Hello all,
So in my home game my players and I have agreed that the two weapon fighting feat chain needed to be changed.
Its is now a scaling feat, with you taking two-weapon fighting once then at the improved and greater version lvl intervals you gain another attack.
We like it, we think it works and we are not here to debt that,
But we do need some help in the following,
A) The double slice feat, my players are not limited to using half their str. with an off hand weapon. We don't want to necessarily toss the feat but change it to keep it and give it new substance.
B) The ranger's two-weapon fighting style needs to be updated as well, was hoping to get some insight into that.
Couple of other notes about our game.
1. We allow 3rd party content with review
2. We allow dex to damage, usually using the Deadly agility feat.
3. We allow older 3.0/3.5 content within reason
Thank you for any advice you can give
My personal thoughts:
1) Don't replace double slice there is no need. You're already giving everyone the benefit for free, just forget about it.
2) Help the ranger by requiring that though you only expend one feat to get TWF, ITWF, and GTWF you must still qualify for the feats regularly. I.e. you need 19 dex to get GTWF along with BAB 11. The ranger however just needs to hit BAB 11, being able to ignore the other requirements.
Consider adding two weapon defense, improved/two weapon-feint, break guard, or other feats that require Two Weapon Fighting as a prerequisite to replace the ones you've removed.
1. If you really want to change double slice, then just have it apply to power attack instead.
Have it so that characters get full str, but 1/2 power attack. Simple solution.
2. Eh. Rangers still get a lot of free feats. Even with these changes, and even if you made double slice obsolete, then they would still have 4 other feats (improved shield bash, quick draw, TWF rend, TWF defense). That should be enough to fill out their combat style. At bit wonky by the end, but I mostly worry about levels 1-10 for this, so you still have enough options there (TWF, improved shield bash, TWF rend- a decent set of feats, really).
My personal thoughts:
1) Don't replace double slice there is no need. You're already giving everyone the benefit for free, just forget about it.
2) Help the ranger by requiring that though you only expend one feat to get TWF, ITWF, and GTWF you must still qualify for the feats regularly. I.e. you need 19 dex to get GTWF along with BAB 11. The ranger however just needs to hit BAB 11, being able to ignore the other requirements.Consider adding two weapon defense, improved/two weapon-feint, break guard, or other feats that require Two Weapon Fighting as a prerequisite to replace the ones you've removed.
You got a good point there about still needing to qualify hitting the appropriate dex requirement, but one of the main reasons I did this was to give two weapon fighting potential to other classes as well, like the paladin, barbarian, bard, etc.
I found a few feats that might look good on a two weapon fighting ranger list.
1) Oversized Two Weapon fighting, DND Player's Handbook II
2) Two Weapon Pounce, DND Player's Handbook II
3) Hammer the blow, Ultimate Combat
Thank you for your thoughts this is helping
1. If you really want to change double slice, then just have it apply to power attack instead.
Have it so that characters get full str, but 1/2 power attack. Simple solution.
2. Eh. Rangers still get a lot of free feats. Even with these changes, and even if you made double slice obsolete, then they would still have 4 other feats (improved shield bash, quick draw, TWF rend, TWF defense). That should be enough to fill out their combat style. At bit wonky by the end, but I mostly worry about levels 1-10 for this, so you still have enough options there (TWF, improved shield bash, TWF rend- a decent set of feats, really).
I could do that with power attack, if we don't decide to just kick double slice all together. It is a silly feat tax.
I want two weapon fighting to be enticing like two handers are. I will say that I don't like the idea of the shield bashing feat trees in the two weapon fighting style. It has it's own style in the APG already. I want it to be it's own thing.
Removing the dex requirement from Two Weapon Fighting is a mistake IMO. You have now removed the best part of being Ranger or Slayer and handed it to everyone.
The reason why they were good at it was they could be strength based combatants that didn't need to worry about trying to get dex to damage or anything else. You've kind of removed the point of there being a TWF combat style feat line with removing the dex requirement.
You've also set things up such that TWF fighting and dex to be dominant over strength and using a two-handed weapon.
I personally think those are big mistakes. While TWF does need help to bring it closer to using a two-handed weapon as a fighting style, I fear you are going too far so as to make THW fighting style inferior.
Don't forget balance.
If you make TWF so good that it's the only way to hit the top of the DPS charts then EVERYBODY will do it. TWF barbarians, TWF paladins, TWF gunslingers, TWF titan maulers, TWF dwarven wizards, whatever.
Are you also getting rid of feat taxes and making the important feats available to everybody for EVERY style of fighting? 2Hers, crit-fishers, CMB specialists, etc.?
If not, then everybody in your game is going to be a TWFer.