Hey all,
I have heard suggestions for archetypes of the base classes of the APG a few times on here but I was really interested to hear of some that you guys might be interested in.
Who knows, maybe some of the big guys will like what they see and if not we might decide to create some of these archetypes for ourselves.
Anyways here are a few I have either heard suggested or thought of myself:
Alchemist Archetypes:
Gadget maker: replace spells with small items that grant boons and increase in power with level. Creates an opportunity to bring back the artificer for some people also.
Bio-manipulator: replace bombs with an enhanced use of poison. Maybe also allow the creation of unique poisons and diseases for use.
Gun caster: replace bombs, mutagens, and poison with a powerful gun and maybe the ability to cast spells using this gun
Bomb caster: as above with gun except replace mutagen and poison and give the ability to cast spells by throwing a bomb
Inquisitor Archetypes:
Anti-Mage: give them access to the fighter feats for anti casting (spellbreaker, teleport tactician, disruptive) get rid of solo tactics. Replace the bonus on monster checks, bane, and give a bonus to counter spell and using dispel magic.
Guardian: eliminate bane, monster bonus checks, and track. Give them abilities to defend either a given area (such as a city, or a jail) or to defend a person better.
Wanderer: Eliminate solo tactics, and domain powers. Grant them an special mount as the paladin ability.
Cavalier Archetypes:
Siege Master: skilled in the art of crafting and using siege weapons, loses all ride bonuses and replace them with subsequent effects with said weapons and engineering.
Captain: replace all mount abilities with a ship or vessel they can use.
War Lord: replace challenge with a war cry ability usable 3 + Cha mod that cen either intimidate a given number of foes or bolster companions.
Oracle Archetypes:
Fate mystery
Justice Mystery
Forgotten Mystery
Legend Mystery
Unspeakable Mystery
Summoner Archetypes:
(MDT deserves credit for most of these)
Poly-summoner: multiple eidolons but none out at the same time as the other except for as a capstone ability, replace summon monster.
Mechanical Summoner: Eidolon cannot heal damage normally but gains certain construct abilities
Shift Summoner: ability to change eidolon each day to new build type or in combat as a full round action. Replace summons
Witch Archetype:
Winter Witch:
Witch with themed cold spells list.
Good Witch:
Alignment restriction to good and lose all damaging spells, grant special buff abilities and an aura of benevolence
Wicked Witch:
Grant broom stick and cauldron which prepares spells instead of familiar, change spell list to include divine school spells and transmutation spells
A summoner that use the vancian magic system maybe ?
It would make sense, since the summoner is some kind of over-specialized conjurer. :)
A summoner that use the vancian magic system maybe ?
It would make sense, since the summoner is some kind of over-specialized conjurer. :)
hmmmm interesting
probably unlikely due to the second magic system with word magic now though :S
A summoner that use the vancian magic system maybe ?
It would make sense, since the summoner is some kind of over-specialized conjurer. :)
Don't summoners already use a Vancian magic system? Or do you mean replace the eidolon with spells that summon critters? OOOooo! or do you mean replace the eidolon with bound servants and IOUN stones as in Vance's " Rhialto the Marvolous"
Greg
Summoner :
Eidelon Master : Gives up Spell Like Ability to summon monsters. Instead, Eidelon no longer vanishes when summoner asleep/unconscious. Additionally, Eidelon has magic item slots equal to 1/2 Summoner Level.
Summon Master : Gives up Eidelon for boosts to Spell Like Ability (Summon monster & summon nature's ally), longer duration (1 hour per level, one SLA at a time), eidelon/summoner abilities modified to be summoner/summoned monster abilities (like the ones that let the summoner and eidelon switch places, or share hp). Summon spells
I actually did up both the above as a split-class summoner, you made a choice at level 1, unchangeable.
Vermin Master : Similar to Summon Master above, but redoes summon monster/nature's ally to be vermin types (giant spiders, etc). Great for drow.
Undead Master : Similar to Summon master above, but redoes summon monster/nature's ally to be undead types (skeletons, etc). Great for BBEGs.
