Yeah, needing to wait until half-way through your martial career to get abilities on par with low level casters is kind of unfair to the melee types. I'd advocate the removal of the prerequisites as well as the removal for the need to critical, although I'd be weary to grant them on every hit, perhaps just once per creature per round or something to that effect.
Since many times the enemies that a martial type is going to stand and battle with are going to have good fortitude saves as martial brutes themselves, perhaps allow some of the "critical" abilities to work off of reflex saves as well, giving them a more reliable chance of effect. After all, why bother forcing the save a few more times over the course of the career when an enemy is still going to pass it 9 times out of 10 (perhaps that is a bit of an exgateration...).
Since barbarians rely on brute force for damage perhaps grant one of the abilities every so many barbarian levels, that way when they are doing HP damage that is less than a creatures total HP they are effectually hindering it in some way - it is actually feeling a mechanical effect of losing HP to a martial type. Giving this bonus to barbarians might actually make the class a bit more attractive. As it is I can spin the barbarian flavor on a fighter and have a mechanically better off character.
I've merged them with the strike concept from Bo9S and the "X Assault" feats from the APG and made "Strike Feats" out of them. Note the caveat regarding save DCs for critical activation.
COMBAT FEATS (STRIKES)
As noted in the descriptions, the effects of most strikes can also be added to a confirmed critical hit if you have the Critical Focus feat (q.v.). For strikes that activate on a critical and allow a saving throw, add +2 to the save DC for weapons with a x3 critical multiplier, and +4 to the save DC for weapons with a x4 critical multiplier.
Identification: If you witness a missed strike attempt, a Knowledge (Warfare) check (DC 10 + half the BAB of the initiator) as a free action is sufficient to identify the attempted strike and its effects.
Special: Unless you have the Striking Mastery feat (q.v.), the effects of only one strike can be added to any given attack.
Sources: Strike feats are meant to organize the various “critical” feats from the Pathfinder core rules, the “assault” feats from the Pathfinder Advanced Player’s Guide, and the “martial strikes” from the Tome of Battle into a more or less unified mechanic.
Example: STAGGERING STRIKE (STRIKE)
Benefit: As a standard action, make a single attack. Any opponent with a discernable anatomy that is damaged by this attack must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 10 + half your base attack bonus + your Strength modifier) or be flat-footed until the start of his next turn.
You can use this feat in conjunction with a full attack, but this imposes a -5 penalty on all attacks that round. Multiple hits in a single round can increase the condition from staggered to dazed, and from dazed to stunned.
Special: If you also have the Critical Focus feat, you can cause the effects of this feat to activate whenever you confirm a critical hit, even if the normal conditions have not been fulfilled. You can only apply the effects of one strike to a given hit unless you possess the Striking Mastery feat.
Source: This feat subsumes the the Gorgon’s Fist feat from the Pathfinder core rules; the Dazing Assault and Stunning Assault feats from the Pathfinder Advanced Players Guide; the Staggering Blow feat from Dragon magazine (issue 279); the Staggering Strike feat from Complete Adventurer; the Staggering Critical feat from Drow of the Underdark; Dire Flail Smash feat from Champions of Ruin; and the dazing strike, disrupting blow, hydra slaying strike, white raven hammer, white raven strike, and strike of the broken shield from the Tome of Battle. It also subsumes the Low Blow and Hampering Shot feats from Monte Cook’s Collected Book of Experimental Might (Malhavoc Press).
Another example:
DAUNTING STRIKE (STRIKE)
Benefit: As a standard action, make a single melee attack. Any opponent damaged by this attack must succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + your Bluff skill bonus to demoralize) or be shaken for 1 minute.
You can use this feat as part of a full attack, but doing so imposes a -5 penalty on all attack rolls that round.
Special: If you also have the Critical Focus feat, you can apply the effects of this feat to any confirmed critical hit, even if none of the normal conditions were met. You still cannot add more than one strike effect to a given attack unless you also have the Striking Mastery feat (q.v.).
Source: This feat supersedes the Crusader’s strike of the same name, from the Tome of Battle.
