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Any Medium Size Female, wearing a fur lined biki, makes for a great amazon.
Ranger would work well still you don't need much wisdom to cast ranger spells. Honestly a magus could do well too -- if she puts her level boosts into her Int she'll have 13 by level 7 (when she gets 3rd level spells) 14 by level 10 (when she gets level 4 spells) 15 by level 13 (when she gets level 5 spells) and 16 when she gets level 6 spells (level 16).
The fact she'll have a good will save will help with that low wisdom too.
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I'll second that you should consider a spell-less ranger variant. The Skirmisher from the APG still uses wisdom, so you won't have as many uses of their abilities as a higher wisdom ranger, but you can still use them.
Otherwise, maybe a vanilla fighter who focuses on the Spears and the Bows groups with Weapon Training, or a Mobile Fighter from the APG.
Ranger with the Skirmisher Archetype would work. Instead of spellcasting they get Hunter's tricks, which are akin to Rogue talents or Rage powers.
You could also add other Archetypes to this Ranger variant, such as beastmaster or horse lord.
Or mix Ranger levels with fighter or barbarian.
Or head into Horizon Walker. That would be a good fit too I think.
Amazons, per Greek Mythology, were generally depicted as women warriors specializing in the spear and bow. They were often drawn wearing leather cuirasses (or were naked, but a lot of Greek art is like that and was usually done for aesthetic purposes whether for males or females). They are sometimes depicted on horses.
I.e., whatever combination of vaguely Greek themed fighter or ranger that she (the player) likes. If you use the APG, the Skirmisher archetype for the ranger is a ranger build with no spellcasting. (Ninjaed on that)
If you're going for, say Xena: Warrior Princess style Amazons, they all are... uh... let's say lightly or non-armored, and their preferred weapons include unarmed combat, quarterstaff, small swords, bows, and fighting rods (one in each hand). They are exceptionally good at wilderness survival and very stealthy. I would say fighters, monks, and rangers. Maybe the occasional barbarian but while they seemed able to whip themselves into a frenzy it didn't seem quite their fighting style.
Have fun sawing off one breast to aid in drawing your bow.
Amazons were hardcore.
I'm relatively sure that was only done by the amazon's who were built in such a way that it was required. I doubt the flat (or nearly so) ones did that.Have fun sawing off one breast to aid in drawing your bow.
Amazons were hardcore.
Well obviously if there's nothing in the way then there's no problem, lol.
Feel bad for the poor busty ones though.
With the state of medicine back then I really doubt they were sawing off breasts on a regular basis -- instead they probably just did a tight wrap to hold them down.
Being married to a... well endowed woman I can tell you that it doesn't seem to throw off her ability to use a bow at all.
Have fun sawing off one breast to aid in drawing your bow.
Amazons were hardcore.
Ah you were Watching "Secrets of the Dead = Amazons", about the Greek Legends and there origins.
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Still think any Medium Size Female in a fur biki would be consider an Amazon. Right before they kill you, by sword or bow.
I'm thinking Fighter Archer with maybe a dip into ranger for 2-6 levels. DEFINITELY get some Iron Will and Improved Iron Will.
I would probably go with bow weapon training first, then spear/javelin weapon training next.
And try to invest in some glamered armor so you can pull off that leopard skin bikini.
EDIT:
Maybe go half-elf and put that Skill Focus into Acrobatics and you can act like a Legolas archer. I made a half-elf archer-ranger 10 with Skill Focus Acrobatics and it was loads of fun. Especially if you're not going to go non-spellcaster with the ranger, the multi-classing fighter and ranger will give you tons of feats, but stagger the ranger levels to keep the skill points in the skills you want to max out maxed out.
Also, the Duelist PrC might be neat to use with a short-spear, since you can add Int to AC.
I'm thinking Fighter Archer with maybe a dip into ranger for 2-6 levels. DEFINITELY get some Iron Will and Improved Iron Will.
I would probably go with bow weapon training first, then spear/javelin weapon training next.
And try to invest in some glamered armor so you can pull off that leopard skin bikini.
Back in 2nd Ed I DMed a campaign where a player had an "Amazon" fighter. So that she could fit the minimalist armour theme, I let her have a Bracers of AC that were actually a metallic-look Brassiere of AC.
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I'll second that you should consider a spell-less ranger variant. The Skirmisher from the APG still uses wisdom, so you won't have as many uses of their abilities as a higher wisdom ranger, but you can still use them.
I agree with this and what Death said, Skirmisher ranger for me seems to really capture the idea of the classic amazon.
