Why do everyone assume that the people even LEARNS of a king/queen's death? Most revivals happen in the field. If someone is reincarnated, go to a bigger town and buy a scroll of that lv8 polymorph spell to fix it before coming home.Where's the fun in that?
This is a game in which pretty much ANYTHING can happen. There are, after all, spells called "Wish" and "Miracle." The game mechanics can be interpreted to suit just about any scenario.
Me, I like the scenarios in which actions have consequences, and players need to solve problems creatively. If my PCs tried to sneak their way past their own citizens like that, you can be sure that some gossip would see them in Restov, before & after they used their scroll...and complications would ensue.
They commoners would have to beat the disguise check to notice the PC's. Now if the PC's make no steps to disguise themselves.... :)
I don't really see how this is really a kingmaker issue, it's more the way the game works.
But if it's truly that much of an issue i have a solution and it doesn't change the rules at all, it's only fluff.
1st if a character dies just make it's so he's not TECHNICALLY dead. just that his body is broken and he's dying.
example, leave the player at whatever his negative constitution score was that allowed him to "die". He remains completely unconscious, does not heal, cannot be healed, and is in a permanent coma. The character is effectively "dead". Each day he needs to be tended by a healer (someone with the heal skill), a check is not needed cause like i stated the character is effectively dead anyway. he can be brought back from the brink of death, like bringing the dead back normally. After 20 days of lying in a bed in a coma being kept alive by healers and magic his body finally completely fails and his soul departs and cannot be brought back. I came up with 20 days from the CL per day dead. i don't see how this would really change anything but fluff.
This way actually makes it more realistic. Picture the wounded king fallen in battle all the healers working frantically to keep him alive then one day a knight comes out screaming "THE KING IS DEAD!". how many times in movies you seen this happen ;)
there problem solved and all it took was a change in perspective without even changing the rules.
on another note there's some other things to keep in mind, kings do and did die. it didn't necessarily make the kingdom erupt into cival war! people mourned, a new king arose, and the kingdom moved on noting a new chapter in the kingdoms history. Kings didn't come back from the dead though but with my above way of running it would fix all that. Plus scrolls of raise dead shouldn't be "soul in a jar" to be opened up when needed. I'm not telling you how to run your campaign but clerics or druids are not going to mass produce raise dead scrolls no matter if there in the core book or not. Clerics and druids would only probably ever raise dead on people that shared there religion and beliefs. It's perfectly reasonably to allow curtain players only be brought back by curtain people. And if some players worship NO god then why would any random god bring there soul back, they wouldn't.
I tell my players:
People who can cast raise dead can also cast plane shift. They often do, to be closer to their deity. This is culturally similar to Catholicism's assumption of Mary into Heaven. Those who choose to remain are few, and they often take the attitude of bodhisattva — remaining on earth to help us poor sinners. A scroll of raise dead? Even if you can find a city with a base price that high, you still need to convince the church to give it to you.
Yeah, it's hands-on GMing. But the less the players assume about spell availability, the easier my job is. The spells are out there, but I use every Rule-as-written available to manage access.
I tell my players:
People who can cast raise dead can also cast plane shift. They often do, to be closer to their deity. This is culturally similar to Catholicism's assumption of Mary into Heaven. Those who choose to remain are few, and they often take the attitude of bodhisattva — remaining on earth to help us poor sinners. A scroll of raise dead? Even if you can find a city with a base price that high, you still need to convince the church to give it to you.
Yeah, it's hands-on GMing. But the less the players assume about spell availability, the easier my job is. The spells are out there, but I use every Rule-as-written available to manage access.
I dislike this as a general policy. There will be churches out there that I can see as being generally willing to prostitute their services - perhaps at a mark-up, perhaps with some caveats, perhaps with some hidden costs. But there's always a faith available* to cast raise dead if they need it. Dying's already a pain in the ass, no need for me to extend the pain artificially.
*Assuming, of course, you're talking about a large enough (IE, appropriate spellcaster level) city.
Edit: Abadar, for example, is the perfect example. LN deity of wealth. Why wouldn't he allow his priests to sell their raise dead services if it benefits his church? And I'd like to point out that Gods and Magic refers to the priesthood of Abadar as rather "mercenary about healing magic" (p. 4).
