, the melee ones. I also think smaller parks could be spread around buildings that are too destroyed to begin repairs.
Also, is a warehouse district going to be necessary? It seems we will already be pressed for space. I can see a possible weapon depot near the Dragon Knight/town guard location. A bank in this area may also be a good idea. I think having a bank will really establish our country as the 'real deal'. We will print our own currency that is on par with tower's(to avoid the whole crossover exchange thing), yet distinguishable as our own.
As a side note, the 'Red Phoenix Inn' is Dar'nas'ion's gig. So he can call it whatever he pleases. Thadeus' main concern would be the Colosseum and the training of the guard. The Colosseum could be the training grounds for such guards. The Colosseum can also be used for performances such as a really awesome bard, ect.
Alright, Once the current campaign closes and I get a few more ducks in a row, I will have the rules set up for building your city. Luckily, there are kingdom building rules in one of the books, and I have been looking into that. Although I will be using these rules, I still encourage thinking outside of the box! Space will obviously be an issue, So I made a map for building onto your city once I have the rules ready, but I will post it to give you guys an idea of what your in for. I think it will be fun! Once the new campaign starts, I think I will let you guys "play" as your old character in regard to keeping up the city and running it.
Here is a sample sheet for your city building. This is an abstraction to determine space and stuff.
Most of these are no-brainers, still, I feel like being thorough in this campaign so let me know if their are any objections. Otherwise these are all going to the keep pile.
HR#3: PCs will be created in front of me. Usually the first session of the game will be devoted to this. I may allow exceptions to this rule after the game takes off to speed things along, but if I do, I will like the character a good deal before the next session to look it over. I will hold onto all character sheets.
HR#4 No level training will be required when a PC gains a level. In order to take any prestige class that the party may learn about will require that the interested PC develop the background needed to qualify for the prestige class. In other words “fluff”.
HR#5: Anything in the Bestiary is not known to the PCs except information for those creatures that the PCs would have experience with: standard mounts (not hippogriffs and unicorns, for example), familiars, animal companions (for rangers and druids), and creatures that can be summoned using a PC’s spells.
HR#6: Be aware that any item given in the Core Book(s) is subject to weight, price, or other changes. And expect variations in the actual use of some items, as I may not like using everything stock from the Core Book, or economic situations could alter prices. If permanent changes are made, I will attempt to place them in the house rules section ASAP. A player that wants to take a prestige class should carefully consider the prerequisites and contact me to work out a way for the PC to somehow become aware of the PrC in an in game manner.
HR#7: When a PC levels up, they gain all benefits immediately that are not tied to Intelligence or Wisdom. Any ability that is tied to Intelligence or Wisdom requires 8 hours of rest during which time the character is reflecting on past events. This includes spellcasting abilities, the monk’s AC bonus, the number of uses of a class ability based on Int or Wis, and so on. After such reflection, those abilities are available. This 8 hours of rest overlaps with the 8 hours of rest that may be required for a spellcaster to prepare spells.
HR#8: Alignment; Character must have good in their alignment, or have special approval and a background with a reason why they are not. Evil will be auto rejected. This campaign is about heros, not villains. Characters that become evil through evil actions become NPC's. Characters that have their alignment altered through curses, trickery or such effect may play their evil characters for a certain amount of time, but at some point, the character becomes a NPC if the alignment in not returned to normal.
HR#9: Clarifications of Existing Spells/rules These are real rules that are either vague, we have gotten wrong in the past, or needed special attention. If anyone else has a rule or spell that htey want a clarification on post it on the forum and I/we will get it clarified.
1. Objects under the effect of a targeted spell that are then broken (Not the "broken" condition, mind)or otherwise rendered unable to perform their normal function cause the magical effect to terminate. For example, an arrow with a light spell on it works until it hits a creature (rendering it unusable) or until it is destroyed (such as after rolling the 50% chance for a bow shot that misses). The same applies to a stick with darkness cast on it, then broken into pieces; all pieces lose the darkness effect. For the examples of light and darkness, I suggest using rocks. And not limestone rocks.
2.Spells with verbal components must be spoken in a strong voice, this means no whispering incantations!
From PFCRB213:
Verbal (V): A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice. A silence spell or a gag spoils the incantation (and thus the spell). A spellcaster who has been deafened has a 20% chance of spoiling any spell with a verbal component that he tries to cast.
