Oh FFS. A single post from someone I've never heard of, and we are jumping up and down arguing about ethics. Flamebait and we all fell for it. The OP has a personal issue he wants to moan about, not a generalised one. Sheesh.
I'm curious about this particular attitude, one that I happen to see quite a bit on these forums in particular (as well as many others). How exactly does whether or not a post is from a poster "you've never heard of" invalidate the point of a post? Does being well known or popular cause one's posts to somehow matter more?
Ironically, I know quite a few politically liberal Christians who would strongly agree with Steven's conclusion. It may be helpful not to conflate religious orthodoxy and political conservatism even if the two overlap sometimes.You're absolutely correct -- my prejudices got the better of me. Please accept my apology.
By all means, I find you one of the more thoughtful posters in serious OTD threads, and I look forward to your input.
Oh FFS. A single post from someone I've never heard of, and we are jumping up and down arguing about ethics. Flamebait and we all fell for it. The OP has a personal issue he wants to moan about, not a generalised one. Sheesh.I'm curious about this particular attitude, one that I happen to see quite a bit on these forums in particular (as well as many others). How exactly does whether or not a post is from a poster "you've never heard of" invalidate the point of a post? Does being well known or popular cause one's posts to somehow matter more?
I can't presume to speak for Aubrey, but I would speculate that the attitude in question is probably blow back from sock puppetry in the past.
Valid question Kortz, but is this really the thread for it?
Valid question Kortz, but is this really the thread for it?Sorry, I thought it was silly question for a silly thread. Whoops.
What is this thread for again?
I think the OP was venting about being disrespected by a "friend", and got thread jacked.
RPG Superstar 2013
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Fascinating. Can anyone point to the part where I said "You just can't be a good person or respect your neighbor without being a Christian"?
Nope. A hallmark of incivility is when you are looking for a fight instead of looking to edify one another. Anyone who went off about me thinking Christians are perfect and atheists can't be good people at heart has failed to engage me in the talk. Some of you made poor assumptions and posted as a reaction. No one is helped by this.
And that should tell you something about your individual standards for civility. As I said, I accept not every will agree. Admit to yourselves that you didn't bother to get to know me before mischaracterizing my one little statement.
I wrote about a culture that separates itself increasingly from God, and I say the loss of civility and tolerance is not coincidental. I did not say, 'Atheists are bad people' or 'Christians perfectly live up to the high standard of the Bible' or any such thing. I said, as a culture, we suffer for our lack of faith and our distance from God. I am perfectly happy to engage anyone on that topic, so long as you're looking for a conversation, and not looking to put words in my mouth in order to set fire to your uncleverly crafted straw man. Such behavior is, in fact, uncivil.
Perhaps some of us can try again?
Fascinating. Can anyone point to the part where I said "You just can't be a good person or respect your neighbor without being a Christian"?
Nope. A hallmark of incivility is when you are looking for a fight instead of looking to edify one another. Anyone who went off about me thinking Christians are perfect and atheists can't be good people at heart has failed to engage me in the talk. Some of you made poor assumptions and posted as a reaction. No one is helped by this.
And that should tell you something about your individual standards for civility. As I said, I accept not every will agree. Admit to yourselves that you didn't bother to get to know me before mischaracterizing my one little statement.
I wrote about a culture that separates itself increasingly from God, and I say the loss of civility and tolerance is not coincidental. I did not say, 'Atheists are bad people' or 'Christians perfectly live up to the high standard of the Bible' or any such thing. I said, as a culture, we suffer for our lack of faith and our distance from God. I am perfectly happy to engage anyone on that topic, so long as you're looking for a conversation, and not looking to put words in my mouth in order to set fire to your uncleverly crafted straw man. Such behavior is, in fact, uncivil.
Perhaps some of us can try again?
Actually, I am christian, but I see where the problem with viewing society as hampered because it does not cleave with christian/monothestic values comes from. In many ways the argument does put words into ones mouth, just not the ones you may think it does- if a society is held back in some way because of a lack of faith, it is those who lack said faith that are a part of the problem. Said people can still hold down jobs, pay taxes, and be a vital part of society of course, but when it comes to faith, they will always be lacking. I understand where you are coming from as well and I agree by and large, but the argument could have been put forth better.
Perhaps that would be a topic for another thread?
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And if we don't respect one another as God's creation, whom He loves and has plans for, then we can't show each other that respect.