I should clarify:
I extrapolate from the APs that there are only a handful of high level clerics in your average large city. Probably only one or two in a city like Magnimar (one as per the text).
It isn't that these people don't exist, or that scrolls don't exist. It is that they are way further up the curve and harder to obtain.
Coming back from the dead should be an ordeal, in my opinion. YMMV.
I'm certainly not suggesting that raise dead be available at every temple. But if you're in a city with the proper Spellcasting requirement (Magnimar, which you cite, should have Spellcasting services of 7th level spells and lower, for example), and one of these mercenary faiths is around, then I say gopher it. In Magnimar, in my game, you will be able to find a priest of Abadar capable of casting resurrection for the right price.
It's a style-of-play difference then. No harm in that.
For those GMs who do wish to control it, simply crack down on "nameless" spellcasters from the city statblock. They either track the guy down or he doesn't exist. And you can make tracking him down a privilege, not a right. Sometimes these high level casters are busy, out of town, or selfish.
Again, it's just a tactic that I use — I don't think it is the RAW, nor does it contradict the RAW.
It might be harder to find on of those high priced diamonds than it is to find a cleric.
It might be harder to find on of those high priced diamonds than it is to find a cleric.
That's a great point. I would resolve it as the RAW's weekly availability 75% roll, if it's under the city's base price.
Again, this is all just stuff you can do if you want to make death more permanent, but not eliminate raise altogether. Doing that can also mean you have to turn down the CRs a bit so that people don't die with such frequency.
In one campaign I ran (the only campaign I've run that went from 1st to 20th+ level and lasted close to 10 years of real time), in order to make death more permanent, I actually required a Caster Level check from the caster. The DC varied (I believe it started at DC 10, +10 if killed by death magic, with a +1 to the DC for every day that had passed without gentle repose, +2 for each point that the caster's alignment differed from the target's.) It made death and resurrection not so laughably simple, though the DC was still low enough that it favored the PCs returning (especially since they had three clerics in the party at that time.)
I'd assume there's something of a social contract, spoken or otherwise, wherein as long as the King is getting killed by hydra, dragons, and assorted foul monsters of the dark nether in order to protect the kingdom, the populace will probably let the occasional raise slide, almost in a manner that analogizes to a modern acceptance of medicine.
I respect both the cost scarcity of resurrection, espectially with Kingmaker.
We ar eplaying through this campaign now and as the OP described we lost a PC early in the River run Red module (we knew better than to push our luck in the encounter, but we could not help ourselves).
anyways our king died. We had enough money for a Reincarnation, or a resurrection. and we made it clear that we were going to try and do this. but the GM wisely made it difficutl, for mnay of the reasons stated above by other posters.
We raided the treasury (unrest!) we took non-important part of the body and went to the three corners of the known world (our limited known world ie adjacent kingdoms and Brevoy). and pleaded begged and made a fuss.
So rather than just finding a Cleric and paying the fee, we are indebt to two different powers (one of which did not even succeed in the Reincarnation), and have 100 Varnlings sitting in our capital.
and the best we could do was Reincarnation and the King/Baron came back as a Queen/baroness! We have set up an arc for ourselves for at least the next three sessions.
All because the GM said Yes, But!... and death's door revolved and hit us in the butt.
One thing that I am definitely planning on doing and have done before, is if the king in my PCs's kingdom is assasinated, then I am going to have the Assasin plant needles in the body. A set of Quieting needles to be precise, form council of theives. These nasty lil beauts get placed in dead bodies that the assailant believe will likely come back to life. The victim is resurected with needles peircing vital organs, causing extreme pain and agony, and a likely return trip back to the afterlife.
Could also set up a cult of anti-resurrection fanatics in the town, who plant the needles in every 'important' person in the city, especially if the PCs make a habit of resurrecting. It will serve a side purpose of bringing a side quest into play for the PCs to choose to uncover.
That plan is not foolproof. I actually check the guy's body in that game, but my role was not high enough to notice anything. If you players are as thorough then the plot is foiled. I would use an affect similar to the barghest feast spell from spell compendium that makes it very hard to bring someone back to life.