3. The Message spell has a verbal component but unlike other spells which must be cast in a “strong voice”, this spell can be cast by muttering under your breath. It is still affected by silence and the like.
4. Item creation feats allow metamagic’d spells to be stored within them. The “spell level” as described in the item creation feats is understood to mean the base spell level and any increase required by the metamagic feat, but this applies only to the required caster level and the spell cost. It does NOT apply to the spell’s save DC or spell resistance rolls, if any.
5.Enchantment spells are limited based on the level of the spell. A 1st-level spell is weak, and should be limited in what it can do. Charm person is NOT dominate person, nor is it even suggestion, even though that may be how some want to use it. These latter two spells have much more powerful uses and those uses should be reserved for those spells. If someone wants to command a charmed person, they should use the Intimidate skill; if they want to deceive a charmed person, they should use the Bluff skill; if they want secret information, they should use the Diplomacy skill.
6.Deathwatch is an emanation spell (meaning it doesn’t go through walls or around corners) and requires the recipient to be able to see the target creatures to determine their status (meaning line of sight and line of effect are required and creatures using Stealth to avoid detection may not be detected by this spell).
7.Spells with a descriptor are spells of that type when cast. For example, a spell with a Good descriptor is a spell of that type just as a spell with an Earth descriptor is a spell of that type. This can affect the ability of certain classes to use such spells. Note that casting a Good spell is a “good” act while casting an Evil spell is an “evil” act and may affect a creature’s alignment.
8.The spells color spray and rainbow pattern both work in total darkness and against creatures with darkvision. There is some interpretation involved as the spells don’t specifically say they produce light.
9.Spells that say they extend 10’ from the spellcaster don’t make sense for spellcasters who size is larger than the spell area. So such spells are collectively reworded to mean extend 10’ from the outside edge of the spellcaster’s space instead.
Troll, Fae'ri, Dracomorph (in progress)
What if you swapped Dracomorph with Charisma...just a suggestion, I don't know if any of your other races already have Charisma bonus because I don't have them. I feel the Intelligence in combination with the Dracomorphs stats almost forces you to make a spell caster if you want the ability bonus. At the same time, Int isn't bad for a rogue either...
Troll, Fae'ri, Dracomorph (in progress)What if you swapped Dracomorph with Charisma...just a suggestion, I don't know if any of your other races already have Charisma bonus because I don't have them. I feel the Intelligence in combination with the Dracomorphs stats almost forces you to make a spell caster if you want the ability bonus. At the same time, Int isn't bad for a rogue either...
Dwarf=Con
Elf=WisHuman=Choice
Troll=Str
Half-Elf=Cha
Fae'ri=Dex
Dracomorph=Int
The thing with dracomorph is their racial traits are more attacking focused and their ability increase is not, so it is a mixed bag. My goal is to have each race with one of the 6 abilities. Cha fits half-elf the best. If anything I might be ok with switching wisdom and int with elf. The reason There are no penalties is that I don't want someone to not make a certain type of character because they get a stat penalty. I love Troll Bards/wizards for example. thoughts everyone?
I was just saying that the potatoes don;t match the carrots. I mean that the ability doesn't match the race traits like all the other races, which is why its strange. Don't get me wrong after reading it, I like the race.
I don't mean to tear it apart...
The role playing of a Troll Bard is fun because its unexpected. But if you pair the Dracomorph with any class its going to work. So where's the role playing challenge?
Example: Dracomorph fighter, he bites his enemies that he is mad at. A Dracomorph wizard/sorcerer, casts spells through his dragon ways and according to color type.
Just 2 cents. But looking at it kinda makes me want to play one. It's different than other races which are stuck with abilities that go with there racial abilities, thus making the melee fighter Troll, or the ranged rogue Fae'ri, ect. But the Dracomorph gives you freedom like the human, without giving you all of it because you still have to take certain abilities, rather than choose. But the abilities are well worth a feat if you can make use of the Int bonus.
As a side note, could I get a link/message with the other races, I don't seem to have them :/
The other races have not been "made" yet, but that's because I'm going to use the core racial traits with the above ability adjustments instead of the normal. I may adjust a thing or two on them but as of right now basically core. I'm sorry I forgot to mention that.
And don't worry about picking things apart. That's why I gave you guys the link. So that they can be scrutinized.
One thing I want to do fore sure is that each stat is represented in one of the non human races.
