After playing nothing for a while now, I´m preparing a Pathfinder campaign and have been reading the Gamemastery Guide. First of all, it has helped me a lot with world creation, and it´s a great read!
What I didn´t like in 3.5 was the magic item economy and it seems to be present in Pathfinder as well. So I´m thinking I´d like to make a low magic campaign (by decreasing magic item availability but leaving class and spell availability as is). Now I´m a little lost on the question whether it is possible or not with Pathfinder RPG. All I could find concerning guidelines was on page 106, "Reducing Magic with Rules Adjustments":
"If you restrict PC access to magic items, be sure to revisit all other aspects of the game system with which they interact. At lower levels, when magic users are somewhat outshined by weapon wielders, you already have a functionally low-magic game and don´t have to change so much".
Could anyone elaborate on my questions regarding this? Specifically, I´m interested in:
- What counts as "lower levels". Would it be ok, for example, to play up to level 4-5 without changing anything?
- What are "all other aspects of the game with which magic items interact"? I´m not so sure what to rebuild, probably because I don´t know the system so well.
I run low magic games a lot, all that means to me is that there aren't any magic marts were players can go and pick and choose every magic item the want.
I just storyline in reasons for my players to get items, and I choose them as I see fit. Like hey that guy you save knows a powerful wizard, and the wizard is thankful and enchants your weapons with special abilities. Ive also been known give my players spell like abilities or feats or other such things as equivalent things that they normally wouldn't get. you could also look into weapons of legacy. and think about giving your players something like that.
Mostly though all you need to do is make sure that when your players gain some sort of benefit that is the equivalent of the bonus that magic items give them.
- What counts as "lower levels". Would it be ok, for example, to play up to level 4-5 without changing anything?
yes. at 5th level full casters get 3rd level spells and unless the weapon users have magic weapons at that point the casters will leave the melee behind in the dust.
- What are "all other aspects of the game with which magic items interact"? I´m not so sure what to rebuild, probably because I don´t know the system so well.
ALL of them. If you don't know the system that well, don't try to rebuild them. Its something a professional game designer would have trouble doing.
The balance of power between the classes assumes a normal magic level campaign, and is tilted in favor of the magic users. Non magic users are more gear dependent than magic users. Using a low magic campaign hurts non magic users more than magic users, leaving them so far behind as to be almost useless.
its always possible to have a low magic World but a normal magic party. Either the fighting types get heirloom weapons that level up as they do, or they take crafting feats and make the magic items themselves, or the party is just reaaaly lucky at finding troves of ancient treasure, the likes of which modern man has forgotten how to make.
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it can be done and done well but you need to do a few things if you want to pull it off.
1) Masterwork weapons that let bonuses stack like magic weapons need to be allowed.
2) Restrict how easy it is for casters to gain spells.
3) Be very careful with monsters, with out magic items especially weapons CR's can end up way off.
If it's the magic mart thing that bothers you, then give your players access to more "cool and believable" ways to get magic items. The legacy items idea is a cool one. Giving the players the ability to craft their own items is pretty cool as well. Maybe give everyone an extra skill point that has to be used in a Craft skill, and then giving Master Craftsman and the related Magical Crafting skill for free at a certain level.
It's important to consider that Wizards lose a TON of spell availability without finding or buying scrolls or getting access to new spellbooks.
Making it "low magic" without restructuring the whole system might simply mean finding a more interesting way for your players to gain the items they need. Maybe there isn't a ton of stuff out there in your world, but the stuff the players need to be at the right power level needs to be available of the whole game system becomes a lot more unstable.
By definition, from the CRB (Core Rule Book) page 400, a low-fanasy game is a game in which PCs have about 50% of the suggested WBL (Wealth By Level).
I' currently running a low-fantasy game, and here are my suggestions to you :
- Make sure that everyone is OK with the idea of playing a low-fantasy game.
- Start at 1st level, and use the slow or medium character advancement from table 3-1, page 30 of the CRB.
- Know your PCs (Player Characters) well, so that you won't throw at them challenges that they can't handle. You'll have to use monsters with a Challenge Rating (CR) below the CR that you normally use in a standard game. At low-levels, you don't have to make much changes, but the higher the PCs' levels are, the more you need to be careful.
- If one or more of your players want to play a full-caster, you should nerf the classes they want to play. For example, I house-ruled that wizards don't learn two new spells every level: they need to buy or find every spells that they know. Since they need to use their gold for purchasing new spells, they will end up with less magic items than the non-caster classes, and this will balance the different classes a little. Also, make magical items that enhance magical power (such as headband of intellect and stuff like that) more rare than magical items that enhance physical attributes (like gauntlets of ogre power). If you think that a spell is too powerful, augment his casting time and/or his material cost. Again, you don't have to make much changes at low-levels, but you need to be careful at higher levels.
- To keep the game fun at low-level, give some semi-magical weapons and armors to your PCs. When you don't have any magical weapon, this non-magical masterwork dark steel greatsword, who deals +1 electricity damage on every hit, is more useful than in a normal-fantasy game, were everyone is running around with their +2 magic weapons.
- Ban the magical item creation feats, or nerf them at least.
- Magic shops can exist in big cities, but you should limit/restrict the magic items that are avaible.
- Have fun ! :)
Another problem is healing, and access to.
If by low-magic you mean you don't want a preponderance of Magic Weapons, Armour and Items around then you may find parties stopping more often to rest as the clerics/druids run out of healing fuel (a lot of parties in standard campaigns tend to get Heaing Belts and Wands of Cure Light/Vigour-line spells to use for 'out of combat' healing up)
PF Clerics got a large boost to healing power to keep them going, but there is still a limit there. 3rd level wizards get a lot of options, but if the rest of the game is low-magic in terms of items, then the ability to max out the amount of spells they can cast is also limited and you'll likely find the "leave them for dust" comment isn't as valid as you might think. Not many Wizards I know took nothing but Fireball for their 3rd level slots, for example, and they can only use them so many times.
