I have never been a fan of writing down every mundane piece of equipment a character possessed either as a Player or a GM. I realize in a dungeon crawl, it becomes very important to know what items are on hand.
"I mean, if we only had a wheelbarrow, that would be something."
And then there is always the gearing up right before the big infiltration. For me, this just brings the game to a screeching halt. What do you think? Do you like the level of detail? Does it give the game verisimilitude? Do shopping sprees offer opportunity for interesting role play? Or is most of this a waste of table time?
Some newer games gloss over equipment. Counting coins is an option you have to add into True20. In my next game, I am considering adopting a rule that the characters have whatever reasonable item they ask for as a default assumption. Instead of listing out the ten foot pole, I will assume they geared up before heading out. If, as a plot device, I want them to be without a particular item, I will offer some kind of reward for this GM fiat. Since I will most likely be using Mutants & Masterminds, Hero Points are made for this sort of thing.
What do you think?
Given the tendency in our games for the GM to be sitting there in disbelief going "You do what with what?!" and one of us pointing out the area on the equipment sheet that shows that we do indeed have such an item...I'd really miss getting to pick equipment myself. Mind you, we've never bothered with the ten foot pole. But that might change in future. Mostly it just offers a chance for creative problem solving when faced with challenges.
That said, we have a detail oriented group with uncanny memorization skills. It wouldn't work for everyone.
What I would suggest is giving them a default list of equipment you assume they have, or a very broad selection of "kits" they can choose from that is assumed to have all the tools necessary for a particular, general job (spelunking kit, criminology kit, etc.)
Or there WILL be that one smartass who will say, "But of course I have a nuclear detonator in my pocket, who doesn't?" (And yes, I guess there could be a hero point usage for that, but still.)
I personally like to list equipment because sometimes people get more creative with the stuff they have than trying to argue whether they really brought a grappling hook with them, but on the other hand, I also like the idea of just assuming folks have what they need for certain situations. It also depends on the system. I like having the specific list in Pathfinder, but when I'm playing Spirit of the Century, I can always just make an Aspect "Suddenly Nuclear Detonator" and go from there.
Aside: My dwarf used a 10-foot-pole--jokes aside about how she stored it (we assumed you could fold it up)--to considerable effect in Crypt of the Everflame. Many people did not die to traps due to judicious 10-foot-pole usage during that adventure. Its importance should never be mocked.
Or there WILL be that one smartass who will say, "But of course I have a nuclear detonator in my pocket, who doesn't?"
I would feel justified in saying, "No, you don't." without offering a Hero Point. If the explosives expert wants to pull out a detonator or two…sure. If the wheel man says he has one, not so much.
Now, if the first guy wants to pay a Hero Point to have a nuclear detonator, I would consider.
I can be pretty fluid as a GM and I guess that can really upset some people. I have not had any players voice concern over this.
Yeah, in a dungeon crawl, a ten foot pole and 50 feet of rope are standard issue given at the entrance.
Considering that my regular gaming group is composed of a bunch of raving MacGyvers, yes, equipment is often detailed carefully in my games. Even a simple sock can be a deadly weapon of destruction that will see my carefully designed encounters turned into shreds.
In fact, trading is often a very important aspect of my games (depending on the circumstances, of course), so the players have a tendency to take away things normally you wouldn't consider treasure. For instance, in our last 3.5 campaign before we made the switch to Pathfinder, the warrior returned several times to a mage's tower (which was supposed to be just a secondary dungeon for a sidequest) in order to take away every single carpet, which he used to craft... capes. Yes, capes made out of carpets. But nothing comes close to the astounding level of industrious detail the party has come to develop in our current campaign in regards to salt trading, which has ended up turning the entire Katapesh prison system into a labour-making apparatus, starting a joint-venture with Night Hags and even capturing an aboleth from the Third Realm of Orv and then leaving it in a pool in order to... it's complicated.
Thing is, the combination of both these things has resulted in a necessity to keep equipment very detailed, both because how much they have is important for me, and because they enjoy knowing exactly what they have.
Or there WILL be that one smartass who will say, "But of course I have a nuclear detonator in my pocket, who doesn't?"I would feel justified in saying, "No, you don't." without offering a Hero Point. If the explosives expert wants to pull out a detonator or two…sure. If the wheel man says he has one, not so much.
Now, if the first guy wants to pay a Hero Point to have a nuclear detonator, I would consider.
I can be pretty fluid as a GM and I guess that can really upset some people. I have not had any players voice concern over this.
Yeah, in a dungeon crawl, a ten foot pole and 50 feet of rope are standard issue given at the entrance.
If your players are happy, you know their needs, and you're not worried about pointless arguments taking up in-game time, then sounds like a good plan.
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What is the Ten Foot Pole?
The Ten Foot Pole is a multiple function tool designed to distance the user from anything dangerous, before it is discerned as such.
It is a Prod: Arlo reached out with with the wooden pole and pushed the idol from its pertch on the Altar. What happened next reduced the pole to the length of an Arrow...only when all the engines of concealed death were done with their repeditive motions did Arlo consider it safe to move forward and collect the prize.
It is a Test Probe: Arlo looked at the pool of black oily water that seemed smeared across the corridor. He reached out to test its depth and the Black oil instantly devoured his stick.