What do you think I should incorporate as a role playing challenge for the dracomorph? Nothing is set in stone yet, so pour your heart out!
Ok, I'm trying to decided how I am going to do my next campaign, and before I go any farther, I want your guys opinions.
Should this be a "railroad" or a "Sandbox" campaign?
Railroading
A style of GMing in which the GM has only one specific plot line in mind, and forces the players to follow that plot regardless of whether they want to do so. From an analogy to a railroad, which constrains the train to one specific route.
Sandboxing
A style of GMing in which the GM Lets the players take their own initiative and places obstacles in front of them, allowing the PC's own goals and decisions to motivate them.
Both have their pro's and cons, any ideas?
After Looking at some stuff, I am thinking of running the "kingmaker" adventure path, or at the very least striping a large amount from it for use. I'm not sure how to incorporate the flying city into it at this moment, but it looks like it would be fun to run...
After Looking at some stuff, I am thinking of running the "kingmaker" adventure path, or at the very least striping a large amount from it for use. I'm not sure how to incorporate the flying city into it at this moment, but it looks like it would be fun to run...
I always liked that Everlasting was more sandbox than other campaigns. I feel an adventure path might railroad the Everlast-y-ness out of the campaign itself. We have done modules, but I have always enjoyed what happened between them and how they were tied to the overall storyline.
kingmaker is a sand-boxy adventure path, but i get your point.
I do like the sandbox method of gaming more, keeps you on your toes.
from what i read on the classes and what some other people commented on, i don’t think i have enough experience making things like that to really give much useful input, although if you’re having trouble bringing the classes down to being equal with humans, you could always throw something into the human race to bring it up, though that may just make things worse lol.
As for the city building ideas, I’m not sure about that academy, sounds like just more people looking to get their fingers into our pie. Having people who can use magic in the city will be undoubtedly useful when we need to get something done fast, like stone shaping a broken wall back together, or putting out a fire before it spreads, ect... however having people who can use magic means that now you’re making a city to which over 20% of the population is likely to have class levels, and that makes it more difficult to direct, even when they don’t have their own agenda.
Making our own academy would be another option; however that would mean that we are making a rival academy to this organization which may make it difficult to even attract students to begin with. Also it won’t carry the prestige that the standard magic universities would. (All of this being assumed that this is a school for arcane spell casting which limits possible in-house founders to Zoltan or Dar'nas'ion who are easily recognizable to the few people of our hometown, but not the whole country of tower in general)
I think that there would be a similar effect on trying to start a druid circle, however as a result of different issues. Valvar is listed as one of divine blood, and as such has a relatively high amount of prestige in most druids’ eyes, however most druids, even young and skeptical ones might have trouble abandoning their innate distrust of technology in order to become one of the founding druids for the dragon circle. Once a large enough population is reached however, the children of the founding druids and interested children of the city may be able to expand upon the framework set up by the founders. Each new disciple can be charged with the task of maintaining a small grove (or park) which will both help in their training and keep the city looking good essentially for free.
I do think that it would be a great idea to set up a few hallow areas, however, they should be very limited both as a result of cost and to keep the people of the city from feeling that magic is encroaching on their everyday lives. In the special cases such as having the discern lies in a place of law would be useful, it would give the people who are innocent the freedom to plead their case without fear of having their personal integrity put under scrupulation. It does not force them to say anything that they wouldn’t normally want to answer like a zone of truth would, and there is no save for the lier, so you don’t have to worry about high level characters simply making the save. The only thing that would need to be done is a means of detecting magic to prevent the misdirection spell, or whatever it is that swaps your aura with someone else. Someone who intended to wrong another or break the law may still chose to remain silent, or they may choose to let people know that they are lieing, but overall we probably don’t want them in our city if that’s the case and maybe their opinions of the hallow might not matter as much to us as a truthful honest persons.