Summoner :
Eidelon Master : Gives up Spell Like Ability to summon monsters. Instead, Eidelon no longer vanishes when summoner asleep/unconscious. Additionally, Eidelon has magic item slots equal to 1/2 Summoner Level.
Summon Master : Gives up Eidelon for boosts to Spell Like Ability (Summon monster & summon nature's ally), longer duration (1 hour per level, one SLA at a time), eidelon/summoner abilities modified to be summoner/summoned monster abilities (like the ones that let the summoner and eidelon switch places, or share hp). Summon spells
I actually did up both the above as a split-class summoner, you made a choice at level 1, unchangeable.
Vermin Master : Similar to Summon Master above, but redoes summon monster/nature's ally to be vermin types (giant spiders, etc). Great for drow.
Undead Master : Similar to Summon master above, but redoes summon monster/nature's ally to be undead types (skeletons, etc). Great for BBEGs.
Very nice MDT forgot those
Also,
I think the Eidelon should have archetypes as well.
Skill-Monkey :
The skill monkey eidelon is not designed to fight, it is instead designed to assist the summoner in non-combat endeavors. Adjust the base forms STR and CON down by 4 each. Increase the base form's DEX by 2, and the INT by 6. Whenever the chart shows an increase to STR/DEX, instead increase INT/DEX. In addition to the eidelon's base class skills, the Summoner can choose any 5 additional skills and add it to the eidelon's class skill list. Reduce the maximum number of attacks the Eidelon can have to 1/2 the listed value at each level, and reduce the Natural Armor bonuses to 1/2 the listed values at each level.
Also,
I think the Eidelon should have archetypes as well.Skill-Monkey :
The skill monkey eidelon is not designed to fight, it is instead designed to assist the summoner in non-combat endeavors. Adjust the base forms STR and CON down by 4 each. Increase the base form's DEX by 2, and the INT by 6. Whenever the chart shows an increase to STR/DEX, instead increase INT/DEX. In addition to the eidelon's base class skills, the Summoner can choose any 5 additional skills and add it to the eidelon's class skill list. Reduce the maximum number of attacks the Eidelon can have to 1/2 the listed value at each level, and reduce the Natural Armor bonuses to 1/2 the listed values at each level.
hmmmm
i like it as long as it doesn't step on anyone else's niche....
Also,
I think the Eidelon should have archetypes as well.Skill-Monkey :
The skill monkey eidelon is not designed to fight, it is instead designed to assist the summoner in non-combat endeavors. Adjust the base forms STR and CON down by 4 each. Increase the base form's DEX by 2, and the INT by 6. Whenever the chart shows an increase to STR/DEX, instead increase INT/DEX. In addition to the eidelon's base class skills, the Summoner can choose any 5 additional skills and add it to the eidelon's class skill list. Reduce the maximum number of attacks the Eidelon can have to 1/2 the listed value at each level, and reduce the Natural Armor bonuses to 1/2 the listed values at each level.hmmmm
i like it as long as it doesn't step on anyone else's niche....
Some groups there's no-one that wants to be the rogue. Just as the Cleric. This would allow a caster/buffer to take over that role.
We'd need to add a Trapfinding evolution (say 1 point, but requires 10+ INT). Alternately, the eidelon could be a 'face man'. Make it a very attractive humanoid female biped, give it diplomacy, appraise, a few perform skills as class skills.
Here's another one :
A Witcher variant for the Alchemist. (;
You lose Bomb Throwing, but you gain Medium Armor Proficiency and Martial Weapon Proficiency, and your Mutagens give you additional, level-dependent, benefits.
Strength Mutagen :
- ?
- ?
- ?
Constitution Mutagen :
- Fast Healing
- Natural Armor Bonus
- Damage Reduction
Dexterity Mutagen :
- Uncanny Dodge (upgrades into Improved Uncanny Dodge later)
- Deflect Arrow
- Speed upgrade
At higher levels, you can use more than one Mutagen at the same time, and your Mutagens last longer. Your capstone ability is a permanent Mutagen that makes your hairs turn white and your eyes yellow. And you're also sterile.