It is a Measuring Stick: The shallow water proved instantly deeper as the ten foot pole reached down toward the bottom that seemed to be meer illusion. Arlo could only wonder what the illusion realy concealed.
In all likelyhood these are just a few of the tasks that the ten foot pole has served. There are likely many more useful tasks to which it can be utilized.
Bridge and ladder immediately jump to mind.
Oh! And how can I forget lever.
I was not suggesting a ten foot pole is not useful.
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I personally like it when a player has some random stuff that comes in handy, just at the right minute. However, I'm also the DM who used to make puzzles with no set answer and give the players a pile of "stuff" to solve it. One player was so surprised he solved one such puzzle he kept requesting Will saves versus illusion.
Perhaps your game will end us as a fun mixture of both, and as long as the players keep being creative, that could be fun.
Granted, if every problem turns into a Gordian Knot, you may want to reconsider.
What is the Ten Foot Pole?
A. A very tall man called Lech.
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For quite a few years now I've made it level dependent -- but mostly money-counting.
In early levels I ask that PCs maintain a count of every silver and copper -- buying ales, staying at the inn, etc. And make them keep an accurate equipment list of the mundane stuff.
But by the time they get a few levels under their belt (mileage differs w/ each Campaign) I don't really care about a handful of GPs or everburning torches or, heck, even 10 ft poles.
. . . .
Oh, and most parties do have a place for storing a 10' pole -- even w/out magic. If your party has an Elf, well, they're elves, they've been walking around with those stuck up their backsides for ages.
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Personally, I would be shocked at the thought of just saying you have it (if it is resonable). Only having what you've thought of getting has a couple of main reasons. First is that it can help the party work together when they need to combine equipment. Second, a player feels rewarded when they have soemthing that is just right for the situation.
As for the ten foot pole, I was always a bigger fan of the collapsable eleven foot pole from the Dugeonscape book.
Personally, I would be shocked at the thought of just saying you have it (if it is resonable). Only having what you've thought of getting has a couple of main reasons. First is that it can help the party work together when they need to combine equipment. Second, a player feels rewarded when they have soemthing that is just right for the situation.
As for the ten foot pole, I was always a bigger fan of the collapsable eleven foot pole from the Dugeonscape book.
i think you must really mean the collapsable twelve foot pole that can be combined with a second collapsable twelve foot pole to get a collapsable twenty two foot pole. that's the only pole i remember from that book.
My group for years handwaived things like equipment. Of course, we had that thingamawatzit. We are adventurers... we are prepared! We also maintained long lists of personal nifty things we liked to carry as well. When Pathfinder came out, we discussed it, and decided to try a true encomberance system. It had been years since we had done this. Maybe since first AD&D. Or maybe never actually in a Dungeons and Dragons game at all. It was a shock how comparatively little could really overweight us quickly. Haversack is usually a first choice magic item. But everyone seems to like the "it must be listed" system now.
Go with the group... It all good.
Greg
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I've gotten into the habit over the years of always putting down some mundane equipment on my character sheet. Stuff like:
extra clothes
backpack
winter blanket or bedroll
belt pouches
water skin
trail rations
candles or torches (or both)
tinder twigs
small metal mirror
50 feet of silk rope
grappling hook
That's just to name a few. And, of course, it depends on my PCs carrying capacity. Eventually, once the character has enough gold, I almost always upgrade to a Handy Haversack, but I still keep all the stuff. Not sure why I do this, but I enjoy it.
And one of these days I just know we'll use that mirror....
Hey, a mirror was the difference between our party living or dying in an encounter with a vampire a few years back....and then there was the time that it saved our butts against a medusa....yeah, the mirror is a vital piece of equipment. :)
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.....and forget that 1000gp or so can buy a TON of useful, well-made mundane equipment.
Exactly! I love that, for maybe a couple hundred gold, you can get all kinds of interesting equipment to carry.
And sometimes, I like to start a character with a mule and pack saddle, just to have something else to carry stuff.
My position on equipment has changed over the years. Back in the day, we didn't know better and treated it as an unskippable part of character creation.
Once I got past that, I switched over to the "if it's reasonable" school. Interestingly apropos to discussion, we did have a discussion once to come to consensus about what was reasonable or not, and the 10' was considered to fall into the "not."
It all changed one adventure set in a siege, where there was a copious but specifically detailed list of what was and was not in the ruined castle for use by the players in defending said outpost, in part to enforce the idea of scarce resources and a lack of backup. I was astounded. Instead of just doing the sort of obvious "okay we have 103 3 inch iron nails: someone start on the caltrops" it turned into an episode of The A-Team. Nothing went unused. Down to the 3 Chickens.
It's like metrical poetry. If you force people to deal within a certain constraint, they become incredibly creative about working within those constraints. I love and am frequently surprised by how players will look for a nail to use their hammer and ten iron spikes on. Now, naturally it also depends on what sort of challenges exist in your game, but it's worth the try.
Why did this thread suddenly remind me of the scene in Dorkness Rising where the monk convinced the DM to give them everything their former party had in a treasure chest?
Yeah, in a dungeon crawl, a ten foot pole and 50 feet of rope are standard issue given at the entrance.
You dare forget the mighty flask of acid? (Although not as important in PF)