Coliseum... great idea. I like it more and more as i think about it. We could combine the garrisons from the town guard with the coliseums, and save some space if we’re lucky. Having a place where the people can relax while watching horrendous bloodshed will pleasantly compliment the relaxing in the peaceful parks outside. This will give the people the excitement of battle and competition with the reality that they are at no real risk and are living happy peaceful lives. This will also give the town guard who i assume will double as gladiators if they are up to it, or vice versa, experience in fighting other humanoids as well as fighting monsters when it comes time to defend the city or an outpost... or simply cleaning out Dar'nas'ion's bags of holding :P druids may have mixed feelings about this in regards to wild animals, although perhaps getting a chance to watch the food fight back will provide more entertainment to a druids sense of humor than the average villager. Also, most "monsters" will not generate any sort of attachment to most druids as they often attack and kill druids as much as other settlements. (Only request is that if gnolls are gathered, that they be required to die as slowly and painfully as possible)
I don’t think that more than a handful of large parks are a necessity, though having one or two would be great in conjunction with several dozen courtyard size groves (maybe 10'/10' containing one or two small ornamental trees and a comfy wood or stone bench with various wild flowers growing around them, or perhaps even in raised planters of decorative stonework.) They will provide a break from city scenery without taking up too much space, and may possibly be included as part of the space for other buildings, while the Large parks provide the space the people will need to do park things (walk pets til they poop, watch children play with/eat said poop, feed already overweight pigeons popcorn, ect...
I seem to have forgotten the rest of my ideas/issues, so I’ll stop here and pick up again later. The post was getting pretty long anyhow.
Took a look at Barbus' map. Overall, i like it, have another version vie edited but wasn’t sure how to get it up. Basically took all the area that isn’t yet claimed and filled it in with park area, then began adding things as i thought of them.
Obviously sizing is going to be hard without a better understanding of the kingdom builder rules which i haven’t managed to review yet.
Whether they are useful or just flavorful here is a list of things that i think the city needs aside from what Neil already accounted for
The Drunken Dragon brewery (supplies beer and ale to the red phoenix or whatever dar names it)
Tipsy Troll Distillery (provides spirits and liquor)
Yuppie Elf Winery (same deal)
Public Bath house (yes, your smelly)
A large Forge (big enough to make replacement parts for the city as needed)
Statue pedestals for statues of the city founders in appropriate areas where they can be appreciated
An Embassy for Tower government officials and dealings (not rid of them yet)
Small courtyards throughout the various districts
An area for growing rare herbs and spices for trade (not going to have enough area to produce food for the city, but spices take up significantly less space and sell well in areas where they are rare)
I figured that park area could be used as filler in-between functional buildings like weapons and armor smiths, or alchemist's labs and magical goods traders. Basically build whatever you want and park goes wherever there’s nothing else.
I liked everything art said thus far. I want to bring up possible 'Investor Citizens' because we need money to repair a lot of this stuff. So the houses that aren't occupied by skilled craftsmen could be the people who are willing to put money into the city in hopes of getting some back through our market system (Don't ask me the specifics; I'm a troll).
I like the idea of trees and such between facilities, it will make the city look 'traditional' (drawing a blank on the word here... think of a university campus).
With the hallows, just make sure they dont force people in public to always tell the truth, thats just discomforting. Maybe the courthouse and a town center could have that spell on them....just a thought.
Everyone check your emails, I placed kingdom building rules in it so you have a guide.
I want to bring up possible 'Investor Citizens' because we need money to repair a lot of this stuff. So the houses that aren't occupied by skilled craftsmen could be the people who are willing to put money into the city in hopes of getting some back through our market system (Don't ask me the specifics; I'm a troll).
Actually, I was thinking that if you plan to recruit certain NPC's, they would give benefits towards buildings and stuff. For example, if Thadeus was an NPC, he might put forth a good amount of his own money towards building a coliseum, giving you a discount on the "Build Points" needed to make it. Building certain structures at certain locations in you city will have a discount due to what was originally there. I will probably also allow you all to liquidate some of your own wealth to fund your own personal projects. Once my current campaign has ended, I will try break out my final rules for this all, and your starting funds, and we can start with the official building if you'd like.
Due to Thadeus' strength, I saw two positions he could fill well: General and Warden. Just jumped out at me in the Kingbuilder link.
General = Stability
Warden = Loyalty
Barbus may want to look at Marshall, the whole organizing patrols and you add your Dex...nice....
I know you guys don't like the Tower Government, but here are your options with Tower and It's relation to your new nation...
Province You are a state of the government of tower.
Pros
A large stipend of BPs
May barrow a # of BPs, which must be payed back.
Protection
Cons
Strict regulations
Must pay a tax in Bps yearly
Must answer to a higher authority
Commonwealth You are partially owned by the country of tower.
Pros
May barrow a # of BPs, which must be payed back.
