Camping in a Dungeon


Advice


So my players are camping in a dungeon. At least at the end of the last game, that was their intention.

So this dungeon complex is actually an abandoned city buried under another city. Abandoned besides for some kobalts, the dungeon had one purpose: the sorcerer king of the city above kept an umbral dragon trapped there.

The sorcerer was draining power from it, giving him the ability to cast spells without rest. Now that he is dead, no one is drawing power from the trapped dragon. The party found out about it because the cities conquerors noticed the tremors, went down to investigate, and got had.

So now it is on the party to go and do something about this. Unfortunately, to protect itself, the dragon is using his magic along with the wizard's magical trappings to open portals to alien dimensions, filling the complex with monsters (to protect itself until it is strong enough to leave).

At high noon, the party enters the dungeon. They get about 30 minutes into the place and get ambushed by a couple of shadows. These shadows, prior to being destroyed, managed to energy drain the ever living stuff out of the Eidelon and the Druid (party without a cleric).

So at noon-thirty, the party decided to try to bed down where they are so that the druid could memorize a hand full of lesser restorations.

So here is the deal, I know the fifteen minute adventuring day has been defeated by some of the people on this thread, so how do you do it?

Along those same lines, is there official guidelines for the frequency of random encounters? Do those guidelines have stipulations regarding characters sleeping in dangerous locations?

I'd rather the party just abandon the dungeon, heal up, and then try again.


cranewings wrote:
I'd rather the party just abandon the dungeon, heal up, and then try again.

I would go with this and if they are deeper inside the dungeon create "rest rooms": abandon storage rooms which can be easily defended or something the players can hide with low level spells/tricks (e.g. Minor image or pulling a locker in front of the entrance to their rest room.

Gave the player the time to rest. But don't let it come to the 15min-day. :) The balance is the problem. :)


Tryn wrote:
cranewings wrote:
I'd rather the party just abandon the dungeon, heal up, and then try again.

I would go with this and if they are deeper inside the dungeon create "rest rooms": abandon storage rooms which can be easily defended or something the players can hide with low level spells/tricks (e.g. Minor image or pulling a locker in front of the entrance to their rest room.

Gave the player the time to rest. But don't let it come to the 15min-day. :) The balance is the problem. :)

You know, there actually is a rest room. The kobalts are anxious about the dragon and would do anything to help the party get to it. The party just has to get another hour or two deep and they will find the kobalts.

I'm probably just going to beat the hell out of them with encounters until they abandon the dungeon, then come back in guns blazing, looking to finish it in one go. I don't want to TELL them about the kobalts until they find them.


You know that divine casters can prepare their spells once per 24 hours, on a specific hour that is set when ability to cast spells is aquired? If the druid prepared the spells that day he won't be able to regain them until the holy hour next day, unless he left some slots unprepared to fill them later.


Drejk wrote:
You know that divine casters can prepare their spells once per 24 hours, on a specific hour that is set when ability to cast spells is aquired? If the druid prepared the spells that day he won't be able to regain them until the holy hour next day, unless he left some slots unprepared to fill them later.

I think that my players believe if they sit still, they won't have to fight. They don't want to lose the progress they made as they don't dungeon crawl often.


Camping in a dungeon isn't necessarily a bad idea, especially if the PCs can find an out-of-the-way corner that they can easily defend. That's exactly how the monsters operate and it seems to work for them... My personal preference is to make use of secret or concealed doors to find a room that no one is likely to find over the next little while. I usually have my character keep a deck of cards, portable board game or some other means of entertaining oneself for hours. Sitting on your tuft for 20+ hours is mind-numbingly taxing after a fashion.

As for harassing the party with random encounters, as a DM I prefer to take an objective meta-look at the dungeon environment. How big and populated is the dungeon? What type of creatures live nearby and do they have any idea the party is there? If they do, would they care enough to risk encountering them? If no creatures know they're there, is the area the party is bunking in one that is likely to be traversed by the local denizens in a typical day?