Have fun sawing off one breast to aid in drawing your bow.
Amazons were hardcore.
Ah you were Watching "Secrets of the Dead = Amazons", about the Greek Legends and there origins.
.....
Still think any Medium Size Female in a fur biki would be consider an Amazon. Right before they kill you, by sword or bow.
Actually, I don't know what that is, just remember the descriptions from an ancient lit class I took.
Very well could be myth, but who knows? The rumor had to come from somewhere.
I think this "cutting off a breast" is nonsense and not to be taken literally. Binding them down to protect them from injury when shooting with a bow seems more plausible - it is for a reason modern archers have some protective equipment, and the women have some special breast protectors as well. Anyone shooting a bow without a proper arm guard will know why these things exist - one mistake, and you will have a souvenir for days. A bandaged breast could easily look like one bandaged for injury, and if the bandage flattened the breast, it could look like cut off if glancing at it (which would be the case in a fight, despite what fantasy art implies - in a real fight, what your enemy does with his weapon is more important than his body).
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Obviously, this character is going to be a physical character, which she's never played before. Barbarian presents itself, but that seems far outside of her typical role playing bailey wick. She did seem intrigued by the idea of an Amazon type fighter, so the question becomes, how best to build an Amazon using these stats.
Typically I see Amazons as Rangers, but we're not going to have any spell casting with that Wisdom. Personally, I'm thinking Barbarian with a Amazon flavor, but I'm curious as to what you think. I do have the Advanced Player's Guide.
Take a look at the "Mobile Fighter" archetype in the APG. I'd go with that and choose a spear of some kind as the weapon of choice, though of course you can always have a bow as a backup weapon. Build up the Spring Attack feat chain as soon as possible and just be an absolutely devastating mobile combatant. Being constantly on the move should help make up for the slightly sub-optimal CON score on a Fighter. Once she gets Rapid Attack at 11th level, she'll be able to dish out full attacks (minus one) on opponents all while rushing around the battlefield. Mobility will help ensure that fewer AoOs land on her and will have been aquired as part of the Spring Attack chain to begin with.
I only say to go with the spear for flavor reasons. There are certainly more effective martial weapons that are available to a character like this, it just depends on how important the aesthetics are to her. For a compromise, the glaive would be an Amazonesque weapon while still imparting some significant advantages over the longspear.
I do not think it would have been a common practice, no. But then again, I do not underestimate out ancestors, and think it might be posable.
For a tribal custom to develop, were this could be seen as a right of passage, could have happened. This would not be any different that circumcision being done on males today, do to some religion believes.
The Amazon culture would have only lasted for a short period, during which it was noted and recored in history, before becoming absorbed into another culture or going extinct.
How such a culture got started is easy. All the men in the city got rounded up as slaves, or when off to war, and got killed by a foreign city. Resulting in a city or nation of women, to survive using any means necessary.
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PS = While Modern medicine during the dark ages was at its worst (due to religions killing anyone with herbal knowledge, many midwives, witch doctors, shawmen, etc.... as witches, pagans, and heretics...because they were a political threat to the religions power base). Before the dark ages, there were some people who had Herbal, medical, and practical knowledge of medicine. There were doctors setting broken bones, using gauze and honey in egyptian cities 4000 year ago. Mayans doctors, drilling holes in people skulls, to releave brain swellings, after people suffered concussions, about 2000 year ago.
Maybe try fighter with Quickdraw, Javelins, Rapid Shot, and Shield Focus. The combo of shield and ranged combat would be able to counter the disadvantages of wearing a fur bikini instead of more traditional armor.
Yeah, the sawing is probably just myth, and maybe art.With the state of medicine back then I really doubt they were sawing off breasts on a regular basis -- instead they probably just did a tight wrap to hold them down.
Being married to a... well endowed woman I can tell you that it doesn't seem to throw off her ability to use a bow at all.
From Wikipedia (and take it with that grain of salt, but the article seems pretty well sourced):
Among Classical Greeks, amazon was given a popular etymology as from a-mazos, "without breast", connected with an etiological tradition that Amazons had their right breast cut off or burnt out, so they would be able to use a bow more freely and throw spears without the physical limitation and obstruction;[7] there is no indication of such a practice in works of art, in which the Amazons are always represented with both breasts, although the right is frequently covered.
So probably a myth, and never in fact in art at all.
The Scythians--where any historical Amazons probably came from--did not do any kind of breast removal that I am aware of.
Also, I think the purported custom wasn't to actually cut off the breast, it was to sear the child's nipple after birth so the breast would never form to begin with.