Protection
Cons
Regulations
Must pay a tax in Bps quarterly
Must answer to a higher authority. More leeway.
Allied Nation You are your own nation, however you must abide by truce laws
Pros
May barrow a # of BPs, which must be payed back with interest.
Minor Protection
Cons
Strict truce agreements
Must trade with Tower
Declaring pure independence means that Tower is just going to take your city, by force if they must. Having a flying city is too useful for a nation to have, and too much of a liability to let someone just take and do what they want with it. And as strong as your characters are, you do not have the backing or numbers to take on the entire nation of tower... not yet anyway... I know you guys don't like Tower government, but the animosity that happened between you and them was extremely situational and as much as you guys may disagree, you were all at the very least partly responsible for some of the bad events that that happened. Remember you were only treated rudely by a few NPCs, were locked up for half a day, and were given the task of defending against what you uncovered. You guys actually got off pretty easy by the "horrible" tower government.
If a group of guys from the USA found a flying city, flew back to the USA, loaded up a bunch of US Citizens and flew off to make their own new country, you know the US would put a stop to that quick.
Yeah, but how many nice people from tower did we meet?....Buckler? We saw Sachmoe but didn't talk to him or Kouji. The NPCs we interacted with were only ones of Tower we really talked to, besides the androids and, recently, the God of Light. Just sayin- There may be some hesitation.
Guys, I have to say that I actually agree with the almight DM on this one. Frankly, Tower was nice to us. We screwed up, caused the problem, and then lied to them by trying to conceal it. They told us fix it, and oh by the way, let us have an audience with Shield and provided us Bucler to help with the quest. I our treatment may not have seemed great at the time, but it was benevolent by normal standards.
In regards to Phoenix's relation to Tower, I understand where you are coming from DM, as far as going independent. I have been waiting for you to voice such, because there is no way Tower was going to let just have the city. In regards to the options, I think we should decide how much we wish to be controlled by Tower. I think province would be too close a relationship with Tower. I understand that more building points wouod be available, but there will be almost no freedom in how we wish to run the country. Commonwealh may work, but the question there is how controlling our rulers will be. Frankly, allied nation is probably the best option for both use and Tower. If we are in any closer relationship, Tower will have troubles, becuase they will be attempting to control a landthat can literally leave there ability to reach it. However, with an Allied Nation, Phoenix can provide its local control, but Tower is not trying to run the everyday workings. All either have to worry about is trade and truce agreements. I understand that such an option may lead to less building points, or borrowing with interest.
Also, in regards to railroad or sandbox, I think sandbox is more the way to go. The idea was bandied about at the end of the last session that our new characters could be colonists setting up a new location. I think this would be great idea, as it will let the characters get away from the shadows of our past characters. Also, using the kingdom building module as a basis allows us to actually run a country, and adventure within the sandbox.
Guys, I have to say that I actually agree with the almight DM on this one. Frankly, Tower was nice to us. We screwed up, caused the problem, and then lied to them by trying to conceal it. They told us fix it, and oh by the way, let us have an audience with Shield and provided us Bucler to help with the quest. I our treatment may not have seemed great at the time, but it was benevolent by normal standards.
I mean Shield was never really involved in the Tower government from what I understand, and she gave us the quest to go fix what we didn't do but what that weird image of Kale did (you know, summoning the whole Weapon ordeal).
I do think they were generous, but Thadeus' impression is that the people in the Tower government were rude. But that is only because of the ones we really interacted with.
I like Allied Nation, the only thing is its going to kick our BPs right in the Shaggoth. I agree with Barbus with the decision. I don't want Tower telling Phoenix how or what to do.
Problem is, Tower will had a hand at telling you what to do no mater what. That truce agreement will be very heavily skewed in tower favor. It will have less strict laws governing it, and alot more leeway that the other two options, but breaking the truce is much worse than breaking a regulation and being part of the tower nation. If you break a regulation, there will be an investigation, people get in trouble fined ect, the problem gets fixed. Breaking the truce could very well break out into war...
remember, even though the flying city is not a crucible of death and destruction, It is a huge potential threat as it is a potential boon in Towers eyes. It is unknown ancient technology, and tower's views on ancient technology is very "weapons of mass destruction." With good reason too...