A sword, however, will keep on swining till the fighter breathes no more...
So yeah, I tend to find the biggest issue with low-magic is sorting out the healing.
The secret is playtesting. Run a sample average encounter with the kind of party you expect your players to use at 1st level, 3rd level and 5th level (and beyond if you intend to go higher) and track how much resource they reasonably use.
Myself, I am re-writing PF for use in a Western-era tech level campaign, and magic has all but gone to be replaced by technology. Not going full steampunk with it, just re-theming the classes appropriately, and have decided that I'm going to have to use similar harsh-healing rules to systems like Shadowrun. Again, this is part of the game you run, and should tailor the player experience appropriately anyway. Low-magic = low healing = high risk. You'll probably find your players adapt to this and equip/approach/plan accordingly.
You'd be amazed how useful the common equipment list actually can be.
Oh, I almost forgot, every magic items avaible in magic items shops cost twice the normal price (including potions and scrolls). With that house rule, it's really easy to keep your PCs at 50% WBL.
Oh, I almost forgot, every magic items avaible in magic items shops cost twice the normal price (including potions and scrolls). With that house rule, it's really easy to keep your PCs at 50% WBL.
Are you also reducing the %age price received when selling magic items in shops as well? Asking, cause I know a few canny players who churn out easy to produce low level items and sell them back for standard rulebook price in a high-price environment (50% of 200% is 100%, when cost only 50% to make, if you see what I'm getting at)... thus making a healthy profit enough to buy higher-priced items anyway.
Oh, I almost forgot, every magic items avaible in magic items shops cost twice the normal price (including potions and scrolls). With that house rule, it's really easy to keep your PCs at 50% WBL.Are you also reducing the %age price received when selling magic items in shops as well? Asking, cause I know a few canny players who churn out easy to produce low level items and sell them back for standard rulebook price in a high-price environment (50% of 200% is 100%, when cost only 50% to make, if you see what I'm getting at)... thus making a healthy profit enough to buy higher-priced items anyway.
In my low-fantasy game, magic items are sold at 50% base price, so it's 25% of the buying's price, since the buying price is 200% base price. In other words, your PCs will want to keep the magic items you give them, unless those are useless for them or if they really, really want those shiny gauntlets of ogre power at the magic shop. :)
In my first post, I suggested to ban or nerf item creation feats. Here's how you can nerf Craft Magic Arms and Armors :
You can create a magic weapon or armor with a maximum magic bonus of +1 per 5 level (instead of +1 per 3 level). You could also modify the creation's cost (creation's cost = base price instead of 50% base price).
Remember, using 50% WBL is a BIG MODIFICATION of the standard game, so you'll need to be extra-careful with spell-casting classes. You'll need to make a lot of house-rules to keep the balance between classes. The following classes can be used in a low-fantasy game without any modifications :
Barbarian
Bard (he's a spellcaster, but he uses his spells to buff the whole party)
Cavalier
Fighter
Monk
Rogue
Cleric and Druid could work fine as team players or party's healers, like the bard. However, if they're using all their spells only on themselves, that could become a problem, because they would outshine the fighting classes in their own domain. Also, higher level summons could perform better than the fighting classes. You could house-rule that summon monster IV to VI take 2 round to cast, while summon monster VII to XI take 3 round to cast. Keep an eye on the planar binding and the planar ally spells too.
So I´m thinking I´d like to make a low magic campaign (by decreasing magic item availability but leaving class and spell availability as is).
IMHO, you can't really make this plan work beyond very low levels without a fair bit of extra fiddling, because paradoxically what that decision does (again, without extra fiddling) is make the caster classes a lot more powerful, relative to the non-caster classes, than they already are.
Or to put it another way, a "low magic ITEM" game and a "low magic" game are very different things; a "low magic item" game actually empowers the most magical classes a lot.
So I´m thinking I´d like to make a low magic campaign (by decreasing magic item availability but leaving class and spell availability as is).IMHO, you can't really make this plan work beyond very low levels without a fair bit of extra fiddling, because paradoxically what that decision does (again, without extra fiddling) is make the caster classes a lot more powerful, relative to the non-caster classes, than they already are.
Or to put it another way, a "low magic ITEM" game and a "low magic" game are very different things; a "low magic item" game actually empowers the most magical classes a lot.
I agree, you can't play a balanced low-fantasy game (50% WBL) without extra fiddling, and it's better to end the game around 10th-level too. It's a lot of work, but it can be rewarding.
Would also just like to add that low magic campaigns work best against humanoid protaganists with class levels rather than hideous abominations, arch devils and dragons. Some of the lesser-ability possessing Magical beasts are perfectly balanced for a low-magic party, though be careful of giant vermin... which have ridiculous to hit and damage bonuses the party may not be able to easily cope with.
Avoid anything with damage reduction more than a simple, non-magical metal such as silver or adamantium. Certainly avoid anything that requires magic to overcome (alignment is usually fine in small doses, though only certain classes can do that naturally, so try to avoid having a demon-heavy set of bad guys if your party don't have clerics, paladins or monks)
Again, balance is key, and be prepared to tone back the actual fantasy element of the antagonists. Failing that, the 'young' template is also a good way of putting something more exotic in without suddenly putting an invincible foe in their midst. Even something as 'everyday' as a Bullette can rip through a party at its CR with only a few good rolls.