Or, you can just play an alchemist/fighter or alchemist/ranger... :P
P.S. : I need help with the Strength Mutagen benefits.
A summoner that use the vancian magic system maybe ?
It would make sense, since the summoner is some kind of over-specialized conjurer. :)
Don't summoners already use a Vancian magic system? Or do you mean replace the eidolon with spells that summon critters? OOOooo! or do you mean replace the eidolon with bound servants and IOUN stones as in Vance's " Rhialto the Marvolous"
Greg
Aren't Summoners spontaneous casters ?
I thought they were...
Also,
I think the Eidelon should have archetypes as well.Skill-Monkey :
The skill monkey eidelon is not designed to fight, it is instead designed to assist the summoner in non-combat endeavors. Adjust the base forms STR and CON down by 4 each. Increase the base form's DEX by 2, and the INT by 6. Whenever the chart shows an increase to STR/DEX, instead increase INT/DEX. In addition to the eidelon's base class skills, the Summoner can choose any 5 additional skills and add it to the eidelon's class skill list. Reduce the maximum number of attacks the Eidelon can have to 1/2 the listed value at each level, and reduce the Natural Armor bonuses to 1/2 the listed values at each level.hmmmm
i like it as long as it doesn't step on anyone else's niche....
Some groups there's no-one that wants to be the rogue. Just as the Cleric. This would allow a caster/buffer to take over that role.
We'd need to add a Trapfinding evolution (say 1 point, but requires 10+ INT). Alternately, the eidelon could be a 'face man'. Make it a very attractive humanoid female biped, give it diplomacy, appraise, a few perform skills as class skills.
But when does it get to the point where your eidolon can essentially fill the entire niche of another class (such as the face, or the skill monker) and then also have the summoners spells and buffs plus action economy?
you gotta draw the line somewhere.
But when does it get to the point where your eidolon can essentially fill the entire niche of another class (such as the face, or the skill monker) and then also have the summoners spells and buffs plus action economy?you gotta draw the line somewhere.
No, you don't.
Not really. I really do believe the Eidelon should be versatile to fill any non-caster position. It should never be better than a core class at it. Just as it's not a better fighter than a fighter right now. But it should be an adequate rogue, or face man, or stealth scout or whatever. I'd love for it to have a way to heal. Think about that, one person taking care of the magic side (again, not as well as a wizard does) and also taking the healing slot (again, not as well as the cleric does).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it should duplicate another party member's schtick. I think the option should be there to allow the eidelon to take on a role that no one else wanted to play. It should be the ultimate support character, taking up the slack where needed. Even better, because the Eidelon is mutable, if someone's cleric dies, and they bring in a rogue, the eidelon should be able to mutate at next level to stop being 'skill monkey rogue' and start being 'skill monkey healer', letting the new rogue do most of the rogue chores while it does the healing chores.
Cavlier: A mounted archer set, and an unmounted charging build would be nice for dungeon crawls where the horses won't fit down the hallway.
Cavalier : Flying Mount specialist, who specifically get's a flying mount from a list of them, and some special abilities related to said flying mount. Good for simulating Dragon Rider's if you want to do a dragonlancesque campaign.
Cavalier : Flying Mount specialist, who specifically get's a flying mount from a list of them, and some special abilities related to said flying mount. Good for simulating Dragon Rider's if you want to do a dragonlancesque campaign.
OOooo, nice.
Cavalier : Flying Mount specialist, who specifically get's a flying mount from a list of them, and some special abilities related to said flying mount. Good for simulating Dragon Rider's if you want to do a dragonlancesque campaign.
That would not be more overpowered than the Air Elementalist who gets permanent fly as a bonus class feature (from the APG).
I have heard suggestions for archetypes of the base classes of the APG a few times on here but I was really interested to hear of some that you guys might be interested in.
Who knows, maybe some of the big guys will like what they see and if not we might decide to create some of these archetypes for ourselves.
Don't forget that creating an archetype is one of the rounds of RPG Superstar this year.
Probably anyone who's planning on enter or who has entered already will be hoarding cool archetype ideas at this point, since they don't know if they'll pass the first round(s) and need a good one.