Right here, you are pretty much saying that an atheist is incapable of showing respect towards others. After all, why should I respect you as a (to me) fictional character's creation? Why is it not enough just for me to respect you as a fellow human being, irregardless of magical old men who live in the sky?
And if we don't respect one another as God's creation, whom He loves and has plans for, then we can't show each other that respect.Right here, you are pretty much saying that an atheist is incapable of showing respect towards others. After all, why should I respect you as a (to me) fictional character's creation? Why is it not enough just for me to respect you as a fellow human being, irregardless of magical old men who live in the sky?
As much as I dislike Kthulhu's final commentary here, I agree with is assessment of your statement. While I don't believe you meant that, it's a very easy conclusion to make from that statement.
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I wrote about a culture that separates itself increasingly from God, and I say the loss of civility and tolerance is not coincidental. I did not say, 'Atheists are bad people' or 'Christians perfectly live up to the high standard of the Bible'
By "high standard of the Bible" do you mean slavery and stoning people to death and murdering the children of enemies?
Or do you mean New Testament stuff like going into the Temple and whipping the moneychangers and overturning their tables?
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Fascinating. Can anyone point to the part where I said "You just can't be a good person or respect your neighbor without being a Christian"?
Nope. A hallmark of incivility is when you are looking for a fight instead of looking to edify one another. Anyone who went off about me thinking Christians are perfect and atheists can't be good people at heart has failed to engage me in the talk. Some of you made poor assumptions and posted as a reaction. No one is helped by this.
And that should tell you something about your individual standards for civility. As I said, I accept not every will agree. Admit to yourselves that you didn't bother to get to know me before mischaracterizing my one little statement.
I wrote about a culture that separates itself increasingly from God, and I say the loss of civility and tolerance is not coincidental. I did not say, 'Atheists are bad people' or 'Christians perfectly live up to the high standard of the Bible' or any such thing. I said, as a culture, we suffer for our lack of faith and our distance from God. I am perfectly happy to engage anyone on that topic, so long as you're looking for a conversation, and not looking to put words in my mouth in order to set fire to your uncleverly crafted straw man. Such behavior is, in fact, uncivil.
Perhaps some of us can try again?
I don't believe I made such an assumption Steven. But I really don't think "god" has much to do with it. I see it more as a cultural or personal problem. For example I have been abused while working in customer service, so as a result I go out of my way to be polite and nice to people in those positions. I really don't think religion or lack thereof is a cause.
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I wrote about a culture that separates itself increasingly from God, and I say the loss of civility and tolerance is not coincidental. I did not say, 'Atheists are bad people' or 'Christians perfectly live up to the high standard of the Bible'
By "high standard of the Bible" do you mean slavery and stoning people to death and murdering the children of enemies?
Or do you mean New Testament stuff like going into the Temple and whipping the moneychangers and overturning their tables?
Thats going a bit to far Kortz. There is no need to attack his religious belief. I think we should try and remain civil here.
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Thats going a bit to far Kortz. There is no need to attack his religious belief. I think we should try and remain civil here.I wrote about a culture that separates itself increasingly from God, and I say the loss of civility and tolerance is not coincidental. I did not say, 'Atheists are bad people' or 'Christians perfectly live up to the high standard of the Bible'
By "high standard of the Bible" do you mean slavery and stoning people to death and murdering the children of enemies?
Or do you mean New Testament stuff like going into the Temple and whipping the moneychangers and overturning their tables?
So it's uncivil to talk about what's in the Bible?
I find it amusing that someone would point to the high civil standard of the Bible, when the Old Testament contains some of the worst behavior in Western literature. And in the New Testament, Jesus wasn't always that civil... So what is this high civil standard of the Bible?
And I'll attack religious beliefs all day long if someone tells me that it's the lack of those beliefs that are causing problems.
*facepalm*
I know we haven't heard from the OP in a while, but shouldn't the whole religious societal debate have its own thread? I think it could be a valid and interesting discussion if it doesn't descend into a flame war, and I think the admonitions of civility are commendable.
The OP is new to Pathfinder and new to the Paizo boards.
The polite course of action for folks who want to have a potentially volatile discourse would seem to me to be starting a new thread.
I think it would be obnoxious if a new poster got his thread locked because of a complete thread jack.
just my 2 CP
This thread derailed rather quickly. Thread locked. Please create a new thread or visit the Civil Religious thread if you really feel the need to continue the discussion.