And another one:
SLOWING STRIKE (STRIKE)
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: As a standard action, make a single attack. If this attack damages an opponent with a discernable anatomy, that target’s speed is reduced to 5 ft. for 1 minute. A successful Fortitude save (DC 10 + half your base attack bonus + your Strength modifier) reduces this duration to 1d4 rounds. Against creatures with multiple types of movement, you must choose which movement type to affect. A flying creature affected by this attack must make a Fly check to remain airborne (DC equal to the save DC to reduce the duration), and has its maneuverability reduced by one step.
You can use this feat in conjunction with a full attack, but this imposes a -5 penalty on all attacks that round.
Special: If you also have the Critical Focus feat, you can apply the effects of this feat to any confirmed critical hit, even if none of the normal conditions were met, and the duration lasts until the target recovers all hp damage (a successful Fortitude save at DC 10 + your base attack bonus reduces the duration to 1 minute). You still cannot add more than one strike effect to a given attack unless you also have the Striking Mastery feat (q.v.).
Source: This is the Crippling Critical feat from the Pathfinder Advanced Player’s Guide, altered so as to fit the new Strike feats rules and renamed to avoid confusion with the existing Crippling Strike feat. It also subsumes the Scorpion Style feat from the Pathfinder core rules, and to some extend stands in for the entangling blade, stone vise, and (in conjunction with the Vital Strike feat) crushing vice strikes, from the Tome of Battle.
...that way when they are doing HP damage that is less than a creatures total HP they are effectually hindering it in some way - it is actually feeling a mechanical effect of losing HP to a martial type.
Step 1: Make fatigue and exhaustion apply to mental stats, not just the physical ones.
Step 2: Lose 1/2 hp = fatigued; lose 3/4 = exhausted.Now hp loss counts; and it hurts casters as much as melees.
Barbarians ignore fatigue while raging; ignore exhaustion in a greater rage.
Wow -- I killed the thread. Sorry, Kyrt!
Actually people just hadn't arrived yet. Now the question is: Do they need revised -- now for the sake of brevity and topic I'll go with they do (also for the sake of argument) the question is then what about them doesn't work?
This is just as important as "do they need revised" since if they worked they wouldn't need revised now would they?
So the problem areas:
1. Effect -- Most of what I see is a complaint about "weak effect" that doesn't last long enough. A fair issue in my opinion since they are so late game (possibly another issue really). I wouldn't mind some earlier entry for part of the effects and a "minimum effect" for several of them. A few nastier effects at higher levels doesn't hurt my feelings either.
2. Swingy execution -- After all as mentioned it works best with a weapon that has a huge critical range as opposed to a strong critical effect. Also most things that enable "critical hit when you do (x)" specifically exclude the critical effects from working. That's just silly of course, you spend all this time and energy learning to get a specific effect on a critical and landing reliable critical hits and suddenly you don't get the effect -- that sucks. My fix -- You crit you get the effect. After all if you give up a full attack to take one attack you should get the full effects of that attack.
3. Save DC -- personally I think this part is ok -- the best a spell caster can hope to average on save throws is a 34 at level 20. The critical hit feats have a current "maximum" DC of 30. I would suggest that weapon focus and greater weapon focus should be allowed to help with this as should weapon training. This would make the fighter the undisputed "critical hit monkey" which at least in my opinion he should be. As to what happens if they save I would suggest you should have a minimum effect (as above) and that weapons with a higher critical range shouldn't get high DCs -- instead they should allow multiple effects to ride on a critical -- critical feats useable per critical = critical multiplier -1. So if you are using a battle axe you can activate two critical feats but a rapier can only activate one.
Just my initial thoughts of course.
My only complaint about them is that they arrive too late in the game. I'd love to see them revised so that some of the weaker effects arrive in the level 6-10 range rather than all being for the 11-15 range.
My only complaint about them is that they arrive too late in the game. I'd love to see them revised so that some of the weaker effects arrive in the level 6-10 range rather than all being for the 11-15 range.
See above.
Those are pretty cool Kirth. Would you like to add them to the Pathfinder Database?
Those are pretty cool Kirth. Would you like to add them to the Pathfinder Database?
No, thanks. Because of potential copyright issues, I prefer to keep them for home use only -- and/or the free use of anyone here who likes them.