I was brushing up on some of the Bestiary monsters today, when I noticed something interesting about the Hydra entry. Unlike it's v3.5 predecessor, nowhere does it say that it gains additional bite attacks or breath weapon attacks for additional heads (whether it gets them from having added hit dice, or by growing them as per its traits).
So is it true that the hydra can only ever bring five bites to bear against its foes, regardless of the number of heads it actually has? Or am I wrong and it is assumed that it gains additional attacks along with every new head?
Also, it is clear that a cryo/pyrohydra gets a breath weapon for EACH HEAD IT HAS. Do they all breath simultaneously (so that the CR 6 monster would do 15d6 damage)? Or do they have to breathe one at a time (essentially negating the 1d4 round wait time limitation)? How is it meant to be adjudicated? How would you run it in your games?
I'm primarily hoping for a developer comment, but others are free to post their interpretations/opinions/thoughts on the matter if they choose.
Generally, for their CR, Hydra are fairly crunchy and their damage output is not that spectacular. I have always seen them done as simultaneous breath attacks for 15d6, so that they earn that CR.
Personally, I would add an attack for each head. It seems obvious that that is the intent, even if it isn't spelled out.
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I was brushing up on some of the Bestiary monsters today, when I noticed something interesting about the Hydra entry. Unlike it's v3.5 predecessor, nowhere does it say that it gains additional bite attacks or breath weapon attacks for additional heads (whether it gets them from having added hit dice, or by growing them as per its traits).
So is it true that the hydra can only ever bring five bites to bear against its foes, regardless of the number of heads it actually has? Or am I wrong and it is assumed that it gains additional attacks along with every new head?
Also, it is clear that a cryo/pyrohydra gets a breath weapon for EACH HEAD IT HAS. Do they all breath simultaneously (so that the CR 6 monster would do 15d6 damage)? Or do they have to breathe one at a time (essentially negating the 1d4 round wait time limitation)? How is it meant to be adjudicated? How would you run it in your games?
I'm primarily hoping for a developer comment, but others are free to post their interpretations/opinions/thoughts on the matter if they choose.
Hydras gain a bite attack for each head. And in the case of a pyrohydra or a cryohydra, each head gains a breath weapon.
While there's nothing in the rules for hydras that blatantly spell out "Each head has a bite attack," it's pretty heavily implied. And it's common sense, I would hope.
The entry for cryohydra/pyrohydra, on the other hand, does explicitly state, "Each of its heads has a breath weapon...". This does mean that a CR 6 pyrohydra could fire off all five of its breath weapons in a single round, but that's not 15d6 points of fire damage. Thats five groups of 3d6 fire damage. Even if it shoots all five of those relatively short cones in the exact same direction, it's still resolved as 5 different 3d6 fire attacks. If something has, say, fire resistance 10, that means on average each breath weapon is going to do .5 damage. And that's 5 different Reflex saves to halve each batch of 3d6 fire damage.
It does mean that a hydra that focuses its breath weapons all in one single spot can inflict a LOT of damage, but only once every 1d4 rounds, and you have multiple chances to reduce that damage with saving throws and resistance and the like. It's scary, yes, but it's supposed to be. And it's supposed to be a monster that you use different tactics on anyway, to tell the truth—spreading out to surround a hydra is a much better tactic than standing in a cone shape in front of it!
I was brushing up on some of the Bestiary monsters today, when I noticed something interesting about the Hydra entry. Unlike it's v3.5 predecessor, nowhere does it say that it gains additional bite attacks or breath weapon attacks for additional heads (whether it gets them from having added hit dice, or by growing them as per its traits).
So is it true that the hydra can only ever bring five bites to bear against its foes, regardless of the number of heads it actually has? Or am I wrong and it is assumed that it gains additional attacks along with every new head?
Also, it is clear that a cryo/pyrohydra gets a breath weapon for EACH HEAD IT HAS. Do they all breath simultaneously (so that the CR 6 monster would do 15d6 damage)? Or do they have to breathe one at a time (essentially negating the 1d4 round wait time limitation)? How is it meant to be adjudicated? How would you run it in your games?
I'm primarily hoping for a developer comment, but others are free to post their interpretations/opinions/thoughts on the matter if they choose.
Hydras gain a bite attack for each head. And in the case of a pyrohydra or a cryohydra, each head gains a breath weapon.
While there's nothing in the rules for hydras that blatantly spell out "Each head has a bite attack," it's pretty heavily implied. And it's common sense, I would hope.
The entry for cryohydra/pyrohydra, on the other hand, does explicitly state, "Each of its heads has a breath weapon...". This does mean that a CR 6 pyrohydra could fire off all five of its breath weapons in a single round, but that's not 15d6 points of fire damage. Thats five groups of 3d6 fire damage. Even if it shoots all five of those relatively short cones in the exact same direction, it's still resolved as 5 different 3d6 fire attacks. If something has, say, fire resistance 10, that means on average each breath weapon is going to do .5 damage. And that's 5 different Reflex saves to halve each batch of 3d6 fire damage.