A summoner that use the vancian magic system maybe ?
It would make sense, since the summoner is some kind of over-specialized conjurer. :)
Don't summoners already use a Vancian magic system? Or do you mean replace the eidolon with spells that summon critters? OOOooo! or do you mean replace the eidolon with bound servants and IOUN stones as in Vance's " Rhialto the Marvolous"
Greg
Aren't Summoners spontaneous casters ?
I thought they were...
My mistake then, I thought spontaneous casters were Vancian as well. I thought Vancian refered to the spells known, number of spells per day, the lack of versatility, the "level" of spells type system that is DnD since its inception. It didn't matter if the caster had less known spells but more room to cast them. Even systems like the diabolist and summoner from Paladium fantasy seem to have limited "slots" to use each day.
When I think nonVancian, I think Champions power pools, Shadowrun magic, Mage the Acension, and others of that ilk.
It is probably because I am such a fan of Jack ( I call him Jack cuz his books have been part of my life for so long :P ) that I interpret it that way.
Oh, and I am not trying to be "snarky" in this post. It is how I have always interpreted "Vancian" and that does not mean I am right. You should have heard how I pronounced "integral" for twenty+ years before I heard the correct way :P
Greg
Oh, and back to the topic. I have always been a fan of Paladium summoners. For those familiar with both systems, do you think an archtype could fit more in those lines? Or is that really just some sort of Thrallherd/summoner hybrid?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it should duplicate another party member's schtick. I think the option should be there to allow the eidelon to take on a role that no one else wanted to play. It should be the ultimate support character, taking up the slack where needed. Even better, because the Eidelon is mutable, if someone's cleric dies, and they bring in a rogue, the eidelon should be able to mutate at next level to stop being 'skill monkey rogue' and start being 'skill monkey healer', letting the new rogue do most of the rogue chores while it does the healing chores.
hmmm ok not bad not bad.
What do you propose for classes that kinda dip both ways though?
like a summoner with a bunch of buff spells, haste, ect, then a face or skill monkey eidolon and the bard becomes a little less important.
still though even as I say that i could very well be totally wrong. Definitely some interesting thoughts. Allows for the summoner to fill that gap the party needs while still remaining a fairly viable character.
Also seems to bring in the ability customization that some people scream for in characters in eidolons.
interesante sir, interesante.
I have heard suggestions for archetypes of the base classes of the APG a few times on here but I was really interested to hear of some that you guys might be interested in.
Who knows, maybe some of the big guys will like what they see and if not we might decide to create some of these archetypes for ourselves.
Don't forget that creating an archetype is one of the rounds of RPG Superstar this year.
Probably anyone who's planning on enter or who has entered already will be hoarding cool archetype ideas at this point, since they don't know if they'll pass the first round(s) and need a good one.
well s$#@.
I maybe we should wait to do this hahaha
I know I want to enter.
hmmm ok not bad not bad.What do you propose for classes that kinda dip both ways though?
like a summoner with a bunch of buff spells, haste, ect, then a face or skill monkey eidolon and the bard becomes a little less important.
still though even as I say that i could very well be totally wrong. Definitely some interesting thoughts. Allows for the summoner to fill that gap the party needs while still remaining a fairly viable character.
Also seems to bring in the ability customization that some people scream for in characters in eidolons.
interesante sir, interesante.
Interparty relations are always beyond the rules. So 'not stepping on toes' is really a player group dynamic. You can step on the bard's toes as a wizard, if you want to do that. You can take nothing but buff spells and you have more spells to pop off than the bard. Add in UMD and buy some wands of cure light, and now you're basically duplicating all the bard's major schticks as a wizard, and possibly outdoing him (mainly through having more spells than he does).
Take a magus, and get UMD and some buffing & healing wands, and you're REALLY duplicating the bard, only better, you're casting in heavy armor eventually, hitting harder, and you get offensive spells to boot.
For me, it comes down to the idea that the fact a player can be a jerk using this is not a valid reason to nerf something. That's the same logic that has me being treated as a terrorist at the airport and a criminal by software companies, and leaving me to prove I'm not.