Witch
Class Features
Hit Die: d8
Base Attack Bonus: 3/4
Saves: Will
Starting Wealth: 4d6 × 10 gp (average 140 gp)
Class Skills: The Witch’s class skills are Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all taken individually) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency Witches are proficient with all simple weapons, and light armor. Witches are also proficient with their divine focus if it is a weapon.
Spells: An witch casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell lists (see pages 226–229 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook). She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, an oracle must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a witch’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the witch’s Wisdom modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a witch can cast only a certain number of spells per day of each spell level. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table 2–5 (Oracle, APG). In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high wisdom score (see Table 1–3 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook).
Unlike other divine spellcasters, a witch’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A witch begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new oracle level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table 2–6 (Oracle, APG). Unlike spells per day, the number of spells an oracle knows is not affected by her Wisdom score; the numbers on Table 2–6 are fixed.
Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered oracle level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a witch can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows. In effect, the oracle loses the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. An oracle may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the level. She cannot swap any crest spells, nor can she swap any spells gained from her arcane study.
Unlike a cleric, a witch need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level.
Arcane Study: At 1st level, and every two levels after, a Witch learns a single spell off of the sorcerer/wizard spell list. If the spell is not on the witch’s spell list, the spell is learned one spell level higher. For example, if a witch learned fireball from the sorcerer/wizard list, the witch casts it as if it were a 4th level spell. The new spell must be of a level the witch can cast.
Magic Circle: A witch’s magic circle causes a burst that affects all creatures of the witch’s choosing in a 30-foot radius centered on the witch. Creatures that take damage from a magic circle effect receive a Reflex save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the witch's level + the witch's Intelligence modifier. Creatures healed by a magic circle cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A witch may create a magic circle a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. This is a swift action that is made as part of casting a spell granted by the witch’s Crest. A witch can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect. A witch must use her divine focus to cast the associated spell to use this ability, even if the spell does not require a divine focus. The type of magic circle that the witch can create is determined by the witches chosen domain.
Air Crest: The witch gains the air domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing takes 1d6 electricity damage, plus 1d6 points of damage for every two witch levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on).
Darkness Crest: The witch gains the Darkness domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing are dazzled for 1 round, plus an additional round for every two witch levels beyond 1st. (2 at 3rd, 3 at 5th, and so on). At 3rd level, the witch may choose to blind the targets of this circle instead. When using this ability to blind targets, the effect lasts for half the amount of time (rounded down). The affected creatures get a will save to negate this dazzling or blinding effect, plus an additional save every round they are still affected.
Death Crest: The witch gains the Death or the Repose domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing takes 1d6 damage, plus 1d6 points of damage for every two witch levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from this magic circle effect receive a Will save to halve the damage, instead of a reflex save. The witch can heal undead with this ability but must decide when using this ability to deal damage or to heal undead.
Earth Crest: The witch gains the earth domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing takes 1d6 acid damage, plus 1d6 points of damage for every two witch levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on).
Fate Crest: The witch gains the Luck domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing gains a +1 Luck bonus to any ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check for 1 round. This bonus increases by 1 for every two witch levels beyond 1st. (+2 at 3rd, +3 at 5th, and so on).
Fire Crest: The witch gains the fire domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing takes 1d6 Fire damage, plus 1d6 points of damage for every two witch levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on).
Life Crest: The witch gains the healing domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing heals 1d6 damage, plus 1d6 points of damage for every two witch levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). The witch cannot heal undead with this ability.
Light Crest: The witch gains the sun domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all undead creatures takes 1d6 damage, plus 1d6 points of damage for every two witch levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from this magic circle effect receive a Will save to halve the damage, instead of a reflex save. The witch’s divine focus glows with light as the light spell, in a thirty foot radius for an amount of rounds equal to the damage dealt.
Matter Crest: The witch gains the Artifice domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing gains a +1 circumstance bonus to damage rolls with any weapons for 1 round. This bonus increases by 1 for every four witch levels beyond 1st. (+2 at 5th, +3 at 9th, and so on). At 3rd level, this also grants a +1 circumstance bonus to attack rolls. This bonus increases by 1 for every four witch levels beyond 3rd. (+2 at 7th, +3 at 11th, and so on).