Seeing as how the place was, until the party stepped into it, one that was infested with strength-draining undead shadows, it's not a stretch to imagine that nearby monsters are fearful of going anywhere near that area. If the status quo in the dungeon had remained unchanged for a long period of time, with all nearby monsters knowing not to trespass in the shadows' turf, it's entirely possible that the party could stay there for days, weeks or even years before some other creature foolishly dared to set foot in the shadows' former area. If the PCs want to rest and are willing to assume the risk of danger and/or boredom, then let them. Sending grudge monsters to drive them off is uncalled for IMO. If, however, there's a possibility that other monsters might stumble upon the PCs (say in the case of a monster being new to the dungeon, ignorant of the shadows and purposefully exploring the area) then roll a modest chance for a random encounter.

Shadow Lodge

Ambrus wrote:


As for harassing the party with random encounters, as a DM I prefer to take an objective meta-look at the dungeon environment.

...

If the PCs want to rest and are willing to assume the risk of danger and/or boredom, then let them. Sending grudge monsters to drive them off is uncalled for IMO. If, however, there's a possibility that other monsters might stumble upon the PCs (say in the case of a monster being new to the dungeon, ignorant of the shadows and purposefully exploring the area) then roll a modest chance for a random encounter.

I agree with this, with the caveat that just about any 'dangerous' place should probably have baked-in reasons why one couldn't just 'live' there in safety. It is a dungeon, after all. Removing that, and making it 'safe' as soon as all the monsters are dead robs it of some of it's vibrancy.


Your ideas about the dungeon are good ones, thanks.

The specific nature of this dungeon however, is that the rifts were opened to hostile dimensions specifically to make the place dangerous for travelers. The party hasn't been there long enough to see, but the monsters coming through the rifts have a hard time establishing territory because new creatures continue to come through, often killing each other in the process. It is a chaotic landscape. Actually a full third of it is completely overrun by wasps.


If the party is doing the "Stop, drop and camp" tactic (which they probably learned from playing CRPGs)then you are perfectly right to scare them off. This is the reason that old school modules had random encounter tables.

If the party seeks out a relativly safe spot to camp, then give the benefit of the doubt and let them rest.

If they just plop down besides the latest corpses they have just created, then start out by advising them that they hear the sound of a lot of "somethings" moving around nearby and ask them if they are SURE that they want to camp here.

If they don't get the hint, hit them with a small encounter..just enough to disrupt the spellcasters rest and make them start over.

Increase the frequency and strength of the encounters until they decide to move. Rinse and repeat as needed.


Type2Demon wrote:

If the party is doing the "Stop, drop and camp" tactic (which they probably learned from playing CRPGs)then you are perfectly right to scare them off. This is the reason that old school modules had random encounter tables.

If the party seeks out a relativly safe spot to camp, then give the benefit of the doubt and let them rest.

If they just plop down besides the latest corpses they have just created, then start out by advising them that they hear the sound of a lot of "somethings" moving around nearby and ask them if they are SURE that they want to camp here.

If they don't get the hint, hit them with a small encounter..just enough to disrupt the spellcasters rest and make them start over.

Increase the frequency and strength of the encounters until they decide to move. Rinse and repeat as needed.

Is there any official ruling, from an day or edition, that specifies the chance of a random encounter? I'm sure it is out there but I can't find it.

I've been camping in bear country, but I've never seen a bear. Assuming a troll is rarer, encounters with monsters should probably be in terms of 0x% per month of travel.

But right now, the party is in a dangerous dungeon filled full of rifts. The population density is a lot higher. Even still, lets say there are 50 monsters in a 3 square mile area: That is still just one per 320 some square feet. If you stay quiet, it would be totally possible to avoid being discovered - like a hobo in a basketball stadium.


cranewings wrote:
The specific nature of this dungeon however, is that the rifts were opened to hostile dimensions specifically to make the place dangerous for travelers.

Again, I'm tempted to look at the overall situation objectively. As you say, the rifts were opened with the intention of making the place more dangerous for interlopers, but that doesn't mean that all of the myriad creatures who've found themselves unexpectedly shunted into an unfamiliar environment will be aware of, comprehend or agree with the dragon's plan. What the dragon was hoping for and what actually occurs are likely to be very different.

