WW III: Cyberwar... it has begun?

[0gre]

Ok... a bit of silliness in the title but seriously.

Stuxnet has completely derailed Iran's nuclear capacity, possibly for years, and every indication is it was a targeted attack. US? Israel?

There have been some fairly high profile breaches of the US military networks which resulted in classified strategic plans getting sold on the black market.

Google's pretty much accused China of massive cyber espionage, industrial
and otherwise.

That's just the more high profile stuff. It's a weird wired world we live in.

[Sharoth]

The Cyber war(s) have been going on for a while. Any nation with a hacker and a computer will try to use them against their opponents. The more money that nation has, the more sophiticated the abilites become.

[0gre]

I agree, it's just been ramping up a lot lately.

And this is still the early parts of it.

Oh, I forgot... wikileaks.

[LilithsThrall]

There have been attacks before, but this Assange thing is different in a lot of different ways.

One, it's a far more public thing than we've had before

Two, the counter-attack (by Anonymous) is different

[0gre]

Well to me the whole wiki-leaks thing is smaller than the Stuxnet thing.

Wikileaks seems to be fairly minor, it's definitely pissing some people off but not very strategic.

Stuxnet has derailed Iran as effectively as a bomb. Maybe more.

[Shifty]

It's fascinating stuff, and as long as people are exchanging viruses instead of bullets then I'm all for it.

[Stebehil]

Shifty wrote:

It's fascinating stuff, and as long as people are exchanging viruses instead of bullets then I'm all for it.

+1

[Ambrosia Slaad]

Shifty wrote:

It's fascinating stuff, and as long as people are exchanging viruses instead of bullets then I'm all for it.

It's all fun and games till some semi-autonomous knowbot overclocks your cranial cyberdeck and cooks your adjacent grey matter.

[LilithsThrall]

0gre wrote:

Well to me the whole wiki-leaks thing is smaller than the Stuxnet thing.

Wikileaks seems to be fairly minor, it's definitely pissing some people off but not very strategic.

Stuxnet has derailed Iran as effectively as a bomb. Maybe more.

The love bug crippled the US Department of Defense for about a week. That was 10 years ago.

Stuxnet is just a difference of degree. The Anonymous counterattack is a difference of kind.

[0gre]

DoD was collateral damage in what was a fairly random attack.

Stuxnet was a targeted attack on specific infrastructure of a single entity. There was collateral damage but Stuxnet was as far as I'm aware the biggest strategic attack ever.

The difference is enormous.

The anonymous counter attack is a small group of hackers creating a DDoS using botnets... this has been going on for years.

I was thinking of the actual thefts of data when I referred to wiki-leaks. DDoS attacks by botnets have been going on for years, hacktivism is also a growing thing.

[LilithsThrall]

0gre wrote:

DoD was collateral damage in what was a fairly random attack.

Stuxnet was a targeted attack on specific infrastructure of a single entity. There was collateral damage but Stuxnet was as far as I'm aware the biggest strategic attack ever.

The difference is enormous.

The anonymous counter attack is a small group of hackers creating a DDoS using botnets... this has been going on for years.

I was thinking of the actual thefts of data when I referred to wiki-leaks. DDoS attacks by botnets have been going on for years, hacktivism is also a growing thing.

If you think the actual theft of data is what makes it completely diffrent, again, you're wrong. That would be a difference of degree, not of kind.

And Robert Hanson did far more damange than Manning could ever dream of doing.

[0gre]

Well no, I don't think the theft of data is a different in any big way other than the fact that it's been so high profile.

The Chinese have been siphoning US secrets for years using every method imaginable.

To be honest I kind of think the whole wiki-leaks thing is blown way out of proportion. There have been vastly more damaging military break-ins. From what I've seen the wiki-leaks thing is mostly embarrassing to the US government. The big difference with wiki-leaks is the fact that they publicize their hacks.

At this point I honestly see wiki-leaks as a possible net gain, it makes the military more aware of how vulnerable they are. Of course they will do some horrible knee jerk fixes that will result in very little actual security against real attacks...

[LazarX]

LilithsThrall wrote:

There have been attacks before, but this Assange thing is different in a lot of different ways.

One, it's a far more public thing than we've had before

Two, the counter-attack (by Anonymous) is different

The only thing special about the Wikileaks dispersal is that it's essentially a very large version of the Pentagon Papers that the big powers in charge have not been able to suppress.

There was nothing particurlarly special about how the data was obtained unless you want to count the incredible lack of security and ease in which a Marine private was able to essentially download all of this stuff into a portable hard drive.

[LilithsThrall]

LazarX wrote:

LilithsThrall wrote:

There have been attacks before, but this Assange thing is different in a lot of different ways.

One, it's a far more public thing than we've had before

Two, the counter-attack (by Anonymous) is different

The only thing special about the Wikileaks dispersal is that it's essentially a very large version of the Pentagon Papers that the big powers in charge have not been able to suppress.

There was nothing particurlarly special about how the data was obtained unless you want to count the incredible lack of security and ease in which a Marine private was able to essentially download all of this stuff into a portable hard drive.

I agree that there was nothing special about how the data was obtained. I didn't say there was.

What I said is that the counter-attack (by Anonymous) was/is different.

[Grey Lensman]

Part of the invasion of Georgia by Russia involved the Russian government offering robo-dialers to anyone who wanted them. The programs were set up to spam various Georgian government websites and email addresses.

You too can help attack the enemies of your country even while you sleep!

The big thing with Wikileaks and Anonymous is that it has put a spotlight on this.

[0gre]

Jason Ellis 350 wrote:

The big thing with Wikileaks and Anonymous is that it has put a spotlight on this.

Wikileaks reveals much more about the priorities of our media than anything else.

Embarrass the pentagon? Splash that all over.

Shut down the Iranian Nuclear program for months *yawn*

[LilithsThrall]

0gre wrote:

Jason Ellis 350 wrote:

The big thing with Wikileaks and Anonymous is that it has put a spotlight on this.

Wikileaks reveals much more about the priorities of our media than anything else.

Embarrass the pentagon? Splash that all over.

Shut down the Iranian Nuclear program for months *yawn*

I've heard quite a lot about Stuxnet.