Mind Crest: The witch gains the Knowledge or Charm domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing are dazed for 1 round, plus an additional round for every two witch levels beyond 1st. (2 at 3rd, 3 at 5th, and so on). At 3rd level, the witch may choose to stun the targets of this circle instead. When using this ability to blind targets, the effect lasts for half the amount of time (rounded down). The affected creatures get a will save to negate this dazing or stunning effect, plus an additional save every round they are still affected.
Time Crest: The witch gains the Time domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing gains a +1 insight to ac for 1 round. This bonus increases by 1 for every four witch levels beyond 1st. (+2 at 5th, +3 at 9th, and so on). At 3rd level, this also grants a +1 insight bonus to reflex saves. This bonus increases by 1 for every four witch levels beyond 3rd. (+2 at 7th, +3 at 11th, and so on).
Water Crest: The witch gains the water domain. When using the witch’s magic circle ability, all creatures of the witches choosing takes 1d6 cold damage, plus 1d6 points of damage for every two witch levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on).
Some of those magic circles seem more powerful than others. Is that because of spell selection?
Some of those magic circles seem more powerful than others. Is that because of spell selection?
can you give me an example of some that are more powerful than others?
Some of those magic circles seem more powerful than others. Is that because of spell selection?can you give me an example of some that are more powerful than others?
Mainly the death crest compared to the life crest. You could combine Life and Light but then nothing opposes darkness :/.... The death crest has the ability to heal undead or hurt the living for damage that has no subtype (as in is not resistant like fire would be to a red dragon). As opposed to the light crest, which only hurts undead, and the life crest, which only heals allies.
Maybe for the Light crest you could do something that is like the darkness crest and the darkness crest could do something more like blindness/deafness. Light seems to 'dazzle' things more than darkness in my definition of dazzle. However, I have a bad habit of making up definitions D:
You make some good, points. Still alot to think about...
I think that the class is too powerful as it is currently constructed. d8, 3/4 attack, +4 skills, and the high number of spells is too many things. If the point of this class is to be the cleric of the game, then I can understand the higher hit dice, skills and attack, but then the number of spells per day should be decreased. Or you could leave the spells the same, and reduce tow of the other factors to make them a primary spellcaster that is more on par with the others. Just my thoughts.
So any idea what/who is going to run between my games? I know art said he might be willing to run.
So any idea what/who is going to run between my games? I know art said he might be willing to run.
I may be willing to run too
So any idea what/who is going to run between my games? I know art said he might be willing to run.I may be willing to run too
if we chose to run mine il just need a bit of warning so i can throw together some stuff, my campaign, however long it lasts will be sandbox style.
on the topic of your game tho, I think that My character would be best suited for either the high preist role, or the Marshal role. Dan may also be interested in High preist since he is now a life witch, and also has high wisdom.
High preist = stability
Marshal = Economy
flavor wise i see Valvar more likely to fit the Marshal role because he can more easily apply his druidyness when patrolling for brigands and bandits looking to attack traders on their was to pheonix.
however valvar has always been willing to put duty first, and if he is needed to "stabilize" he will stabilize. (as much as a druid CAN stabilize a group of people from tower)
I think that we should effectively look atwhat positions everyone can fill with their best stat and place them accordingly. Not sure whose gonna be the ruler, need someone with a pretty face, but the two best choices there from our group are barbus or thadeus... both of which would serve us better in physical based roles. Maybe the old king would be a good cchoice if he has high charisma.
So any idea what/who is going to run between my games? I know art said he might be willing to run.I may be willing to run tooif we chose to run mine il just need a bit of warning so i can throw together some stuff, my campaign, however long it lasts will be sandbox style.
on the topic of your game tho, I think that My character would be best suited for either the high preist role, or the Marshal role. Dan may also be interested in High preist since he is now a life witch, and also has high wisdom.
High preist = stability
Marshal = Economyflavor wise i see Valvar more likely to fit the Marshal role because he can more easily apply his druidyness when patrolling for brigands and bandits looking to attack traders on their was to pheonix.
however valvar has always been willing to put duty first, and if he is needed to "stabilize" he will stabilize. (as much as a druid CAN stabilize a group of people from tower)
I think that we should effectively look atwhat positions everyone can fill with their best stat and place them accordingly. Not sure whose gonna be the ruler, need someone with a pretty face, but the two best choices there from our group are barbus or thadeus... both of which would serve us better in physical based roles. Maybe the old king would be a good cchoice if he has high charisma.
Definitely the old king