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However you can't use Stealth for free (altough even the ruling for this is vague), normally you do it while moving (I don't know if a 5' step is "moving" for that pourpose), furthermore you have to roll Stealth vs Perception...
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying, so correct me if I'm wrong in what I think you're saying, but Stealth doesn't require you to be moving. A Stealth check is simply a Stealth check (i.e. Hiding behind something or being overall generally sneaky and staying out of sight). This, of course, changes with things like Rogue Talents and abilities such as HiPS.
Once again, sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying.
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I think the Stealth Action section is pretty clear. Usually Stealth requires NO action. You can make a Stealth Check standing still behind a pillar if it provides cover.
Normally however most creatures using stealth are trying to move in a stealthy manner and thus it's often done in conjunction with a move action.
Finally if you're using the special option of sniping, you gotta burn a move action after the shot to get back into your cover or concealment and hide.
--Vrocking Chair Quarterback
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
I read this to mean that it is a move action, or can be taken as part of a move action.
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Yes but you don't HAVE to move to use Stealth. Take this classic scenario you know the Evil King's tax collector will be rolling through the forest road at noon on starday. You and your band of merry rogues/rangers can sit in the bushes waiting to ambush the tax collector without having to move at all. You're stationary movement wise (ie you're not using any of your speed to move) until the tax collector is within an appropriate encounter range, which the core rulebook says is 3d6x10 feet for sparse forest. You make your Stealth check and the tax collector makes his Perception to become aware. So far the only one moving at all is the tax collector & his guards walking down the road.
I mean before the Suprise round or the 1st round of the encounter (as determined by the opposed roll) you don't have to use any move actions at all. Weapons could have been ready for any length of time, etc, etc...
HiPS is even easier to use. I can be standing right next to you, fully observed and POOF, I'm all of a sudden hiding in plain sight! As long as you meet the requirements your foe must beat your Stealth roll to see you even if you don't move and he knows what square you're in. Otherwise he's gotta fumble around using the methods for detecting invisible creatures for all intents and purposes.
--Vrock and Awe
To Vrock:
I think you misunderstood my post, I said :
"I read this to mean that it is a move action, or can be taken as part of a move action." Meaning it is a move action (as opposed to standard, swift, etc.) or can be done as part of movement (also a move action).
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To Vrock:
I think you misunderstood my post, I said :
"I read this to mean that it is a move action, or can be taken as part of a move action." Meaning it is a move action (as opposed to standard, swift, etc.) or can be done as part of movement (also a move action).
No I read & comprehended your post exactly as you meant it. You skipped the first sentance of the Action section. "Usually None."
That means you can sit completely still using NO Actions and make a Stealth check as long as you qualify by having cover or concealment (in anything less than Bright light) and are unobserved.
However the majority of the time Stealth is used to Move Silently and Hide so you normally use it as part of your move action.
--School of Vrock
The first sentence is meant to be read with the second:"Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action."
Also if you are standing still waiting, you make 1 stealth check at the beginning, presumably as a move action or part of movement, not every round.
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The first sentence is meant to be read with the second:"Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action."
Also if you are standing still waiting, you make 1 stealth check at the beginning, presumably as a move action or part of movement, not every round.
In my scenario the rogues make Stealth checks and the tax collector & minions makes passive Perception checks. Both groups are not using any actions at all. Once the rolls are made you determine if a suprise round happens or not and then you roll Initiative. Until Initiative is rolled it really doesn't matter what actions have been used.
However if one of the Rogues wishes to remain hiding after combat begins and doesn't move from cover/concealment why does he have to burn a move action unless he actually Moves or Snipes? Yes you may use Stealth as part of your movement but it is a non-action in an of itself unless you Move or Snipe. Technically you could 5 foot step and stealth. A 5 foot step is also a non-action.
As I said, you make a stealth check when you begin hiding and trying to be silent (which would have been as a move action or part of movement, but outside of combat that would be irrelevant), not every round.
EDIT: a 5 foot step is a free action, not a non action
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As I said, you make a stealth check when you begin hiding and trying to be silent (which would have been as a move action or part of movement, but outside of combat that would be irrelevant), not every round.
EDIT: a 5 foot step is a free action, not a non action
Look at the combat chapter's chart...
Huh, you're right. I never noticed that, it was a free action in 3.5.
Hmm...3E then? I know it was a free action at one time. But I don't see why it isn't a free action, other than you can only do it once.
Well, anyways we are both pretty much on the same side of the argument that:
1) you don't have to move to use Stealth
2) you do not have to waste actions to stealth if you are just waiting.
3) 5 ft. step is a non action.
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Indeed...
I've been all over the other Stealth and HiPS threads and some make it soooo complicated to use Stealth and some make Stealth WAY too powerful. I think it's pretty straight forward with a little common sense and the notion that you should let your players do cool stuff. That last part is the hardest to beat into a GM's mindset, even among the best of them. I have to post a sticky note on my screen with that on it, esp when throwing out my most devious BBEG's.