AC, Saves, skills, Initiative Bonus types


Rules Questions


I was thinking that there seems to be a limited number of bonus types for the different character options. I will list them and my thoughts :

AC

Armor Bonus
Shield Bonus
Natural Armor bonus
Deflection Bonus
Luck Bonus
Inherent Bonus
Circumstance Bonus

Obviously, this list isn't exhaustive and doesn't cover all the other options I.E... saves, skills...etc

I can understand why there should be only a few but a few more couldn't hurt.

Why not add :

Racial Bonus
Class Bonus

and atm I can't think of any more to add.. :)

This would bring more options for magic items and other insances where other bonus's could be added.

Thoughts?


Shoga wrote:


AC

Armor Bonus
Shield Bonus
Natural Armor bonus
Deflection Bonus
Luck Bonus
Inherent Bonus
Circumstance Bonus

Racial Bonus
Class Bonus

and atm I can't think of any more to add.. :)

This would bring more options for magic items and other insances where other bonus's could be added.

Thoughts?

Class bonuses are usually typed already as one of the other types.

Armor, Shield, and Natural Armor are also allowed Enhancement bonuses.

Racial bonus to AC would be Natural Armor (already in the system).

Generally, racial bonuses are untyped and thus stack already. For example, any creature with a swim speed gets a +8 bonus for swim skill. I don't think those are typed bonuses, so it's a 'racial' bonus, but without a type applied, so it stacks with everything.

The issue with adding more types (and btw, Alchemical Bonus was added with the AGP) is that it's an arms race. It already is, since you can get to AC as a Human with magic items are :

9 (Full Plate)
+5 (Enhancement to Armor)
+5 (Tower Shield, may be off on this entry)
+5 (Enhancement to Shield)
+0 (Natural Armor)
+5 (Enhancement to Natural Armor)
+5 (Luck Bonus)
+5 (Deflection Bonus)
+5 (Profane or Sacred Bonus)

44, not including any DEX bonus to AC (which a fighter could get quite high), Circumstance Bonus, and Dodge Bonuses.

So basically, as it is, an AC of 50 is easily attainable at higher levels with some expensive equipment.

The big problem (and I see it in my game all the time) is that if 1 or 2 of the party have 8 or more AC than the rest, then the people with lower AC are pincushions, or the people with high AC are immune to non-touch attacks. Striking a balance with that big a descrepency is hard. It's one reason why they nerfed the Eidelon's armor ability. Because it was unbalancing.


Ah I see..


To put one little thing on what mdt said...

The equipment is expensive based on what level you are when looking at those bonuses. A suit of +5 armor and a +5 shield together are "only" 50,000 gp (ish due to masterworking and original cost of armor/special materials et al)... which at level 20 when you have 880,000 gp in equipment in general (by wealth by level) is only an 1/16th(ish) of your total value. The deflection bonus is another 50k (ring) while the enhancement bonus to NA is also 50k

There isn't any items that give a luck or profane/sacred bonus to ac in the core book however there is rules for pricing them and they would be 50k each too.

So with all of those items you would be looking at 250,000 gp (ish again). That still gives the bonus he lists with 630,000 gp left for whatever else you want.

Not a bad deal really.

Sovereign Court

mdt wrote:

The issue with adding more types (and btw, Alchemical Bonus was added with the AGP) is that it's an arms race. It already is, since you can get to AC as a Human with magic items are :

9 (Full Plate)
+5 (Enhancement to Armor)
+5 (Tower Shield, may be off on this entry)
+5 (Enhancement to Shield)
+0 (Natural Armor)
+5 (Enhancement to Natural Armor)
+5 (Luck Bonus)
+5 (Deflection Bonus)
+5 (Profane or Sacred Bonus)

44, not including any DEX bonus to AC (which a fighter could get quite high), Circumstance Bonus, and Dodge Bonuses.

So basically, as it is, an AC of 50 is easily attainable at higher levels with some expensive equipment.

The big problem (and I see it in my game all the time) is that if 1 or 2 of the party have 8 or more AC than the rest, then the people with lower AC are pincushions, or the people with high AC are immune to non-touch attacks. Striking a balance with that big a descrepency is hard. It's one reason why they nerfed the Eidelon's armor ability. Because it was unbalancing.

Tower Shield is +4, and you forget the Insight bonus (ioun stone)

--Vrock Ness Monster


King of Vrock wrote:


Tower Shield is +4, and you forget the Insight bonus (ioun stone)

--Vrock Ness Monster

Tower Shield +4, Shield Focus +1. Total shield bonus +5.


Umbral Reaver wrote:
King of Vrock wrote:


Tower Shield is +4, and you forget the Insight bonus (ioun stone)

--Vrock Ness Monster

Tower Shield +4, Shield Focus +1. Total shield bonus +5.

Knew there was a way to get a +5 base on a tower shield, just forgot it required the feat. Thanks.

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