It does mean that a hydra...
Thank you SO much for the quick response!
One last question: Can some of the hydra's heads choose not to use their breath weapon, effectively allowing it to breathe every round?
In other words, is the 1d4 round recharge rate tracked seperately for each head?
I'm also operating under the assumption that, regardless of how many heads breathe, it is a standard action to use its breath weapon (so no attackign with one head and breathing with the rest). Is that correct?
Sorry, I guess that was two questions. ;P
I remember reading it stating that all heads must breathe if one does. That was in 3.5 though, not sure if Pathfinder is the same
One last question: Can some of the hydra's heads choose not to use their breath weapon, effectively allowing it to breathe every round?In other words, is the 1d4 round recharge rate tracked seperately for each head?
I'm also operating under the assumption that, regardless of how many heads breathe, it is a standard action to use its breath weapon (so no attackign with one head and breathing with the rest). Is that correct?
I have always ran it that the heads can do whatever they want independently, and the 1d4 is per head. I figure it would be more scary to have one or two of the Hydra's heads breathing each round (maybe not in a damage output sense, but in a role-playing sense), while the rest go about biting...
But, after reading this post, it seems I was running it wrong. I thought all the heads acted independently... *sniff*
I like my version of the Hydra better. :)
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Thank you SO much for the quick response!
One last question: Can some of the hydra's heads choose not to use their breath weapon, effectively allowing it to breathe every round?
In other words, is the 1d4 round recharge rate tracked seperately for each head?
I'm also operating under the assumption that, regardless of how many heads breathe, it is a standard action to use its breath weapon (so no attackign with one head and breathing with the rest). Is that correct?
Sorry, I guess that was two questions. ;P
However your GM wants to run it is, of course, the correct answer.
Personally, I'd say that every time a hydra uses its breath weapon, regardless of how many it uses at the time, it has to wait the recharge rounds to use its breath weapon again. That means that it makes the most sense, number crunchwise, for the hydra to ALWAYS use all of its heads, since that gives it the most bang for its buck.
Tracking the recharge rounds per head would get to be too frustrating for me as a GM, so I wouldn't do it. And since breathing a breath weapon is a standard action, whether it breathes with one head or whatever, the other heads can't bite anyway.
It is, in any event, a standard action for a head to breathe.
NOW: Allowing the heads to breathe and bite as they want as part of a full attack is also kinda cool. That lets the hydra maximize his breath attacks and bite attacks per round as far as he wants.
Hydras are weird monsters. It's okay if every GM runs them a little different.
Generally, for their CR, Hydra are fairly crunchy and their damage output is not that spectacular. I have always seen them done as simultaneous breath attacks for 15d6, so that they earn that CR.
Personally, I would add an attack for each head. It seems obvious that that is the intent, even if it isn't spelled out.
hows their damage not that good? in our last game we were fighting one and It hit my barbarian with 5 heads and dropped her from full hps in one round.
Mind you this one was also casting spells but It didnt hit me with those :P
Generally, for their CR, Hydra are fairly crunchy and their damage output is not that spectacular. I have always seen them done as simultaneous breath attacks for 15d6, so that they earn that CR.
Personally, I would add an attack for each head. It seems obvious that that is the intent, even if it isn't spelled out.
hows their damage not that good? in our last game we were fighting one and It hit my barbarian with 5 heads and dropped her from full hps in one round.
Mind you this one was also casting spells but It didnt hit me with those :P
Their attack bonus is low, and they don't hit all that hard.
PRD:5 bites +6 (1d8+3) (CR 4)
A level 4 barbarian will probably have an AC of at least 18
He will probably also have at least 45 hit points. Even if all 5 attacks hit at max damage which is very unlikely he will at most take 40+15=55 points of damage. Even at negative 10 he is still alive, and that is a best case scenario.
The more likely scenario is 2 of the heads hit for about 14 total points of damage. The barbarian rages, and kills the hydra in one full round due to its low AC(15).
it wasn't a normal hydra but I guess the dm buffed it more than I had rallied. sine we were an apl 5 party T this point it hit for about 70+ damage. but imam now thinking it had more than just it's hd raised to make it harder.
but based on what you have said I see they likely won't normally do huge damage
it wasn't a normal hydra but I guess the dm buffed it more than I had rallied. sine we were an apl 5 party T this point it hit for about 70+ damage. but imam now thinking it had more than just it's hd raised to make it harder.
but based on what you have said I see they likely won't normally do huge damage
I am thinking he just ad-hoc'd(ignored the rules) the attack and damage. Even with the advanced template the monster is not all that impressive. I ran one, but did not bother to check the stats. I just remembered how scary it was in 3.5, and my players trounced it. I will probably do a remake. As is, hydras are just not scary anymore.
Thanks again James! :D
Just a question and sorry if this has come up elswhere but..
If the Pyrohydra moves does each head still get a breath attack?
It's a standard action to use its breath weapon, and while each head rolls damage separately, it is a standard action to fire off any number of breath weapons at once. So, yes, if it moves, it still has a standard action to breathe with all of its heads.