At any rate, I don't think it's necessary to portray an "amazon", e.g., woman warrior, by having her without a breast unless the player really wants to go that route.
I actually tried making an Amazon base class, with combat styles based on javelin, bow, or longspear, inspired by the Amazon class from Diablo and the Valkyrie from Gauntlet. But it was pretty lame, and might work out better as an archetype of fighter or ranger.
EDIT:
Actually, I just looked it over, and it looks more like a combo of bard and scout with a full BAB, Charisma to AC, no armor, but shield proficiency, a battle-dance skirmish-like ability, and plenty of skills. Also some special abilities called Wiles, that allowed them to use Social Skills in extreme circumstances.
The ranger skirmisher is certainly an attractive option. I have a player in my Council of Thieves campaign going with that option.
That said, with a low Wisdom, you're still undercutting some of the ranger's interesting potential - good perception abilities. There's nothing wrong with that if the favored enemy/terrain sort of bonuses still attract you. But you can still come up with a good amazon concept with the feats a fighter gets. So I would encourage you to not write that off just because the ranger has some good bow bonus feats.
I actually tried making an Amazon base class, with combat styles based on javelin, bow, or longspear, inspired by the Amazon class from Diablo and the Valkyrie from Gauntlet. But it was pretty lame, and might work out better as an archetype of fighter or ranger.
I would say a ranger with the ranged combat style is all that would be needed to reflect what the Diablo Amazon could do. I recall a well built bow build had her firing off arrows at an insanely fast rate, and ranger's wilderness abilities suit that Amazon concept better. (Alternately two-hand combat style for a longspear.)
I actually tried making an Amazon base class, with combat styles based on javelin, bow, or longspear, inspired by the Amazon class from Diablo and the Valkyrie from Gauntlet. But it was pretty lame, and might work out better as an archetype of fighter or ranger.
EDIT:
Actually, I just looked it over, and it looks more like a combo of bard and scout with a full BAB, Charisma to AC, no armor, but shield proficiency, a battle-dance skirmish-like ability, and plenty of skills. Also some special abilities called Wiles, that allowed them to use Social Skills in extreme circumstances.
Color me curious...sounds like an interesting class to me! (^.^)
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
Yea, I am building a Ranger for a campaign that will start next year, and one of the possible builds is a "switch" hitter (Treantmonk's Ranger Guide). Eventually have a composite longbow and a spear, with the Beastmaster and Skirmisher Archetypes.
-- david
Papa.DRB
I would say a ranger with the ranged combat style is all that would be needed to reflect what the Diablo Amazon could do. I recall a well built bow build had her firing off arrows at an insanely fast rate, and ranger's wilderness abilities suit that Amazon concept better. (Alternately two-hand combat style for a longspear.)
I actually tried making an Amazon base class, with combat styles based on javelin, bow, or longspear, inspired by the Amazon class from Diablo and the Valkyrie from Gauntlet. But it was pretty lame, and might work out better as an archetype of fighter or ranger.
EDIT:
Actually, I just looked it over, and it looks more like a combo of bard and scout with a full BAB, Charisma to AC, no armor, but shield proficiency, a battle-dance skirmish-like ability, and plenty of skills. Also some special abilities called Wiles, that allowed them to use Social Skills in extreme circumstances.
Color me curious...sounds like an interesting class to me! (^.^)
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
What I got so far:
AMAZON
BAB: +1
Good Saves: Reflex
Hit Dice: 1d10
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Craft. Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (history, local, nature), Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival, Swim, Use Magic Device.
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Intelligence modifier.
Amazons are proficient in all Simple Weapons, handaxe, longbow, shortbow, shortsword, and throwing axe. Amazons are not proficient in any armor, but they are proficient in Light and Heavy Shields.
LEVEL ABILITY
1. Armor Class Bonus, Battle Dance +1d6
2. Bonus Feat
3. Wiles
4. +1 AC, Evasion
5. Battle Dance +2d6
6. Bonus Feat
7. Wiles
8. +2 AC
9. Battle Dance +3d6
10. Bonus Feat
11. Wiles
12. +3 AC, Improved Evasion
13. Battle Dance +4d6
14. Bonus Feat
15. Wiles
16. +4 AC
17. Battle Dance +5d6
18. Bonus Feat
19. Wiles
20. +5 AC
Bull Rush, Dirty Trick, Disarm, Drag, Feint, Grapple, Overrun, Reposition, Steal, Sunder, Trip.
Bluff. The amazon can Feint in Combat as a swift action.