Consider it from the monsters' perspective. You were living your life, pursuing your goals in your home environment when suddenly you were unexpectedly ripped from the world you knew and thrust into a labyrinthine environment of stone corridors and rooms. Assuming you don't immediately lose it and panic, what do you do? You poke around a bit out of curiosity and discover that, at every turn there's another completely alien creature stomping around equally confused and panicked. What is this place, some kind of weird extraplanar prison or zoo? Who knows. Whatever it is, its freaking dangerous and unpleasant. Okay, so what do you do? Easy, you try to figure out where you are and how to get the hell out of it to a place of relative safety. Running around and picking fights with the other denizens isn't likely to further that goal; you're bound to get hurt in doing so and eventually you'll run into something tougher than you and get yourself killed. You don't want to die. Besides, one of these other aliens might know something useful like where the exit is and beating on them isn't likely to get you that information...

So, in my opinion, the monsters are likely exploring the dungeon while either trying to avoid each other or banding together for mutual aid if they can manage it. And they're also probably busy doing the one thing the PCs aren't; trying to leave! So even if some of the monsters encounter the party, if they've a modicum of intelligence they'd be more likely to try avoiding the PCs or to communicate with them rather than attack outright. The advantage in this case lies with the PCs because, unlike all the other monsters in the dungeon, the PCs at least know where they are and how to get out. They can use that information to their advantage...

What I'd expect to happen if the PCs were to try camping out in the dungeon, would be that they might hear a monster occasionally passing somewhere nearby. One or more monsters might approach them to size them up and to find out if they know anything useful about their surroundings. Who knows, some monsters might end up banding together with the party simply for the promise of being shown the way out. Up in the city however it's a completely different story; alien monsters are emerging from the underground in unprecedented numbers! Most are disoriented and as dangerous to the populace as they are to themselves. If the dragon keeps opening portals and the monsters keep escaping the dungeon out into the city above, eventually the authorities are going to have to organize an expeditionary force to go down into the dungeon to find and stop whatever is bringing all these monsters into their fair city. So, in the end, the dragon might end up causing the very scenario he'd foolishly been trying to prevent.

Silly dragon...
;)


Type2Demon wrote:

If the party is doing the "Stop, drop and camp" tactic (which they probably learned from playing CRPGs)then you are perfectly right to scare them off. This is the reason that old school modules had random encounter tables.

If the party seeks out a relativly safe spot to camp, then give the benefit of the doubt and let them rest.

If they just plop down besides the latest corpses they have just created, then start out by advising them that they hear the sound of a lot of "somethings" moving around nearby and ask them if they are SURE that they want to camp here.

If they don't get the hint, hit them with a small encounter..just enough to disrupt the spellcasters rest and make them start over.

Increase the frequency and strength of the encounters until they decide to move. Rinse and repeat as needed.

Divine = get 1 hour a day (set at character creation) that they pray. Even if you attack during that hour, if they immediately drop to there kneel afterward and pray, they can regain spells, at first opportunity.

Wizard/Bard = Need 8 hour rest, but if you attack after they get 2 hour rest, all they need do is go back to sleep and finish the other 6 hours.

So while interruption are a pain. They are manageable now in Pathfinder. As listed on page 218-221 PF phb.


Thanks for the replies. Good thoughts.

I also didn't realize that casters didn't need to sleep to get their spells back. So short of an invisible flying goblin banging two pots together all night, it is impossible to keep casters from regaining their spells?

That kinda sucks.


So do any of the Monsters that have been coming through these rifts have the Scent ability? I think it would be perfectly plausible that a Monster who, instead of competing for hunting grounds, starts migrating towards the surface. Then Monster X heads through a corridor and catches the recent scent of prey and follows it to a door, breaks through the door to get a meal.

I think in this case you just need to make the "random" encounter not so random.


Oliver McShade wrote:

Divine = get 1 hour a day (set at character creation) that they pray. Even if you attack during that hour, if they immediately drop to there kneel afterward and pray, they can regain spells, at first opportunity.

Wizard/Bard = Need 8 hour rest, but if you attack after they get 2 hour rest, all they need do is go back to sleep and finish the other 6 hours.

So while interruption are a pain. They are manageable now in Pathfinder. As listed on page 218-221 PF phb.

You better check the rules on fatigue and exhaustion.

Try going to bed and set your alarm to go off every 2 hours and see how you feel in the morning.
Remember that melee is running around, charging, in armor and swinging a weapon which is the equivalent of running a 100 yard dash while pumping weights.
A day of doing this requires rest and full rest.

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