We gamed last night and one encounter came to an abrupt end. The party Druid 11 lvl summoned a Huge Earth elemental adjacent to a CR 11 foe and began to pummel the enemy to dust. Now I'm all for summoning but what happened really got me thinking. Something just didn't sit well with a PC summmoning the incredible hulk. Maybe there should be a REALLY expensive material component to cast the spell. Or the PC should go on some type of quest to qualify to cast it...I'm reaching but that sucker is a 16 HD of terror coming into play! Thoughts.....
It looks like your player cheated and brought in an elder earth elemental (16 hd, CR 11, summon nature's ally 8), not a huge earth elemental (10 hd, CR 7, summon nature's ally 6).
Doesn't have to be cheating - he might have had the wrong critter!
The elementals have three versions that are each huge: huge elementals, greater elementals and elder elementals. He might have looked at the wrong stat block, seen "Huge outsider" and thought that this was his ticket.
Doesn't have to be cheating - he might have had the wrong critter!
The elementals have three versions that are each huge: huge elementals, greater elementals and elder elementals. He might have looked at the wrong stat block, seen "Huge outsider" and thought that this was his ticket.
I'm confused, he's 11th level so he can summon a Large elemental or huge? Also, its a full round to cast it. Does it come into play at the end of the round? Or at the beginning of his next turn? My PC brought it in as a standard action and put that bad boy into play right away on his turn (My mistake)
I'm confused, he's 11th level so he can summon a Large elemental or huge? Also, its a full round to cast it. Does it come into play at the end of the round? Or at the beginning of his next turn? My PC brought it in as a standard action and put that bad boy into play right away on his turn (My mistake)
He can summon a huge one with a 6th level spell. The summoned creature goes into effect "just before" his next turn, meaning the spell is in effect, and the elemental can do it's thing, and he can do whatever he wants in his next turn.
(3.5) Wait until gate then>
Step 1 Call a titan
Step 2 Have said titan gate in some more titans.
Step 3 Dodge whatever the DM throws at you.
I'm confused, he's 11th level so he can summon a Large elemental or huge? Also, its a full round to cast it. Does it come into play at the end of the round? Or at the beginning of his next turn? My PC brought it in as a standard action and put that bad boy into play right away on his turn (My mistake)Doesn't have to be cheating - he might have had the wrong critter!
The elementals have three versions that are each huge: huge elementals, greater elementals and elder elementals. He might have looked at the wrong stat block, seen "Huge outsider" and thought that this was his ticket.
There are ways to summon as a standard action, but they require 3.5 books.
It takes 1 round to summon. That means the monster appears and attacks at the beginning of the next round.If he took augment summon the monster could be quite strong, but it still would not be broken. You may need to check with your player to see exactly what happened.
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I'm confused, he's 11th level so he can summon a Large elemental or huge? Also, its a full round to cast it. Does it come into play at the end of the round? Or at the beginning of his next turn? My PC brought it in as a standard action and put that bad boy into play right away on his turn (My mistake)Doesn't have to be cheating - he might have had the wrong critter!
The elementals have three versions that are each huge: huge elementals, greater elementals and elder elementals. He might have looked at the wrong stat block, seen "Huge outsider" and thought that this was his ticket.
There are ways to summon as a standard action, but they require 3.5 books.
It takes 1 round to summon. That means the monster appears and attacks at the beginning of the next round.
If he took augment summon the monster could be quite strong, but it still would not be broken. You may need to check with your player to see exactly what happened.
You are correct in that the monster takes a full round to summon but the text of the Summon Monster spell (or Nature's Ally) states "The summoned ally appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn." The summoner effectively "gives up" their turn to summon a monster and have it fight for them. They then can act normally on subsequent turns whilst the monster continues pummeling foes to pieces.
In response to the OP, he can summon a huge elemental but there are three types of huge elemental. Huge is the first and weakest type while greater and elder are both still Huge size and considerably stronger. If you check here you can see that the huge elemental is the third from the bottom. There are two stronger versions that are the same size and this is likely where the confusion stems from. The Huge elemental is considerably weaker than the elder entry which might account for the lack of balance you are experiencing. In effect, KaeYoss has the right of it.
I recently finished a high level game with a Conjuration specialist wizard myself. It took some getting used to but I never noticed summoning being overpowered so long as some care was taken whilst doing so. I hope this helps solve the problem you encountered.
I'm confused, he's 11th level so he can summon a Large elemental or huge? Also, its a full round to cast it. Does it come into play at the end of the round? Or at the beginning of his next turn? My PC brought it in as a standard action and put that bad boy into play right away on his turn (My mistake)Doesn't have to be cheating - he might have had the wrong critter!
The elementals have three versions that are each huge: huge elementals, greater elementals and elder elementals. He might have looked at the wrong stat block, seen "Huge outsider" and thought that this was his ticket.
There are ways to summon as a standard action, but they require 3.5 books.
It takes 1 round to summon. That means the monster appears and attacks at the beginning of the next round.
If he took augment summon the monster could be quite strong, but it still would not be broken. You may need to check with your player to see exactly what happened.You are correct in that the monster takes a full round to summon but the text of the Summon Monster spell (or Nature's Ally) states "The summoned ally appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn." The summoner effectively "gives up" their turn to summon a monster and have it fight for them. They then can act normally on subsequent turns whilst the monster continues pummeling foes to pieces.
If you are saying the monster appears and can attack in the same round you start to cast the spell then that is incorrect.
Casting Time 1 round
A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the concentration from the current round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration before the casting is complete, you lose the spell.
That means you the monster appears immediately at the beginning of your next turn before you even take an action.
In other words
Round 1
Turn 1:Summoner starts to cast a spell.
Turn 2:Bad guy goes
Round 2
Before Turn 1:monster appears and does it's thing.
Rules--->It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the spell. The act immediately part is saying that as soon as it does appear it can act. Keep in mind that it can't appear until the spell is complete which won't be until the next round.
Turn 2:Summoner acts
Turn 3:Bad guy acts.
edit:tried to reduce wall of text, and clarify things within a bolded area.
edit2:I need a way to emphasize text within a bolded area <sigh>
There are ways to summon as a standard action, but they require 3.5 books.
Quicken Spell works, and that's in the core rules.
And this may not be helpful, but the summoner class is a PF class and can summon faster.
And I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't anything out there that lets conjurers do this, too.
And I'm also quite sure that totem druids get to summon their totem animals faster.
I'm confused, he's 11th level so he can summon a Large elemental or huge? Also, its a full round to cast it. Does it come into play at the end of the round? Or at the beginning of his next turn? My PC brought it in as a standard action and put that bad boy into play right away on his turn (My mistake)Doesn't have to be cheating - he might have had the wrong critter!
The elementals have three versions that are each huge: huge elementals, greater elementals and elder elementals. He might have looked at the wrong stat block, seen "Huge outsider" and thought that this was his ticket.
Well, he's 11th level, that means he can use summon nature's ally VI, and that means he can summon huge elementals.
The important part to remember is that this means he gets to summon the monsters that are called huge (element) elemental, not any elemental creature that is huge.
As I said: greater and elder elementals also have size category huge, but the spell refers to the elemental category that is actually called huge, not just any one that is huge-sized.