Diplomacy. The amazon can spend a swift action and make a Diplomacy check opposed by an opponent's Will Save who can understand her. If the Diplomacy check is successful, the opponent will not attack the amazon for 1 round. If the Diplomacy check beats the Will Save by 10 points, the amazon can direct the opponent to attack a target of the amazon’s choice for 1 round.
Handle Animal. The amazon can spend a swift action and make a Handle Animal check opposed by an animal opponent's Will Save. If the Handle Animal check is successful, the opponent will not attack the amazon for 1 round. If the Handle Animal check beats the Will Save by 10 points, the amazon can direct the opponent to attack a target of the amazon’s choice for 1 round. The amazon can also use this ability on a magical beast with an intelligence of 1 or 2, but she takes a -4 penalty to her Handle Animal skill check.
Intimidate. The amazon can spend a swift action and make an Intimidate check against all opponents within 30 feet. Any who fail their Will Save are shaken for a number of rounds equal to the amazon's Charisma bonus (minimum +1).
Perform. The amazon can spend a swift action and make a Perform check to inspire all allies within 30 feet. For every 10 points of the amazon's Perform check, her allies gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saves for a number of rounds equal to the amazon's Charisma bonus (minimum +1).
Sense Motive. As an immediate action, the amazon can make a Sense Motive check opposed the attack roll of an opponent that is adjacent to the amazon. If the Sense Motive check is successful, the opponent's attack roll misses.
Which character class makes for best Amazon: Ranger, followed by Barbarian and Rogue.
What I got so far:
[AMAZON COOLNESS]
Very nice (as always) sir.
I think I see what you mean, though - it needs something else to make it 'pop', but I don't know what else to do that keeps balance and flavor...
Anywhoo, I'll stop derailing the thread now. :)
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
Why not multiclass? Start in ranger switch to fighter at fourth or fifth level. You get some nice extra skill points up front, and archery combat style which fit in with the amazon theme. Less in the theme are favored enemy and terrain which are still useful. Then, when spell casting (which you can't use) comes in, switch to fighter, pick up some quick feats and weapon and armour training.
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Ranger with the Skirmisher Archetype would work. Instead of spellcasting they get Hunter's tricks, which are akin to Rogue talents or Rage powers.
You could also add other Archetypes to this Ranger variant, such as beastmaster or horse lord.
Or mix Ranger levels with fighter or barbarian.
Or head into Horizon Walker. That would be a good fit too I think.
You might also give the Spell-less Ranger in Kobold Quarterly #11 a try. I also have it on pretty good authority that the class will be getting an update with additional ranger talents etc sometime in the more or less near future ;)
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All i can say is, if i was a female ranger, i would like access to those ranger spells. Those are some nice spells to have for simulating some of the effects that i want to have.
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All i can say is, if i was a female ranger, i would like access to those ranger spells. Those are some nice spells to have for simulating some of the effects that i want to have.
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She only has a 6 Wisdom, so she would need a +6 Wisdom boosting item to get 1st and 2nd level spells. (They used the 3d6 in order stat creation method)
Have fun sawing off one breast to aid in drawing your bow.
Amazons were hardcore.
As a couple of other folks have noted, there is no histrocial evidence that this was actually the case (no art, figurines, etc..) that supports the one-breast theory. The theory is based not on historical information but on the assumed meaning of the word amazon. Many believe it to mean without breast, but there are about 30 other possible meanings here.
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Flavorwise I would go with Phalanx soldier from the APG.
I just like the whole tower shield/spear thing, with one of those helms with a horse tail or whatever on it. Greek type armor, you get the idea.
If I were playing it I think I would have her be from Hermea.
Not with stats like that, I wouldn't!
Unless she got 'voted off the island' to stop her clogging up the gene-pool.Mengkare: Hey! I got a really important job for you, miss!
Amazon: Oh, yeah?
Mengkare: Yeah, I um...I need a ...a thing...for ...some project...
Amazon: Ooh! Ooh! I can get that! What is it?
Mengkare: Um, I need a frabulocitor...and a DeLorean flux capacitor.
Amazon: I'll get them for you, oh mighty wise dragon-mentor!
Mengkare: Oh, good, well take your time. Don't hurry back.
forget bow.
shield and javelin, NO-one ever does this for long, few try an dont stick with it.
I would make a fighter, use breast plate and tower shield (something no one ever does either) and take advantage of a bunch of the new shield feats.
have the character take quick draw and rapid shot and she can huck two javelins and if anyone closes on her.. shortsword for that roman legionare feel.
would be interesting and very different.
i dont think breast plate would be too far out of a classically themed amazon.