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An overrun is a "standard action" but can be made "as part of a charge". I don't understand this. Up until now, we've been playing that you can overrun an opponent while charging somebody behind them... but now there's a new feat in the APG called "charge through" which seems to imply that we've been doing it wrong.
Is making a basic overrun charge doing an overrun vs. the target of your charge? Why would you ever do that? If you're overrunning an opponent, how can you be charging them at the same time, since the whole point of an overrun is to get past somebody.
An overrun is a "standard action" but can be made "as part of a charge". I don't understand this. Up until now, we've been playing that you can overrun an opponent while charging somebody behind them... but now there's a new feat in the APG called "charge through" which seems to imply that we've been doing it wrong.
Is making a basic overrun charge doing an overrun vs. the target of your charge? Why would you ever do that? If you're overrunning an opponent, how can you be charging them at the same time, since the whole point of an overrun is to get past somebody.
Overrun can be done as part of a charge if you can satisfy the conditions required to charge (straight, no difficult terrain, etc) and it can also be done with normal movement if you are just trying to get passed someone (if you need to do a little ziging and zagging or to just bust through a dense crowd or menacing bullies).
However you can't overrun multiple opponents in a round because that'd be two standard actions, and other than a charge you can't attack at the end of an overrun.
SO Charge Through lets you potentially overrun two opponents in your route of travel (letting you attack as part of a charge only). Or you can take more complicated movement (difficult terrain, making turns, etc), overrun a single opponent and then attack at the end of it with your standard action for the round. Or you could use your standard action for...a host of other things.
Charge Through isn't worthless, and neither is the basic use of Overrun.
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So Charge Through lets you potentially overrun two opponents in your route of travel (letting you attack as part of a charge only). Or you can take more complicated movement (difficult terrain, making turns, etc), overrun a single opponent and then attack at the end of it with your standard action for the round. Or you could use your standard action for...a host of other things.
Charge Through isn't worthless, and neither is the basic use of Overrun.
Thank you - that makes things much more clear.
I recently recovered from quite the discussion about this topic on the boards recently, lets see if I can help!
Let's talk about Overrun and how its worded. I agree its confusing, but hopefully we can get to the bottom of this. It's a standard action that can be used during your move action to move through an occupied square. Kinda like acrobatics (but that has its own restrictions). You can't attack because you've used all your available actions (move and standard).
During a charge: I think that it is supposed to work like Bull Rush during a charge, but it isn't written exactly the same. It is a standard action that functions in a similar way. That is: you trade the attack at the end of the charge in order to make an overrun attempt at the target. Again, you don't get the attack because you've traded it for the Combat Maneuver attempt. You can read it that you still get an attack, but this creates some really, really unnecessarily complex interactions and I don't believe that was Paizo's intent. [off topic] Interestingly, this reading also means you could only attack and overrun the same target.
Up until now, we've been playing that you can overrun an opponent while charging somebody behind them... but now there's a new feat in the APG called "charge through" which seems to imply that we've been doing it wrong.
Your observation is correct, You currently cannot move, overrun and then charge. You must declare the target of the charge at the beginning of your turn when you declare the Charge. If that target is currently blocked it is not a viable target (unless you have charge through). Sounds like you've been playing as if you had Charge Through. Of course it's been working for you, you can give everyone the charge through feat as a bonus.
Normal Charge
1. Declare Charge vs a valid target
2. Arrive at target
3. Choose to Attack or replace attack with Combat Maneuvers (Bull Rush, Trip, Overrun, etc)
4. Add bonuses and account for penalties
With Charge Through
1. Declare Charge vs blocked opponent (only one blocker)
2. Overrun Blocker
3. Arrive at target
4. Choose to Attack OR replace with Combat Maneuvers
5. Add bonuses and account for penalties
I'm not sure what Herbo is referring to at the end of his post. Charge Through requires the use of a Charge action. You cannot turn or declare a charge into difficult terrain (unless you can move through it). You also do not get an attack on a standard overrun.
Why would you ever do that? If you're overrunning an opponent, how can you be charging them at the same time, since the whole point of an overrun is to get past somebody.
Actually, if you beat the CMD of the creature by 5 or more you knock the creature prone. This is a very powerful side of Overrun that commonly gets overlooked.